What do you people hold your beliefs to?
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What do you people hold your beliefs to?
Oh, by the way, please don't answer Tuxist....
As my signature implies, I'm Christian.
im an Anti-Tuxist , that is a Microsoftian :D
Nooo!! Fool! Don't you know to never post about religion in these forums!! :eek:
::ducks flying athiests::
(catholic, by the way...)
LoL...Something is wrong with you dude? How can you be pro-microsoft?Quote:
Originally posted by iain
im an Anti-Tuxist , that is a Microsoftian :D
There is no god. religion was created as a means of control of weak minded individuals....
hey there's nothing wrong with us atheists - live and let live thats my motto
As everybody should know by now (it's pretty general knowledge), I am a Mormon.
>Nooo!! Fool! Don't you know to never post about religion in these forums!!
lol....very true....just do a search about religious threads....we have gotten into some very heated discussions about religion in the past....
Sorry, I'm just really curious about you people.
>>pro microsft
nah, but i prefer to be ruled by a person than a penguin! :)
in a god sense.
>>religion post
ah, it had to happen again at some point. Iam now retiring from this post and retreating to a safe distance before the posts start flying.
Normally: i believe in this and if you dont you will simmer in an eternal vat of rat blood
your all wrong - i dont belive in free speech - im right thats it
are two standard posts on topics like this
I'm completely non-religious... not anti~ just non~. I live by my own morals and that seems to suit me quite well.
You never know iain a penguin might make quite a good deity...
...there's never been one before so you don't actually *know*. :)
I don't belive there's a god. I think there may be higher levels of consciousness of myself, so at the moment I am here in a physical level. But when I die I may move to a higher level of thought and understanding, after more time or I reach a certain point in my understanding I may move on again. This could continue forever and I voted other by the way.
I've accepted to myself that I don't know, and that I can't stop thinking about it unless I get involved with other thoughts that can fill my time. It's like there is no limit to what you can see, you can chose a way and walk it as long as you want. If I began to believe in something, I know that the more I searched about it and walked the road, the more it would change.
I don't believe in any religon I've seen so far. It's possible that some religons have things to say for a while, a lifetime, thousands of years, or longer - but that depends on how the reader translates the scripture.
Basically I believe that this world is completely dead at the core, and everything is cursed to die in it. But somehow we keep living in it anyway, we fight, we help each other to advance as long as we are alive. It might be just lies, and those lies are only real as we are figuring them out. We create things in this dead world, and that's what's positive in our eyes, when we've seen those things or got to know them too good, they disappear and will never come back to us. And we must find something new. This seems to be the natural cause of events for everything.
Things like friends are real when I am with them, that's the time when I live, and they can change with me, but when I leave them it sometimes feels like just an illusion, that I was tricked. We are dead robots, we can smile, cry, etc. depending on our environment. And that's all.
I believe in the leprachauns who tell me to burn stuff.
Kill the posters?
Yes, paddy.
LoL!Quote:
Originally posted by Brian
I believe in the leprachauns who tell me to burn stuff.
Kill the posters?
Yes, paddy.
Hmm...Interesting philosophy. Do you have anything to back it up? How do you know it is just an illusion, when you stop hanging out with your friends? Are you sure it is not an illusion when you are actually hanging out with them?
Hmm...pretty close to my feelings.Quote:
Originally posted by Stoned_Coder
There is no god. religion was created as a means of control of weak minded individuals....
But with this point of view, you have to admire how this mumbo jumbo has stayed so damn strong throughout social history.
Perhaps the most fantastic beliefs are the easiest to sell, or maybe most humans just need something to believe in........ I dont know if I agree with the "weak minded" point....... It obviously has wider appeal.....
Pagan here!
Darkened Pagan to be specific with a (predominantly) Hindu pantheon.
Namaste!
I, myself, am a Christian. I base my life on Christ.
> I believe in the leprachauns who tell me to burn stuff.
OK, Ralphie :D
"How do the berries taste, Ralph?"
"They taste like.... burning..."
>There is no god. religion was created as a means of control of weak minded individuals....
On the contrary...using foul language and doing evil deeds is a weak mind trying to express itself strongly...
>> using foul language and doing evil deeds is a weak mind trying to express itself strongly... <<
That's pretty good! I don't think I could have explained it better.
Tell me, those who believe there is no god, what happens when you die? Of course, my faith (Christian) believes that I will be judged by God and chosed to go either to Heaven or Hell. But tell me, what do you think will happen when you die?
There is no god. religion was created as a means of control of weak minded individuals....
