Thread: Contract Cheating

Originally Posted by jim mcnamara

cboard.cprogramming.com is listed #7 on list of sites/forums that actively support "contract cheating".

The heading of that list reads "List of sites associated with 'contract cheating'". What does "associated" mean? If we interpret it to mean "actively support contract cheating", then that list is incorrect, since the homework guidelines strongly discourage members from doing other people's homework.

If we interpret it to mean "support contract cheating", then including cboard on that list is reasonable: a student can use PMs to form a contract with some member to complete the student's homework, and PMs are not monitored. (Or so we would like you to believe )

Originally Posted by jim mcnamara

If I understand correctly, the list is used to aid in searching for cheating, and the list is actively circulated.

If you are talking about cheating in general, then that is fine. It certainly is the case that students attempt to use cboard to cheat, and they may succeed. It is to our advantage for such students to get punished for cheating as we can then help those who really take the effort to learn.

Originally Posted by jim mcnamara

Maybe one of the mods here can contact Robert Clarke et al. And see if a rule change here is enforceable or even worth the effort.

What rule change do you suggest? We already have a homework policy.

I went to university, I loved it, and I would never trash the concept, but a formal institution should not never, never be touted as the only place to learn*. These people obviously would prefer to restrict everyone's educational opportunities and have not given any thought to the potential consequences of their witch hunt. The idea that cboard is some kind of hotspot where kids come to pay for an essay or assignment or whatever is beyond ridiculous. Anyone who wants to spend ten minutes looking around will figure that out.

You might as well throw your mind in the garbage as take this tish seriously. And I bet most professors would agree with what I am saying. But there are crackpots in academia -- perhaps these busybodies are some of them? Surely their (paid) time would be better spent in more serious pursuits (unless they are the kind of academics not taken seriously by their peers, and so are left with nothing better to do).

Cboard is a great resource. Not *everyone* learning here is a college student, and not everyone who comes here looking for advice, or flat out answers and solutions, is a CS 101 student in disguise. If a university (or all the universities) want to provide all the funding, staff, and other resources, then they can call all the shots, and hopefully try and make up for the corresponding harm done to the education of people who aren't in university (like, we can't discuss programming on the web now without being overseen by a board of regents?). In all honesty, if anything like that comes to pass I WILL SUE EVERYONE INVOLVED IN A COURT OF LAW. But I presume/hope that is not the real intent (although it's hard to say what the purpose of the list is otherwise...)

Originally Posted by brewbuck

Occassionally, some bonehead posts an entire solution and is appropriately scolded.

I've had this happen more than once and I still don't care and don't agree with your premises or your interpretation. I do understand why the moderators should not make it a practice. You know what would really ruin the board -- forcing the moderators to tell people they have crossed the line by divulging too much information about c programming, on an advice forum for c programmers. I've never been offered for money** and usually ignore (that kind of) pm because I don't see a need for secrecy.



* I also would never deny that it was a tremendous privilege to go to school, and that universities are undeniably places of privilege. This is flat out disgusting, elitist crap and I also honestly hope they carpool off a bridge somewhere. Scum.
** now that would be funny

I've heard it argued that the rampant cheating in CS devalues the meaning of the CS degree for those who actually worked hard for it.

Well, that may be true, but so what? CS isn't special in terms of student cheating. Perhaps it's easier to see, and quantify, the amount of cheating. In these Google days, any professor or instructor can go Google a few choice phrases from a student paper and instantly detect plagiarism.

"Ack! Plagiarism and cheating are on the rise, and Google proves it!"

Uh, no. That's always been the case. We just couldn't see it before we had Google.

So suppose the value of the CS degree is so hindered that nobody takes it seriously anymore, and just bases their hiring decisions on pure merit. Fine with me.

I went to school to study, not get a degree.

Originally Posted by MK27

I've had this happen more than once and I still don't care and don't agree with your premises or your interpretation. I do understand why the moderators should not make it a practice. You know what would really ruin the board -- forcing the moderators to tell people they have crossed the line by divulging too much information about c programming, on an advice forum for c programmers. I've never been offered for money** and usually ignore (that kind of) pm because I don't see a need for secrecy.

Handing over an entire solution is no more "divulging information" than giving somebody an encyclopedia in response to a question. Code isn't information (well, it is, but that's not what I'm talking about). The information is knowledge resident in somebody's brain. Obviously, exchanging information as widely as possible is a good thing. I just don't think raw code is a good medium for that exchange.

