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I've an intro book to C and plan to read another "Understanding C" a Sams book. I've looked at the six books to read as the suggestions for learning C++. Will these books give me a good start into C++ while not losing the foundation of C that I want to be strong in?
If the ultimate goal is to learn C++, just skip C entirely. There's no reason you have to learn C first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassglider
If you want both, I'd actually start with C++ first and then "back up" to learn C. After learning C++, C will seem stupidly easy.
Will PHP be stupidly easy as well after learning C++?
I'd have to take out the "easy" and say that PHP is just plain stupid, but yeah. Similar syntax, just don't expect the object-orientation to be anywhere near as robust or useful as in C++.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassglider
If you have basic foundation of C, you wouldn't be find C++ to hard to start. You could just start with C++ straight way.Quote:
Will these books give me a good start into C++ while not losing the foundation of C that I want to be strong in?
ssharish
Thanks :) Is programming simple applications in Mac vs. Linux vs. Windows something that will be taken into consideration when learning? I would like to know how to program for all OS's. How different are they when you break in down into different OS's?
As far i know it not prossible to write a 100% protable software, but till you could write a code which is upto may be 90% protable only if you could follow the standard of C. Have a look at the this link where u will find some links http://home.att.net/~jackklein/c/standards.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Bassglider
ssharish
If you keep portability in mind, it's very possible and feasible to write code that requires little to no modification to run on different platforms. Make sure you don't use platform dependent APIs (eg. Win32 API, DirectX, Cocoa/Carbon). Use cross-platform libs like Boost, Qt, OpenGL instead.Quote:
Thanks Is programming simple applications in Mac vs. Linux vs. Windows something that will be taken into consideration when learning? I would like to know how to program for all OS's. How different are they when you break in down into different OS's?
Different compilers also have different quirks, but it wouldn't be so much of a problem if you use gcc (and mingw), since it is available on all major platforms.
Of course, it doesn't apply if you are writing low-level codes. (I have never seen a cross-platform device driver...)
I would suggest starting with C. It is simpler to learn the basics and will get you rolling a lot faster than C++. C is hard enough as it is for a beginner to jump into and C++ has too many extra things that make it that much harder. Once you get going with C you will be able to jump into C++ fairly seamlessly with a few tutorials and some tinkering.
I have to kindly disagree with Welder. I think C++ is easier with its well-encapsulated libraries. For instance, I think string manipulation (using std::string) in C++ is a lot easier than working with char arrays. I also find iostreams (cin, cout) easier to work with as a beginner than their C counterparts. Also, data structures like vectors and linked lists are only available in C++.
> Also, data structures like vectors and linked lists are only available in C++.
They are!?
Of course. In C, you'd need to allocated/deallocate memory yourself, create linked list structures... It's a pain in the ass compared to STL containers.Quote:
Originally Posted by zacs7
Is there any reason for someone to learn C after C++? and is C++ that much better for a relatively small program (I'm talking about a program ~800 lines).
Yes. For example, you might need to maintain a C program (there are many of them out there still alive and kicking).Quote:
Is there any reason for someone to learn C after C++?
C is the foundation of C++. I use both when I program but I try to focus on C primarily. I started with C 9 years ago and really don't want to change over completely. Kind of like how some people still use PASCAL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abda92
No kidding? Wow, and I have been using them in C for years and never knew I couldn't!Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfish
cyberfish, yes and no.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfish
C++ is more elegant and flows smoother once you get a grasp on it, but what I was getting at is from a beginner's standpoint there is more to the syntax of the language than C. There are more little things that need to be typed and learned to get a program running, more little things like defining classes and such. It can be overwhelming to a green programmer.
With C you can write functions and little bits of code that a beginner would write, and can do it very easily and not a lot of syntax to remember.
I think it has more influence the ability of the programmer (not my case :-) ) over the choise of the language.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abda92
In assembly programming is easier to call and use function from a C library than from a C++ one. If you are wrinting a low level library maybe you want to consider writing in C.
I recommend C++ simply because of all the tools it provides to help. No handling of memory yourself, and such. Using vectors, maps, string classes, and so on. You can actually focus on the more important tasks in the project.
While C++ can be a little more complex, you don't need to learn all about classes, inheritance, etc, right away. You can just learn some basic C with C++ traits like classes. One should always start with the easy and then advance to the advanced part.
At least that's what I believe is best. I've never written a program in pure C.
So is it safe to say someone should start right in the middle? :P Maybe learn C+ before C or C++? heheQuote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
You haven't lived! :) C is my baby.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
Maybe so!Quote:
Originally Posted by Welder
I have lived! With C++ and traits of C, I've done all kinds of terrible things that any C++ dev would be horried about if they knew :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Welder
Besides that, I have extensively used (and abused) inheritance, multiple inheritance (I think) and polymorphism.