Most people that really end up thinking for themselves come to that conclusion...damn...I thought it...all those others just arnt smart enough...or are weak. Possibly that plays a role, but I think theres more to it. I beleive more than control, religion was created for comfort or meaning. It's a comparativly empty existance without religion for many people. A lot of people have trouble thinking that in the end nothing matters, and that in reality they are very alone. In many instance relgion is a mind crutch.
But for those that can beleive in it, good for them. I'm hapy for them and wouldnt really like to take that joy from them. To be responisble for taking meaning and comfort from an indvidual is a cruel thing. So for those that have a faith and are getting something from it...right on!
I'll have my faith when god cmes down and gives a very simple 'hey mark'...but thats just me:) I'd settle for one of those mircles or floods or even mabye an army of locusts too:)
>> I'll have my faith when god cmes down and gives a very simple 'hey mark' <<
I hear this from many of people who question my faith. They say, "How do you know there is a god?", and "There is no proof". Well, first of all, the Bible teaches me and tells me of my faith, and it is up to me to believe.
And to your comment, who are you to test God? You are pretty much saying, "God, if you exist, prove it to me." You have no place to say that. God is the one testing you. You don't have that authority to test Him.
Garfield
Personally I think ( and i say think loosly because I don't back this hard core...in reality almost anything could conceivable be true) that when you die, and your body stops functioning, you stop functioning. The old computer just gos kaput. The neurons and whatnot stop running the assembly code and return 0 is called:)That really goes against somethign programmed in the mind that makes you want to live forever and preserve yourself and in many ways sucks...but i don't think theres anyway around it. I almost think its a little egotistical to assume otherwise:)Quote:
Originally posted by Garfield
Tell me, those who believe there is no god, what happens when you die? Of course, my faith (Christian) believes that I will be judged by God and chosed to go either to Heaven or Hell. But tell me, what do you think will happen when you die?
But who wants my beleifs:) I sure don't...O, and by the way...if you don't want to undertand life very much (and in my opinion ignornce is bliss) than don't do drugs. Especially weed. Whos needs mind expanding. My cats look very happy to me all the time...and I don't see them thinking very dep thoughts:)
In junior year of college I mad emy own airtight religion. Its based on this turtle god. His religion doesnt have many rules, but it is goverened by faith. Don't question him. He exists. I made up a book too. The book tells you that you must have faith. To question the turtle god is to endure sever punishment on death. That punishment: a very very stern look. He lso had a prophet named jabudhala:)
You must beleive in him to avoid the stern look though. And if you want proof of him tough. Its all on faith. Have faith or be prepared to face the wraith of a stern look.
How do I know all this? well, I read it in a small book I wrote:)
No offense to any reigion out there...religion is good. I don't knock any religion.
Byt he way...Garf, arnt you sad those poor egyptians will never be met by you? Those poor buggers picked the wrong god! I wep at not getting to meet them:) Or the native americans...and those poor poor aztecs..all going to hell. But worst I cry for my friend. His parants where jahovas whitnesses...now hes one cause he was raised on it! poor guy. Bhudda will roast him alive!
And another friend...he catholic...because his parants raised him that way...but the jewish religion is the real one! poor adam...hes going o hll cause his parants picked the wrong one!!!
but...i digress...
PLease don't take me as an attack garf:) In reality I respect you and your religion, and I mean you no disrespect. But if you have a solid beleive I'm sure that this won't bug you too much (Mmy tone or whatnot)...or at least I hope so:)
>> But if you have a solid beleive I'm sure that this won't bug you too much <<
You are right, it doesn't bug me (nothing like a note-worthy debate :D).
I don't believe that other people who believe in other religions go to Hell. Consider this...
There is a parent that is not a good person. He steals. He knows that stealing is wrong. He has a son. He teaches his 5-year-old son to go into the food market and steal a candy bar. Stealing is wrong. But that 5-year-old boy doesn't know any better. God doesn't judge us on our ignorance, but he is judging that parent for teaching of criminal acts and of doing them.
I don't know what would happen to that 5-year-old boy if he died that day without knowing that stealing is wrong. After all, I'm not the Judge :D
So, I do not condemn other religions and people that believe in them. They don't know better. They are not at fault. In fact, I'm not judging anybody. That would be a sin.
Garfield
Heres the problem...an where life gets tricky and hard to convey...just as that boy was affected by his environment and stole because of it..everyone is affeted. People are not bad. Or good. They are very very complex programs, and what they do is not there fault. It is a ombo factor...genetics and environment. Both are out fo there control and yet both are what is responible for what they are and what they do. There is as a valid an excuse as a parent teaching you to steal for everything. I don't blame the man who rapes 30 10 year old girls. I wouldnt mind him being taken fom society, but what he did was not his fault. Hes a rampant program that relative to us went horibly wrong.
