Europe moving right?

This is a discussion on Europe moving right? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Some years ago, in Austria the FPO of Jorg Haider became one of the political groups in the government. This ...

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    Europe moving right?

    Some years ago, in Austria the FPO of Jorg Haider became one of the political groups in the government. This year, the right Fortuyn is very popular in the Netherlands and in Le Pen in France is getting a lot of votes. Is Europe moving to the right?

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    My theory (no fact what so ever to back it up) is that Europe is getting more extreme. I think we get more extreme right wing parties and also more left wing. If this is the case that would be oposite to the path that America been walking the last years,where there is no real difference between the two big parties. Not sure what is best. No options or no good options

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    The way it's reported generally here (at least Le Pen & France) is as an anti third world immigrant, anti jewish, racist type of thing. Is that the main thrust of it, or is there support for more general right wing policies?

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    My diaper's full....... stevey's Avatar
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    I think a vote for Le Pen was a vote against immigration mainly, just the general public voicing its concern. i'm sure a nutter like him won't actually get in. What he said about the Holocaust was appalling.

    I think immigration is a MASSIVE problem, it certainly is in the UK, and i think it is in France.
    I'm sorry to disadvantaged people from all over the world, but enough is enough, we don't have the room/jobs/money etc......
    the average UK citizen does not want any more immigrants, unless they are of use to the country. cruel but true.

    Especially we do not want any more illegal immigrants, troublemakers, religous fundamentalists, people with no education or job prospects, people who can't speak English, people whose religion means that they must have about 10 kids whether they can feed and clothe them or not - knowing the state will provide these things, people who will be a burden in any way. sorry but we just can't afford it. we have too many people on wellfare, too many people who will never have a job. a state can support only so many.

    This is not Racist !! anyone who says we must stop immigration is branded a racist, its not true.(not in my case anyway) its just about protecting what you've got. i myself would let anyone useful into the country, whatever their colour, i'm basically colour blind, i have had Irish, Black and Pakistani friends.........
    Steve

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    >>>>>no-one seems to consider how much of a country's tax revenue is used for corporate 'welfare' which is often oceans of cash flushed down the drain for what? To further the politcal/military/industrial/economic ends of the donor or service the often real needs of the target poorer nation?


    whats this corporate welfare??? i is not understanding this at all......

    re welfare:
    being a nice left wing chap, you know doubt find it offensive what i said, but i am afraid i am living in the real world.

    the problem is that having kids is a living for too many people around here.....you'll think thats a right wing statement but its just a fact. We seem to have a growing army of despo's ->

    the families of poor thick as **** people who sit at home smoking ***s at 9 years old, whose parents encourage them to go out stealing and vandalising, who have about 6/7 kids by 4/5 different absent fathers......these kids also having 6 of their own......multiplying......they go to school and don't want to learn and beat up kids that do.....they are only good for manual labour and there isn't much call for it...so they sit at home smoking more ***s and having more kids......the more kids the more money from the state.....i know girls who were encouraged to have kids so they can get their own council house...... and have more kids..having kids is all they do.....its a job for them.....the growing drug problems .........etc
    in Sheffield we call these people despo's or Nesbitts, and they are a growing problem.......

    being left wing you want to see good in people all the time....i do too..but what is the answer to this??? even a friend of mine has given up his job, because his wife has had a 4th kiddie, so it now means he gets only 40 a week less on benefits than he was working. and who would work for 40/week ?? not me...

    the guy opposite me has never had a job, will never have a job, and doesn't want a job..he's got 3 kids and he's happy enuff doing a bit of fiddle work occasionally and thats all he does.....

    theres always gonna be scroungers and wasters, but with a growing oldie population and shrinking taxpayers its a problem that'll get worse..........

    (this is not to say everone on benefits is a scrounger, not at all, i'm unemployed right now, my brothers on disability.......you need safety nets but..........)
    Last edited by stevey; 04-22-2002 at 09:20 PM.
    Steve

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    Just because ygfperson's Avatar
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    I think immigration is a MASSIVE problem
    at least in europe...
    i like immigration. i know immigrants (russians, mostly) who are decent people. i know of no-one here who is complaining about it. (of course, complaining about it gets branded as racist sometimes.)
    immigration made and is making america great.

    as for the french runoff... i was suprised. it is a move to the right. it's what the people want, i guess.

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    that they must have about 10 kids whether they can feed and clothe them or not
    We're bound to run into the same problem as china did in the past twenty years. You can only have 1 or 2 children, and if you have more, the baby will be given to another family and the family's baby count will go up one.
    This technique, in my opinion, saved china from over-populating.