Of course I was referring to their availability in the standard libraries. =)Quote:
No kidding? Wow, and I have been using them in C for years and never knew I couldn't!
That was what I meant.Quote:
I recommend C++ simply because of all the tools it provides to help. No handling of memory yourself, and such. Using vectors, maps, string classes, and so on. You can actually focus on the more important tasks in the project.
this is a great community, I ask one question and get 20 responses! I'm glad to be a part of this. I think the best option for me would be to finish this beginners book and then read the next C book i have to get into more detail. After that I will jump into "C++ Without Fear" as this site recommends. I also just signed up to get a degree in Computer Science even though I have my degree is Business Administration, which isn't really doing it for me.
Has anyone recieved their Computer Science degree and learned a lot about programming from it; Or is it mostly just for the piece of paper? I have a full time job now which won't interfere much since I can work from home (websites for a media agency) and the classes are mostly online from the university close by.
Just trying to get an idea of what I can expect on my plate when I get into this program, the classes look exhilarating
Heres some of the classes I think are interesting:
Program Structure (3) Program organization paradigms, programming environments, implementation of a module from specifications, the C and C++ programming languages.
Introduction to Scripting (3) Introduction to scripting languages for the integration of applications and systems. Scripting in operating systems, web pages, server-side application integration, regular expressions, event handling, input validation, selection, repetition, parameter passing, Perl, JavaScript, and PHP
Machine-Level and Systems Programming (3) Machine organization, machine instructions, addressing modes, assembler language, subroutine linkage, linking to higher-level languages, interface to operating systems, introduction to assemblers, loaders and compilers.
Programming Language Theory (3) Syntax, control structures, data binding and scope, language styles, programming in LISP and Prolog, language and automata theory
Logic Design and Microprocessors
Artificial Intelligence Survey of artificial intelligence: natural language processing, vision and robotics, expert systems. Emphasis on fundamental concepts: search, planning, and problem solving, logic, knowledge representation.
Concurrent and High-Performance Programming (3) Principles of concurrent and high performance programming. Multi-threading in C and Java for shared-memory programming. Distributed memory programming with Java. Introduction to cluster computing.
Application Frameworks (3) Experience producing applications with at least two different applications frameworks
Database Systems (3) Principles of database systems, data modeling, relational models, database design, query languages, query optimization, concurrency control data security
Software Engineering I (3) System specification, modeling and analysis, prototyping, hierarchal design, program design methods, cost estimation, project management, computer-aided software design. Team-oriented software-design project.
Sounds cool, but does anyone know from their experience in CS how time is taught working with C/C++?
I think your are confused with 'computer science engineer' with 'software engineer' or a 'coder' (whatever you call those ppl who write programs)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassglider
CS is not all about how things are programmed in C or C++ or C# or java or VB etc...
or not even any one being specific..
(I dont know exactly why & how, but most CSE ppl prefer C to C++, this is all I found from ppl around me, its just my opinion)
To be frank these programming languages are used to get the student involved into what & how it is.. but programming is not ALL that a CS grad can do..
CS just teaches you how things work but NOT how EXACTLY a SPECIFIC thing works. they only teach one as an example leaving you to know about the rest as homework ;)
In fact there are a lot of things to learn, mostly theoretical relating mathematics & computation.. but only a few are realized/implemented
so you finally end up knowing how the rest are.. lol
the bottom line is CS teachesits your interest that teaches yourQuote:
SOMETHING of EVERYTHING
so your question is to yourself what you want to be :pQuote:
EVERYTHING of SOMETHING
software engg dosent need you to be a CSE grad. but it helps to be one.
PS: I am studying in CSE final year in some uni @ india
Ok, thanks, well I knew that CS wouldn't be all about programming. I do wish to learn as much as I can about everything around it.
When it comes to mathematics is any of it done on paper in your school, or all as computer equations like algebra (or C operator formulas)
at this level unfortunately you seldom find any numbers.. lol
but that is how it is.
its like the Question will be little different..
it wont be like "calculate something etc" as in school math
it will be something like
- can you at all calculate it?
- If it can be calculated, can it be calculated in finite time? (i.e: will your algorithm for calculating/doing something ever halt?)
- if you can calculate in finite time, how hard is it to calculate & how accurate is it?
- what is the most feasible/preferred way(algorithm)?
all these are related to algorithms.. where you find only pseudo code. and some proofs..
they all sound stupid. (at least to me :D) but that is what CSE/computation ppl learn.. lol
as I used 'calculated' above. it need not be the same for everything..
I dont find anything involving programming or its skills here..
its like flow of logic..