Its like if I wrote two programs and had them intract...I made thm develop based on outside stimulus...eventually I'm watching them and one programs AI has incorporated stuff in him to verbally abuse the other AI...its really toasting him. I go, hey bill (the guy who wrote him with me)...the charlie AI is evil...hes harrasing amy. Lets pull the plug...this AI's going to hell...it picked up a little hitler on TV and for some reason our algorithms arnt quite smart enough to pick up that hes behaving in a way that others don't approve..or worse YOUR algarithm in him for some reason doesn't care...you screwed up bill. I tried to feed the bible in him...but algarithm 5,123,456,783 is rejeting it based on early stimuli and some more erros in YOUR algirithms....
haha...that was fun.
Dude, you have some weird view on a human's soul.
People are not robots. You have got that all wrong...
Dont worry man..if you live long enough youll see me get more and more justified every day...eventually most humans will realize it...just as they realized that enslaving other man was wrong..or at least most of us did:) Its not a very comforting thought...but whoever said logic was warm and fuzzy:)
Id beleieve in god...but i hate think about the egg on my face when im found wrong...like those poor poor men that new the world was flat:)
>> but i hate think about the egg on my face when im found wrong... <<
And when is this going to happen? When you die and you are brought before the all-power and awesome God and he asks you what you did with your life and why you denied him? No, my friend, you are going to be the one with the egg in your face. Wait and see. You are the fool...
Hahahaha...one thing I can say about religious guys...they do have that faith...wait..mabye that weak minded part was true?...hahahaha j/k:)
>I don't believe that other people who believe in other religions go to Hell. Consider this...
That is completely true. It says in Corinthians there are 3 degrees of glory in Heaven (1 Corinthians 15:39-44). Depending on how valiant and faithful you are, you go to one of those glorys.
On only one condition do you go to Hell, and that is if you deny the Holy Ghost, because it is the only unpardonable sin (Matthew 10:33, Matthew 12:31, 2 Timothy 2:12, Hebrews 10:26).
If you are valiant, you will be resurrected in the 1st resurrection, as explained in Revelations. If you are not, but have not denied the Holy Ghost, you will endure 1000 years of torment, and then be resurrected to your glory, as said in Revelations.
People of other religions have not denied the Holy Ghost, because they have never experienced it, therefore they cannot go to Hell.
wow there certainly are a lot of outs.
God is fair! :D You (and everybody) will be judged according to how you live now. Why not make it productive and praiseworthy?
"If you are valiant, you will be resurrected in the 1st resurrection, as explained in Revelations. If you are not, but have not denied the Holy Ghost, you will endure 1000 years of torment, and then be resurrected to your glory, as said in Revelations.
People of other religions have not denied the Holy Ghost, because they have never experienced it, therefore they cannot go to Hell."
So does this mean that people who have truly believed that god did not exist, but subsequently realized that they were wrong are still on the path to eternal damnation?
"using foul language and doing evil deeds is a weak mind trying to express itself strongly"
I think it's more a protest of needless oppresion. Blatently, who the **** does it hurt when someone cursers, likewise, what is so weak about its use?
Haha garf...your lecturing me to be good? trust me. you dont need god for that. You think im a hooligan:) Intelligence brings about good nature. I mean you no harm..and if youll look at my earlyier posts i dont want to challange your religion..although i will admit ive been drawn into something i shouldnt have. That comment is actually very insulting to me. I beleive I'm a very good person, and I do that out of a common respect for man. He gets my empathy for sharing my struggle. As for productive...thats a personal decision. As theres not much else to do I am attempting to be productive. I'm on a free ride to school to attempt a life that I hope to look back on and be proud...god or not. And in no way do I dissmiss your god. If he's there, great. I'd rather like it if that were the case. But religion lies in a category of pitfalls that led humans into burning witches and enslaving african americans. Its one I didnt fall into, and luckily its not a bad one at all. Its actually a very wonderful one for many people. Im sorry if youve been offended. It almost seems like your attacking me...but Im sure it seems like im attacking you too:) SO lets call it quits and make ammends:) I respect what you think and no longer try to alter that. I hate to make an enemy so quick here:)
My apologies.
Mark
>>Intelligence brings about good nature
Have you thought about this AT ALL???
Adolph Hitler was one of the most incredibly ingenious men that have ever walked the Earth...Was he good?
Osama Bin Laden is also a very smart person. He and his cronies have been able to orchestrate one of the most ingenius, yet most destructive plans on the face of the Earth. I believe it takes a whole lot of brainpower to do something that extreme.