I'm not in favor of any kind of enforcement against people who post homework solutions. I just have to wonder why they do it.

I certainly wasn't thinking about you, MK27, when I wrote my comment. I wasn't aware that had ever happened to you -- I was thinking more about the new users with low post counts who post solutions (for "street cred?" I don't know)

I have been known to post some sort of solution to a problem. But it is then written in obfuscated C/C++, and if the student actually uses that for the homework submission, then it will be fairly obviuous that it wasn't written by a new student.

http://pastebin.com/ ??
I mean, obviously, it would be possible to find source code in pastebin, but how is it "contract cheating"?

--
Mats

Originally Posted by brewbuck

Handing over an entire solution is no more "divulging information" than giving somebody an encyclopedia in response to a question. Code isn't information

Part of what I mean by disagreeing with the premise. It may not be the best way to demonstrate something, but it seems totally valid and useful to me.

Also, if someone is really looking for a solution and you have it, why not give it to them? It seems wrong to be paranoid about it because you are afraid you might be doing someone's homework for them. Everyone knows you will learn more figuring it out by yourself, but there is also a reason we don't code everything in asm.

I certainly wasn't thinking about you, MK27, when I wrote my comment. I wasn't aware that had ever happened to you -- I was thinking more about the new users with low post counts who post solutions (for "street cred?" I don't know)

I don't mind at all hearing from someone when they think I have just written someone else's assignment. It definitely has happened more than once. But I cannot take the argument, etc, very seriously either. I doubt that many of my "answers" made it verbatim into someone's homework (I don't intend that), but if they did I could care less. Why should my priorities be curtailed because of the priorities of Prof. Stalin, et al.? What have they done for me lately? I don't see any "ethical playing field" there AT ALL.

I learned C (at least partially) at cboard, and one of the major ways I did that was to flat out take homework assignments and do some element of it "for them" (of course, it wasn't for them, it was mostly for me). There's a lot of value to repeatedly solving similar "problems" to improve your knowledge of syntax. I should almost apply for credits

Just to clarify, in case Prof Stalin has some faculty computer running a scan bot in his maniacal efforts to squash the anarchy at cprogramming dot com and I will be to blame for all of it or get banned, I do treat people who say they are doing homework differently because I do agree homework serves a purpose and should be approached that way. I never cheated in school, but I would always discuss material with anyone interested. HOWEVER, my priority is other people whom I perceive to be in the same boat as me: they are learning without the benefit of an institution, and I think it is *very* important to help one another as much as possible. In that context, the idea of "cheating" just doesn't make sense or bare thinking about. At all. There is no way I would withhold from such a person on the suspicion that they *might* be trying to cheat at their school of choice.

@laserlight -- yay, I haven't actually looked at it, I guess I shouldn't have taken the word of whiteflags for granted. Wow, this has really got me heated up. Still, I don't think the majority of university professors would take this "blacklisting" style idea seriously.

Originally Posted by whiteflags

This list is hilarious. By contract cheating, I assume people are getting paid for doing others homework. While that is not impossible here through collusion, we ranked 110 spots higher than rentacoder.

Which supports the very real possibility that these are "profs" who are mostly interesting in roadblocking education generally. Those exist, you can take classes from them too. However, IMO academia is an international realm and the people tend to have an idea of who is who, so I bet you this list is not widely circulated or taken seriously.

A great move would be for someone "with pull and knowledge" to contact a CS faculty willing to to stand up and say they are ethically opposed to this list and it's premises and methods.

[edit] hmm, this list is in alphabetical order, whiteflags. Are you just trying to upset me?

Originally Posted by whiteflags

we ranked 110 spots higher than rentacoder.

Actually, that list is in alphabetical order according to URL.

Yawn. I can't imagine something I care less about.

Originally Posted by jim mcnamara

I'm not suggesting anything. I am a mod on another site -we are being removed from the list because we demonstrated that we have always actively blocked homework and have a zero tolerance for it.

I read kermi3's homework post. It doesn't appear to be enforced....

This thread is homework, it says it is in the title:
Corrections on School assignment...

My point is that being on a list like that is probably not a winning strategy for any forum.

Can you explain what is wrong in that particular thread? I certainly haven't told the OP what he should do - other than correct the indentation and explain some suspicious looking lines of code. And I don't think anyone else has either, but I haven't actually looked at it the last few minutes.

There is a big difference between HELPING someone to solve the problem on their own, and solving the problem FOR them. Clearly, the latter is wrong, and whilst it may not be actively policed, it is certainly frowned upon.

--
Mats