Thread: Small laptop

  1. #16
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    I would expect SSD drives to be built with reasonably modern flash devices that can take 1M write cycles [1]


    [1] Flash memory is generally in blocks, which are erased to logical one, and can be written to logical zero. A "write cycle" in this case is a full erase and write zero on any cell. So as long as you don't have really stupid software that uses the same position over and over (and flash filesystems will write a zero(s) to mark something "deleted", rather than just erase it all and write over it - this reduces the number of writes to the same position).

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  2. #17
    and the Hat of Clumsiness GanglyLamb's Avatar
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    Okay I've decided I'm getting a Asus EeePC 901 12GB SSD. Mainly because of GanglyLamb's opinion, so he'll be to blame if I don't like it
    Maybe Im just a salesman for asus irl.

    Anyhow, Im satisfied with it, the only thing which I didnt like was that the drive where windows was installed on was only 4gb (in reality only 3.6 gb) so that the installation of sp3 made windows choke itself because of the limited space. Trying to deinstall sp3 was an adventure on itself since it apparently required at least 360 Mb free disk space - on the windows drive (which I didnt have because i just installed the sp3)...

    But of course this is not a problem with the eee pc more the combination of a limited hard drive and windows. Also keep in mind, that by buying a netbook like this you will not have the option to just insert a cd/dvd and start doing things with it, simply because it doesnt have a cd/dvd drive at all...

    As I said before, in the short time I have the netbook I havent ran into any problems with it, so lets hope it stays this way!

    This may be an obvious thing but... have you seen those laptops in person and tried them?

    The screen and keyboard (especially the keyboard) are a lot smaller than they seem in pictures.

    Not that there's anything wrong with it, just making sure you are aware of this.
    Yes the keyboard is small and so is the screen, screen resolution of 1024*600 on the netbook but it goes to 1240*1028 on external screens. As for the keyboard its just a matter of getting used to it. Although I must admit whenever I take it from my appartment to my folks I plugin an external monitor, keyboard and mouse.
    Last edited by GanglyLamb; 12-04-2008 at 04:32 AM.

  3. #18
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
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    Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm now getting an MSI Wind U100. It's made by the same people who make the Dell 9 and the HP Netbook thingy. Basically, I can't get a eeePC 901 or 904 with the HDD (I don't want a SSD and the 900's have battery problems) in Australia -- they're all sold out!

    Plus I've been hearing fantastic things about the wind including a good keyboard and great battery life of upto 7 hours!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GanglyLamb View Post
    Anyhow, Im satisfied with it, the only thing which I didnt like was that the drive where windows was installed on was only 4gb (in reality only 3.6 gb) so that the installation of sp3 made windows choke itself because of the limited space. Trying to deinstall sp3 was an adventure on itself since it apparently required at least 360 Mb free disk space - on the windows drive (which I didnt have because i just installed the sp3)...
    Another problem with SSDs and typically laptops altogether...
    No space! Fortunately, SSDs still run on SATA, so switching it out is not a problem.

    But of course this is not a problem with the eee pc more the combination of a limited hard drive and windows. Also keep in mind, that by buying a netbook like this you will not have the option to just insert a cd/dvd and start doing things with it, simply because it doesnt have a cd/dvd drive at all...
    Oh yes, thanks for reminding me.
    Now I remember that the Eee netbooks does not even have a DVD drive. Which is really stupid, if you ask me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  5. #20
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Another problem with SSDs and typically laptops altogether...
    No space!
    I disagree. Instead, I'd say the problem with modern software is that they don't put enough effort in compacting the size of the application and the amount it writes to the disk. Take Windows Vista for example: Currently my Windows folder comes in at a whopping 21.4GB (thanks mainly to Windows Side By Side). This is not including the standard windows applications sitting in Program Files. The last game I purchased, Fallout 3 came in at around 6.4GB on my disk. I strongly believe there is no need for any of these modern applications to be as large as they are. The only thing that could really take a massive amount of space on a disk would be uncompressed video... I believe a video at 1920x1080 resolution with hi-def audio can get up to 30GB in size or so. However, considering that most laptops don't go over the 1280x800 (maybe 1440x900) resolution. I can't think of a good reason to have those videos on your laptop.

    All that said, Solid-state disks get up to 256GB, now, while 2.5" HDD can reach 500GB. I believe that should be enough for anyone if only the software developers could stop with the bloated crap they put out every day. Even with the bloated crap, I'd be struggling to reach that 256GB. Hell, currently I have Windows Vista, Windows XP, Windows 98 (and all the older Windows that prove to be pointless in the disk space discussion), Kubuntu Linux, OpenSolaris, FreeBSD, and OS/2 Warp 4 sitting on my laptop. That's along with 15GB of music and movies, a whole lot of productivity software in design and software development, and a bunch of games from the 1990-2006 era and I'm still struggling to fill up my 160GB drive.

    Wow... this was supposed to be a short response and turned into a rant.
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  6. #21
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    You say they are bloated. Perhaps. But sometimes it's there for a purpose.
    But I'm more concerned with media. Videos alone take up 300 MB a piece, and I love having those littering around, so 20 GB is just not enough.
    256 GB is alright for temporary storage of videos, 500 GB is good. But how expensive are those SSDs? Extremely expensive. Eventually, the price will come down, but until then, SSDs is simply not a viable option IMHO.
    Don't get me wrong, though. I love the speed of them, and the trickle of power they use. The only thing I have against them is life, size and cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  7. #22
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    But how expensive are those SSDs? Extremely expensive. Eventually, the price will come down, but until then, SSDs is simply not a viable option IMHO..
    It's not the fault of the technology that it is new and expensive and doesn't degrade the quality. I never meant to imply it was a viable option, however, it is certainly the future. With Intel putting out SSDs now that have more than 2.5 times the read and write speeds of the fastest HDDs, it's clear to see that the technology is soon to take the place of the incumbent technology. I'm just dissenting your comments that seem to imply SSDs have numerous problems that may possibly put it inferior to a standard hard drive.