Your definition of intelligence is obviously very diferent than mine. And Hitler is a strange case. I'd liken him to the men who owned slaves...many were very inteligent...but they just 'missed' something. Hitler did too. He thought he was cleansing the world. Making it a better place. He was a bit misguided. People like him bring to mind that quote "a thin line between genius and insanity" I will stick by my claim. True intelligence brings about peace and just being nice in general (well, at least it brings out the atempt...its not always the easiest thing to do). If you're lucky enough to get it youll realize that.
No sir. I argue it doesnt. It takes an organization of men, money, and power. With those things and the right contacts it took no genius. And also...ive been saying religion is so great...well id have to say there it isnt. Better hope his god aint the real one! personally im pulling for budda.Quote:
Originally posted by gnu-ehacks
I believe it takes a whole lot of brainpower to do something that extreme.
I thought i might post something on the topic but it appears TrojanGekko has said everything that needs saying. It appears you have this one covered, my friend! Well spoken (if not well spelled ;) ) and well put. I havent read one thing you've said that i myself dont completly agree with, and haven't said to others before.
Well then, it appears i'm just interupting... Carry on. :)
I added Agnostic to the poll, I hope you don't mind.
Agnostic means I am not quite sure what the truth is. There is no religion able to prove it's claims. Christianity cannot show their god. Neither can any other religion. Atheism cannot prove the absence of a god. They 'believe', too. In other values, but they too follow blindly their book. All of them believe. Thats fine if they like it, I won't speak against it. As long as they don't try to force others to believe the same.
As far as I know there is no hint that I could see or hear or feel or smell that a god exists. Likewise, there is no clue that a god cannot exist. There is no fact to tell us if god is christian, muslim, jewish or hindu. Who am I to decide who god is ?
Hmm...Good points TrojanGekko. I agree with most of them, although, you do know that Buddha is not actually considered the "god" of the Buddhists? Buddha was a teacher that taught the basic philosophies of the religion.
I am a Catholic, though I'm pretty lazy and don't go to Church much. But I don't think that it matters how often you rock up on a Sunday, as long as you are a good person.
As I said at FD's
Let me just say though that people here tend to take their beliefs too seriously. Like "I don't believe in God and if you do your ****ing stupid". What's up with that? You can't respect your own beliefs, if you don't respect others.Quote:
don't believe it all, and it's okay to read it and disagree with it. Don't become victims of blind faith. My belief is that if you are a good person, that you love yourself and others, and you try to follow Jesus' example, you have led a faithful life. Being afraid to live your life one way because the Bible says otherwise is wrong. Jesus didn't blindly obey the Torah did he? He was rebel. His message was about peace and love, not repression.
Love is the key to our salvation, no matter what race/creed/colour we follow.
Oh, and if someone could please just point out to me where in 'The Book' it says you shouldnt use certain collections of letters together (for instance **** or **** or *** ... hmmm... It also says nothing about asterix strings either :) ). I think a lot of people mistake "Thou shall not take the lords name in vain." for "Dont cuss you disgusting little infedel." Its not the same. Saying Ohmygod would be considered 'wrong' but it says nothing of any "dirty" words. Though i dont see the difference between 'crap' and '****' as they both refer to the same thing. So why is one of them considered by some to be offensive? I dont get it...
:confused:
People can be illogically strange some times (I'll admit myself included on occasion).
>>>There is no god. religion was created as a means of control of weak minded individuals
There is a god of some sorts (more like a universal oneness... and energy that makes up everything)...
and religion was created as a means of control of weak minded individuals.
Agnostic forever... and a hero for life. Anyone ever read the Varley books (Titan, Wizard, Demon)? Being a hero is important.
Betazep
Well if everyone who ever swore was locked up in jail, there'd be very few people not in jail. However, it's excessive swearing that is not called for. You know like "**** man that was the ****ing **** mother ****er!" every 2 seconds it's "**** this, **** that, **** you". There's no need for it. It doesn't take any brains to swear, and the more you do it, the less intelligence people think you have. I'm not saying don't ever swear, because heck, we all do it, but don't be excessive about it.Quote:
Originally posted by lightatdawn
Though i dont see the difference between 'crap' and '****' as they both refer to the same thing. So why is one of them considered by some to be offensive? I dont get it...
:confused:
My bad. I did know that, but forgot...when I start typing...as you can see from my spelling and what not, I just ramble stuff from my head quicker than is good for me. Its so hard to cover every aspect of what I think I usually just settle for one line of thought and speed through. Im sorry if I offended any buddist whith that mistake. Thats the trouble with communication with me...because you decide to argue something or say something, it appears thats what you think...really, Im usually cursed with seeeing the story from every perspective and not really saying one is better than the other. But its rough to have conversations that way. And it goes against something in me that loves to argue. Im only 19, and I havnt really reigned in that obnoxius me that loves to argue points even if I agree with an oposite point. My natural personality is really a jerk, and sometimes its rough for me to reign him in:)Quote:
Originally posted by gnu-ehacks
Hmm...Good points TrojanGekko. I agree with most of them, although, you do know that Buddha is not actually considered the "god" of the Buddhists? Buddha was a teacher that taught the basic philosophies of the religion.