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    My diaper's full....... stevey's Avatar
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    I admit, overpopulation is a bit of a 'thing' for me, but it is worrying.
    if you look at the grapth of population growth since about 1750 (industrialisation) its alarming, its exponential.
    And whats gonna slow it down ?? disease, poverty ??
    well thats great isn't it !! disease and poverty !!
    so wouldn't it be sensible to have less children.
    thats why i seriously dislike it when religion encourages large families, and i also think welfare systems encourage it to a certain extent. you can have as many kids as you want, the state will provide for them.
    I don't think we have enough room in the UK for many more people, its too small!!!
    Steve

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    In Belgium (the flamish(sp?) part of it) we also have a BIG problem with an extreme right party called Vlaams Blok. Most of the people that vote for them are protesting against the current governement. The most important argument they have is the same as Le Pen: the insecurity and foreigners. I ask myself the question: WHY?
    Is it so bad in Belgium, France, etc. No it isn't. Is 50% of the people foreign, NO. There are some city's and neighberhoods where it isn't safe to go out after dark. But you have those in every country.Western Europe and North America are probably the richest and safest country's in the world.

    I think people are spoiled.
    Where on earth would it be better to live?
    I can't complain. I have a good life. And so do a lot of those people who vote for extreme right. They simply don't know it


    Don't get me wrong here I do not think we should open our borders to everyone. But I like it the way it is now.

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    Originally posted by maes
    In Belgium (the flamish(sp?) part of it) we also have a BIG problem with an extreme right party called Vlaams Blok. Most of the people that vote for them are protesting against the current governement. The most important argument they have is the same as Le Pen: the insecurity and foreigners. I ask myself the question: WHY?
    Is it so bad in Belgium, France, etc. No it isn't. Is 50% of the people foreign, NO. There are some city's and neighberhoods where it isn't safe to go out after dark. But you have those in every country.Western Europe and North America are probably the richest and safest country's in the world.

    I think people are spoiled.
    Where on earth would it be better to live?
    I can't complain. I have a good life. And so do a lot of those people who vote for extreme right. They simply don't know it


    Don't get me wrong here I do not think we should open our borders to everyone. But I like it the way it is now.
    yeah we have it good, nobody goes hungry etc in the West. Thats why economic migrants want to come here. who can blame them ???? but i believe the UK is overpopulated already, and there are limited jobs and resources etc. so a lot of people hate immigration and will vote for right wing extremists to get that point across, i don't think many people would actually want these people to be in power...
    Steve

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    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    In Denmark, our Social Democrat government of many years was replaced by a right and far right coalition in November, (although the far right partner is small, and not the farthest right).

    I think in France, the Le Pen "victory" will act as a wake up call to the apathetic voters. I believe the election set a record low for the turn out figure with estimates varying slightly above or slightly below 20%. If 80% of the people cannot be bothered to vote, then they basically deserve whatever they get.
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity unto the dream.

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    >Most of the people that vote for them are protesting against the
    >current governement.

    I agree with this. When things are going well, there are no problems. But when things are going bad, like economy going down, people are getting angry and say that it's caused by the current government. They vote on right-wing politicians to let the current government know that they won't go further with the. The reason why many people vote Fortuyn, in the Netherlands, is because he points at all things that are currently wrong. So the people think that he understands them. He's (mis)-using the current situation.

    But I hope the people won't vote him when the final polls are there. Most people mean it as a protest, just a few are really wanting Fortuyn.

    >I have a good life. And so do a lot of those people who vote for
    >extreme right. They simply don't know it

    That's also in the Netherlands. Sometimes I think they vote extreme right because they are afraid to loose what they have, which is their good life. They are afraid that the left wing politicians will change taxes so that the rich have to pay much more than the pore, they are afraid that the poor will given more advantages etc. Though I'm not sure of it, since we have a centre-left wing government here.

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    Le Pen only had 200,000 more votes than the last time he stood in the election - turnout was dire though and the two main parties assumed they would both get through to the next round and did hardly any electioneering - so much so that the majority of people assumed the first round was a foregone conclusion and so did not turn out to vote - that is probably one of the main issues of elections currently is the apathy toward them... However, this has probably acted as a wake up call to most french people and i would expect the turnout in the next round to be pretty high and also for le pen to be beaten by a pretty large majority.
    I dont think the uk is getting any more right wing though (i cant speak for the rest of europe) - yes immigration is a big issue - but the reason for that is we are a very very small island - we dont have the space for a huge immigrant population. However i believe that political and human rights refugees should always be allowed entry (as a civilised and pretty well off country it should be one of our main concerns to help others)- economic immigrants are more of a worry (and by that i mean the people who wish to come here as our welfare state is much better than their own and therefore they are coming here for monetary reasons) and better restrictions should be in place on those
    Do not meddle in the ways of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup

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    My diaper's full....... stevey's Avatar
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    >>>the odds on another Ferrari championship will be shorter than Jean Todt's garden gnome.

    not shorter than Bernie though !!!
    Steve

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    [off topic] Ferrari and Shumi rule [off topic]

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