    Off topic: Speaking of future technology... if anyone hasn't had a chance to see the 22" HP TouchSmart, then you should do so. If that's not a glimpse into the future, then I don't know what is.
    Sent from my iPad®

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    It's not the fault of the technology that it is new and expensive and doesn't degrade the quality.
    Indeed. It just isn't a viable option... yet.

    I never meant to imply it was a viable option, however, it is certainly the future. With Intel putting out SSDs now that have more than 2.5 times the read and write speeds of the fastest HDDs, it's clear to see that the technology is soon to take the place of the incumbent technology.
    Yes, I have seen that. Very interesting

    I'm just dissenting your comments that seem to imply SSDs have numerous problems that may possibly put it inferior to a standard hard drive.
    And I'll let you rest assured that I'm no anti-SSD :P
    I just think that, for now, SSD is not ready and should be avoided.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  9. #24
    Chinese pâté foxman's Avatar
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    I heard some good things about the Samsung NC10.
    http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...samsung-nc10/1
    I hate real numbers.

  10. #25
    and the Hat of Clumsiness GanglyLamb's Avatar
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    Elysia responding in threads makes me go crazy.

    I'll be at the nearest eee pc distributer to complain about its small hard drive capacity which I chose above a larger storage because I wanted ssd. Also I'll tell the vendor that I expect to have a 600 $ ssd in it, although the laptop as a whole only costed 300$. Since this is not enough ill ask him to cram a dvd writer/reader whatever into it so that it will get bigger larger and heavier... or no wait , thats exactly the reason why its called a netbook... because its supposed to be lighter, smaller and easier to carry from place A to B ...


    It's a sad day for the internet !

  11. #26
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxman View Post
    I heard some good things about the Samsung NC10.
    http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...samsung-nc10/1
    Yeah, Samsung and Intel are in a bitter war for the top SSD on the market. This is a good thing, because it's making the price of SSDs drop faster than what was expected just six months ago. It's interesting to see the major semiconductor manufacturers beating out the major memory players like OCZ and Patriot. I don't know too much about the SSD technology, but clearly the performance lies in chip managing the flash memory and not the quality of the flash memory itself.
    Last edited by SlyMaelstrom; 12-04-2008 at 12:02 PM.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by GanglyLamb View Post
    Elysia responding in threads makes me go crazy.

    I'll be at the nearest eee pc distributer to complain about its small hard drive capacity which I chose above a larger storage because I wanted ssd. Also I'll tell the vendor that I expect to have a 600 $ ssd in it, although the laptop as a whole only costed 300$. Since this is not enough ill ask him to cram a dvd writer/reader whatever into it so that it will get bigger larger and heavier... or no wait , thats exactly the reason why its called a netbook... because its supposed to be lighter, smaller and easier to carry from place A to B ...


    It's a sad day for the internet !
    You sad thing. You seem to misunderstand.
    Of course they have to make sacrifices for cutting down price and weight.
    But I realize why it's under-specced and missing components because of its price and weight. And I don't expect it to be better because it's price and weight. It's one model--and it's one poor model at that--out of many more. I don't have to choose this model if I don't have to, nor do others. There are far better models out there.
    That's all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  13. #28
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
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    I'll be at the nearest eee pc distributer to complain about its small hard drive capacity which I chose above a larger storage because I wanted ssd. Also I'll tell the vendor that I expect to have a 600 $ ssd in it, although the laptop as a whole only costed 300$.
    That's why I'm not getting an SSD. Because if I had one I'd rather it be a very good quality one but they cost a lot :-). I've never had problems with HDDS, in fact I race Enduro while listening to my mp3 player (which has a 20GB laptop HDD -- Toshiba Gigabeat F20). It doesn't skip or anything, not even on largish jumps.

  14. #29
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    I disagree. Instead, I'd say the problem with modern software is that they don't put enough effort in compacting the size of the application and the amount it writes to the disk. Take Windows Vista for example: Currently my Windows folder comes in at a whopping 21.4GB (thanks mainly to Windows Side By Side). This is not including the standard windows applications sitting in Program Files. The last game I purchased, Fallout 3 came in at around 6.4GB on my disk. I strongly believe there is no need for any of these modern applications to be as large as they are. The only thing that could really take a massive amount of space on a disk would be uncompressed video... I believe a video at 1920x1080 resolution with hi-def audio can get up to 30GB in size or so. However, considering that most laptops don't go over the 1280x800 (maybe 1440x900) resolution. I can't think of a good reason to have those videos on your laptop.
    Actually games have a lot of sounds/graphics/models, so they do have an excuse for wasting a lot of HDD space. Windows and normal applications however don't have a good reason for that.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  15. #30
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    define "wasting space"...
    No application has a right to waste space, applications however do have a right to use what space they really need.
    If a game needs hundreds of megabytes to store textures and sound, so be it. But I've seen (admittedly in the distant past) games create files of garbage many megabytes in size to ensure their installation folder was too large to fit on a floppy disk as a crude anti-piracy measure.
    That's wastage, especially if your total hardisk size is only a hundred or less MB...

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