And nvoigt, I really like your post.
Good point, [stealth]. I don't curse. But I know good people that do. I mean, they are not excessive, but sometimes they let one slip every once in awhile. And when you say a specific one (well, no use in typing it because it will just appear with *'s), you are calling on God to do harm which is a sin. You are just better of keeping it clean.Quote:
Originally posted by [stealth]
Well if everyone who ever swore was locked up in jail, there'd be very few people not in jail. However, it's excessive swearing that is not called for. You know like "**** man that was the ****ing **** mother ****er!" every 2 seconds it's "**** this, **** that, **** you". There's no need for it. It doesn't take any brains to swear, and the more you do it, the less intelligence people think you have. I'm not saying don't ever swear, because heck, we all do it, but don't be excessive about it.
>So does this mean that people who have truly believed that god did not exist, but subsequently realized that they were wrong are still on the path to eternal damnation?
Not at all. Did you not listen to my explanation at all?
>who the **** does it hurt when someone cursers
Quite a lot of people. First of all, I will address the usage of the name Jesus Christ in vain. Don't do that. When you are angry for whatever reason, and say His name in vain, that is my, and all other Christians, Lord and saviour's name you are saying like that. That name certainly does not need to be used that way, and he will hold you accountable at the last day for using His name that way.
No unclean thing can enter the kingdom of heaven. Paul, in his epistles, repeatedly says not to use foul language. Why? It is hurtful in the Lord's eyes. That should be the only reason you need not to use foul language: so not to offend the Lord.
Yes, DavidP is correct. You will be judged on all aspects of how you lived your life. And if you can't see why cursing is wrong then consider this...
Your parents tell you not to curse. You curse. You break the commandment to obey your parents.
So, indirectly, cursing is a sin. And, DavidP, I couldn't have explained it better myself :D
Garfield
There is one thing I fail to understand. (well, many things, but among them...)
>Your parents tell you not to curse. You curse. You break the commandment to obey your parents.
What if they didn't? My parents did when I was younger, but since I've gotten older, they don't care. I swear in front of my parents all the time, and they do likewise.
> No unclean thing can enter the kingdom of heaven.
Define unclean, please. You previously said that the only way not to go to Heaven was to turn your back on God. How do I do that if I use a colloquial term for feces?
Hmm...Let me take a swipe at this swearing issue.
I don't swear, and I don't like to hang out with people that excessively swear either. Now, every swear word, although not prohibited in the Bible, is sinful.
the "f" word means explicit sex, which is prohibited by the Bible.
the "d" word means to condemn to hell, and that is for only God to do.
the "b" word was not originally insulting, but in the context of its worldly use, it is not allowed by the Bible.
I also am trying to stop using slang, because slang is just a replacement for these words...
I support gnu-ehacks' view on swearing. He explained it well. Face it, there is no way around...
Garfield
>Face it, there is no way around...
No way around what? Hell's width berth? Gimme a break. I thought most Christians were coming round to the idea that hell might not actually exist. And why follow the teaching of a book that is loosely based on some supposed events that took part two thousand years ago, which was subsequently 'compiled' in Rome where they were free to put whatever slant on these supposed events that they saw fit.
Look, my friend, whatever you do just don't critisize the Bible.
>> And why follow the teaching of a book that is loosely based on some supposed events that took part two thousand years ago, which was subsequently 'compiled' in Rome where they were free to put whatever slant on these supposed events that they saw fit. <<
What are you thinking? Do you want the Bible to be a history book? A science book? Well, it is neither. It is a book to teach those who want to be taught the ways of Christ. The way to live for eternal life with God.
You have it all wrong...
Garfield
>Look, my friend, whatever you do just don't critisize the Bible.
I'm not, some people tell me it's a fairly good read. I prefer fiction that's a bit lighter, though.
> It is a book to teach those who want to be taught the ways of Christ. The way to live for eternal life with God.
I think that's a matter of opinion (or you might call it faith). As you've stated the bible has neither a historical or scientific basis.
The Bible is actually very historically accurate. I have recently wiped my HD so I don't have any links at the moment, but there is much proof behind the Bible. I'd suggest reading the book "More Than A Carpenter" by Josh McDowell. It gives proof to the Bible's historical accuracy, and the divinity of Christ.
