Thread: Web developing languages

So wait, what's so bad about PHP? Ignoring the coder being bad, what's wrong the language as a whole?

O_o

I have maintained my own earlier code, and I did do some debugging work on some "Drupal" components, but I haven't worked seriously with PHP since PHP4 was a thing. Even then, I don't recall any one thing that turns me off of the PHP language. For me, the problem with PHP was the unfortunate ammount of "hoop jumpery" in coding through the languages layers of quirk. I felt like my time was spent having to argue with the language just to cleanly express my ideas.

*shrug*

I want my tools to work for me; I don't want to fight my tools.

Soma

It embeds into HTML when I need it to and it connects to the Java server I have running as I need it to.

o_O

You are running a Java HTTP server? In the foul name of Yog Sothoth, why?

But that's because it requires header() semantics [...] just PHP, is it?

O_o

I'm glad you asked.

Anyone seriously considering developing web applications, without using an existing framework, living on a sever should at least skim the RFC for HTTP and MIME stuff.

Soma

I will take a gander at the MIME and RFC stuff but we both know you'd be like 50x sexier if you directly answered my question

O_o

Okay. I'll give you a simple answer just this once.

Wait.

50x sexier

Code:

50 * 0 == 0

Nevermind...

Soma ;_;

Originally Posted by whiteflags

I'm not! The thread in question is found here. I wish phantomotap was making it up.

Well, there you go. Going back to a previous discussion, that just goes to show how lazy programmers aren't exclusive to PHP.

Originally Posted by ItzBlue

So... i'm assuming that PHP is a no-no?

No. It's a good language to start. My only annoyance with it is that PHP is strictly a web development language. After you get into PHP, make a point of learning a few alternatives, like Python with Django, C# with ASP.Net and Ruby on Rails. All alternatives sit on top of general purposes languages (python, c# and ruby) that will allow you to code web apps, business applications and games, all on the same programming language.

So... i'm assuming that PHP is a no-no?

O_o

(I didn't see the comment earlier.)

Look. We can give you advice. We can throw our opinions at you.

At the end of the day, you'll be better served if you just look around at the common web languages.

Your reflexive opinion is strangely important; if you think you could have a good feel for a language, you are probably correct.

You should really only force a language on yourself if you know you are going to be using the language for another reason.

You should definitely just stick with PHP if, for example, you know of an application written in PHP you'd like to use as you learn. If you know you'll be taking classes with Python, you should just start with the Python language.

Soma

Originally Posted by phantomotap

OOnce upon a thread, Elysia offered that he doesn't care about relying on undefined behavior if the code looks better.

Don't bring me into this! I am not a mindless drone! >_<

Originally Posted by phantomotap

Elysia posted code using multiple reserved identifiers. (The code specifically used a leading underscore followed by an uppercase letter.) The fact that using reserved identifiers in the scope where the identifier is reserved is undefined behavior was pointed out to Elysia by a couple of people. The response from Elysia was essentially "I don't care. I like the look of the code more than I would by using an allowed identifier.".

This was not production code, so yeah, I think I am entitled to do what I want in my toy projects.
And it's not laziness. It's called code style.
Now let's stop using me as a pig to lay all blame on.

Now, to get to the topic at hand.
There are essentially two ways of doing web development (that I know of):

Client + REST calls to server
Client + server-side scripting

Mind you, I've had very little experience with web development, but this is what I feel or think works.

For client + rest, the client tries to just display an interface and sends requests to the server to the processing. The client would obviously be HTML + javascript (though I'd try my hands on Microsoft's typescript which is a type-safe javascript which compiles to javascript). I'd probably do the server in C++ since I know a good framework for handling rest calls. In this model, javascript and html pages dominate and the pages sends requests to the server usually dynamically via javascript. It can also be done using posts/get and forms.

For client + server-side scripting, the client is done in HTML + javascript as before. The server is done in a server-side scripting language such as asp.net. I like asp.net over PHP because I know asp.net leverages C# which is type safe, good support for OOP and RAII-style cleanup. Maybe PHP has evolved with the years, but back when I did it, php didn't have much of this. I may be wrong here, so check your facts! In this model, every action leads to a call to the server which generates html and sends it back to the client. There is probably less javascript involved here.

That's all I know. Now go wild out there and try things out. That's the best way to find something that works for you.

Originally Posted by Elysia

Mind you, I've had very little experience with web development

It's for this reasons that it would have been better if you didn't reply. It is full of incongruences.

1) You are not a mindless drone if people speak your name.
2) You are not a pig if people blame you of something.
3) Code style does not trump undefined behavior.
4) REST is an architectural style. Not a development technology.
5) REST isn't an alternative to server-side scripting. REST is applied to the development of web services. Not Web applications.

Originally Posted by Mario F.

It's for this reasons that it would have been better if you didn't reply. It is full of incongruences.

It's better if you did not reply because everything that comes out of your mouth is an insult, so I will ignore you.

Also, someone new to a specific forum is not putting him/herself in good shoes when alienating some people of a community.