Oh, and the statement that most Christians are starting to believe that there is no Hell...Intersting statement.
Although I am aware of this, these Christians have obviously not thought this theory through enough. What is the point of being saved if there is nothing to be saved from? The existence of Hell is written in the Bible. Jesus spoke more of Hell than any other subject. There would have been no point in Jesus dying on the cross if Hell does not exist.
>whatever you do just don't critisize the Bible.
Why ? Is it so fragile it shatters at the first thought of critisism ?
>I'd suggest reading the book "More Than A Carpenter" by Josh McDowell. It gives proof to the Bible's historical accuracy, and the divinity of Christ.
Well there's a whole host of books at my local book shop that claim to prove lots of different things, but they normally require quite a large leap of faith of their reader. Quite how a book written in the 20th century could prove the 'divinity of Christ' is beyond me. What sort of proof do you mean? Does every copy provide a lifetime supply of loaves and fishes? I have never read it but there is a review here that calls it into question.
I'm sure religious followers of various faiths could probably point out texts that 'prove' something similar.
>Although I am aware of this, these Christians have obviously not thought this theory through enough.
You may well be correct in this. I think perhaps they are having a hard time reconciling what they know of the world in which they live and the world described in the Bible, so suggest that the Hell is something like a metaphor not a physical place. They are acknowledging that the Bible should not be taken literally and this allows them to cling onto their belief even though they may have their doubts.
Hmmm...I guess it isn't the best book for someone that doesn't already hold Christian beliefs.
The Christians that believe that there is no Hell are simply weak Christians. Many people think of every Christian as a Bible thumper and therefore are turned off by them. These weak Christians know this, and they feel that if they compromise with society, then they will fit in. These are the same kinds of people that believe in theistic evolution(the thought that God created evolution). They are compromising the Bible's teachings so that they will be less hated...
I'd like to break something down here:
>>the "f" word means explicit sex, which is prohibited by the Bible.
explicit adj. 4 describing or representing nudity or sexual activity.
So what your saying here is the "f" word (as you so eloquently put it) describes sex. And sex is prohibited by the Bible? ... ... We're all in a lot of trouble.
>>the "d" word means to condemn to hell, and that is for only God to do.
damn adj. 1 An uttered curse [B]2[B] Expressing emphatic annoyance, frustration, approval, etc.
So it depends on you what you want it to mean. If i say 'Damn you to hell' then yes, in fact i am wishing you would go to hell. But if i say 'Damn' when i stub my toe, I am expressing annoyance.
>>the "b" word was not originally insulting, but in the context of its worldly use, it is not allowed by the Bible.
Says where? What about b*tchin stuff? As in: This computer is totally b*tchin! (Not that i would ever say something like that.) What about: 'Stop b*tching'?
>>I also am trying to stop using slang, because slang is just a replacement for these words...
Which all have perfectly legitimate meanings. Why limit yourself to the words you will allow yourself to use?
>>so that they will be less hated...
Its disturbing when i see Christians trying to make out that they're persecuted. Of all the persecution going around (and there's plenty to go around), Christians are the leaders in the field of dishing it out.
Well said. Thank you.Quote:
>whatever you do just don't critisize the Bible.
Why ? Is it so fragile it shatters at the first thought of critisism ?
I just wanted to share this..even though I know it doesnt pertain to all books like this (or i hope not):
This summer two women were going house to house to spread the word of god (or thats what I gathered)...I got inot a discussion with them about drugs and the bible amoung other things...eventually the women told me that she had a book she thought I might like that attempted to prove religion through science. I said great, and a few days later she dropped it off. I wish I could remmeber the name of that book:)
Most of it's arguments were real beauties...'evolution argues that over millions of years small genetic changes slowly evoloved life into more complicated things...such as humans'...there scientific argument against? 'Come on! What the hell are the chances of that? Think how many things would have to occur for that to happen! The luck involved!'
Another was like...science argues the world is billions of years old. Come on? Billions? Do you know how long that is?
It also used some quite outdated theories or twisted theories on physics to argue a bit more. I was actually very very dissapointed. I wished I remebered the name of the book. Its supposed to be quite famous, and written by a pretty famous guy. But it left me sorley dissapointed.
(you religious guys...don't take that as "all those books that try to prove religion with science are jokes"...I'm just saying this one sure was. It made me laugh more than most dilbert books:))
I think you hit the nail on the head on that one! (no pun intended :) ) What I don't understand is why so many believe the bible to contain words of truth, words communicated down from god himself (if Xian).Quote:
>whatever you do just don't critisize the Bible.
Why ? Is it so fragile it shatters at the first thought of critisism ?
However, I have pointed out discrepancies in the bible that even a pastor couldn't explain/defend. People read the bible and take it at face value, and do not question where those words came from...humans. Now whether these humans actually communicated with a greater entity (be it god or something else) is what should be in question.
I will admit, there are many lessons contained in the bible which are important lessons everyone should learn, but the book (in and of itself) is filled with many discrepancies and hypocrisies.
Alright, by explicit sex, I meant fornication, outside of the bounds of marriage.Quote:
Originally posted by lightatdawn
[B]I'd like to break something down here:
>>the "f" word means explicit sex, which is prohibited by the Bible.
explicit adj. 4 describing or representing nudity or sexual activity.
So what your saying here is the "f" word (as you so eloquently put it) describes sex. And sex is prohibited by the Bible? ... ... We're all in a lot of trouble.
>>the "d" word means to condemn to hell, and that is for only God to do.
damn adj. 1 An uttered curse [B]2 Expressing emphatic annoyance, frustration, approval, etc.
So it depends on you what you want it to mean. If i say 'Damn you to hell' then yes, in fact i am wishing you would go to hell. But if i say 'Damn' when i stub my toe, I am expressing annoyance.
>>the "b" word was not originally insulting, but in the context of its worldly use, it is not allowed by the Bible.
Says where? What about b*tchin stuff? As in: This computer is totally b*tchin! (Not that i would ever say something like that.) What about: 'Stop b*tching'?
>>I also am trying to stop using slang, because slang is just a replacement for these words...
Which all have perfectly legitimate meanings. Why limit yourself to the words you will allow yourself to use?
>>so that they will be less hated...
Its disturbing when i see Christians trying to make out that they're persecuted. Of all the persecution going around (and there's plenty to go around), Christians are the leaders in the field of dishing it out.
Well said. Thank you.
I am not a Bible scholar and do not know what the Bible has to say about every word in every context, although, even if it isn't against the Bible to say "b*tching", I still woudln't use it, because of its closeness to the context of the word when it is insulting. I think the same about the word "damn". It may be okay to say, but I will still stay away from it.
Now to slang. They mean the same thing as the words, and as I have just stated, I do not want to say them. I accept that fact that you will say them, but not saying them won't damage me in any way.
>>Its disturbing when i see Christians trying to make out that they're persecuted. Of all the persecution going around (and there's plenty to go around), Christians are the leaders in the field of dishing it out.
I am not saying that I am constantly hated by people. I'm talking about those so called "Bible Thumpers", who try to force you to be a Christian. It's annoying even to me. People HATE these people because they are so annoying. These are the people that call themselves hated.
Now, I understand what you are talking about when you say that "Christians are the leaders in the field of dishing it out." Many Christians do have hate more than any others. But, many Christians also have more love than any others. On the one side, the KKK said they were Christians and slaughtered African Americans. On the other side, Martin Luther King, who's father was a pastor, was PEACEFULLY fighting for civil rights.
If you look at the negative side of things, they will always look bad.
BTW, DrakkenKorin, mind posting some of these discrepencies?
Why cant I critisize the bible......It means jack sh#t to me..... If I were to say you cant critisize war or philosophy that would be obsurd......
Just cuz some people revere that stuff doesnt mean I have to.
Personally, I would like to say live and let live - you want to be a christian....well good luck.....but I hate the idea that christians should want to "convert" me or impress thier ideals on me......that sux
>f word
Just a small tidbit everyone might want to know: The f-word is actually derived from medieval England, it means Fornication Under Consent of the King.
>I also am trying to stop using slang, because slang is just a replacement for these words...
Quite true. It is really the meaning of the word you say that is bad...not the word itself. Therefore, in some cases, replacing a word with another doesnt always work....it is better to replace them...but in some cases its not all the way there...
>where they were free to put whatever slant on these supposed events that they saw fit.
The Bible is very historically accurate for the most part. The Catholic Church, in the medieval ages, however, did have several not so good monks. Some of these monks did omit certain parts in the Bible, but it was mostly just be changing around a word or two, or maybe omitting one phrase, but for the most part there is still at least one reference to about every Christian doctrine there is.
Take baptism for the dead for example. Many are like, "why baptize for dead people?" Check out 1st Corinthians 15:29, and all the verses before that verse.
Now...I want to direct my thoughts to all those people who said that they dont believe in God...so if you are one of them...listen...
I speak unto you who deny the revelations of God, and say that there are no revelations, nor prophets, nor gifts, nor healing, nor speaking with tongues, and the interpretation of tongues.
He who denies these things knoweth not the gospel of Christ. He has not read the scriptures. If he has, he does not understand them.
In the Bible, do we not read the God is unchanging. That he is the same yesterday, today, and forever? That there is no variable in him?
The reason why God ceaseth to do miracles among men is because they dwindle in unbelief, and depart from the right way, and know not the God in whom they should trust.
If you believed in Christ, and read the scriptures, and understood them, and doubt NOTHING, I promise you, that whatsoever you ask of God, in the name of Christ, it shall be granted to you.
>Define unclean, please. You previously said that the only way not to go to Heaven was to turn your back on God.
The Kingdom of Heaven in most cases refers to the highest level of heaven, for it is what we should all aim for. All men, whether they have repented of their sins or not, shall be made clean. If you go through the 1st resurrection when the Savior comes again, youre made clean...that doesnt mean you repented of your sins. But no unclean thing can enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Therefore, you are judged with your sins still with you, and then you are made clean and sent to where you are supposed to go.
If you have been an extravigant sinner and must lie in torment for 1000 years (as it says in Revelations), you are made clean after the 1000 years of Hell. Then you go to where you need to be. Even if you have turned your back on the Holy Ghost and go to Hell for eternity, after 1000 years you are made clean, but then you just go to the place where you deserve because of your actions here on Earth.
Sure, I'll do that by posing a question:Quote:
Originally posted by gnu-ehacks
BTW, DrakkenKorin, mind posting some of these discrepencies?
What are the 10 commandments? (Now I'm not looking for a deep philosophical explination of what they are, I actually mean list them out for me)
After that's done, I'll point out the discrepancy I've yet to get a reasonable explination for.
:)
Let me put it in modern English, for those that find it hard to understand.
you shall have no other gods before me
don't make idols in any form whatsoever
don't say the Lord's name in vain
keep the sabbath day holy
honor your father and your mother
don't murder
don't commit adultery
don't steal
don't lie
don't covet
Okay, so when good'ol Mo comes down from the mountain (Sinai if memory serves), what does he see?
He sees the Israelites worshipping the golden calf.
But, if you look through the Old Testament, especially Judges, you will notice that the Israelites have drifted from God a whole lot...
I don't think that's much of a discrepency though. What is the problem with this?
Bear with me now.
So Mo, see's these heathen's worshiping the golden calf.
O, I forget, what does he do? What is it he says to them?
They weren't Heathens, they were Israelites...
Let's see...I think he broke the stone tablets right? I'm not quite sure, I can't find the verses with this story... :(
I don't really believe in hell, but I do believe it what goes around, comes around. Yes there is certainley a lot of evil around, and in that sense "satan" does exist, but a world where demons poke you with pitchforks and you are in extreme physical pain seems a bit silly to me.
The same goes for the idead of Jesus being conceived while Mary was still a virgin. I do believe that Joseph was his father, and not just looking after Mary. My theory is that Jesus was just a man (born like any other) who was able to reach a higher level of thinking than most people. Something like a savant, but a spiritual savant if you will. If God is everywhere, and we are part of God, why cannot a man reach the level of God? Whatever God may actually be, I don't know, but there must have been some underlying plan in the universe for Jesus to be born and spread his message, and to me the above seems like a plausible explanation given what is known about Jesus' life.
>what does he do?
Breaks the tablets...and ground the calf to powder...
Then he asked Aaron what happened...
>What is it he says to them?
"Who is on the Lord's side? let him come unto me." All the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor."
I am guessing that last quote is the discepency you talk about...I can explain it...I know exactly how to...but it is dinner time...I will explain it in about an hour or so.
All voting to lynch gnu-ehacks for bringing this topic up say 'aye'.
Aye!
>>I do not want to say them. I accept that fact that you will say them, but not saying them won't damage me in any way.
You're perfectly right. It's not like i'm pro-swearing here or anything. I dont think i swear a lot. But i will if i feel like it. I use all words equally. Whatever best describes the current situation/feeling/what-have-you. I bothers me not the least if people choose not to use certain words. I was merely pointing out that theres nothing in the bible saying that you shouldn't. I see a lot of new rules coming from pastors (etc) who are kind of interpeting things. These thoughts turn into "it says in the bible" over a period of time. I've read the bible (several versions in fact, cover to cover) and i can relativly safely say when something has been warped or in any way not exactly what was said. I'm not mocking religions (though i admit it may seem like it at times), my best friend is a Christian (regular church going type).
>>but it was mostly just be changing around a word or two, or maybe omitting one phrase
But consider the consequences of this. What happens when its done again? And again. And then interpeted... And people say that the bible is the exact words of God? How can they say that when its a fact that the current version isnt the same as the versions before it? If its changed it cant be the same!!! So either the old versions weren't the word of god or the new one isnt... So the argument would be that its still holds the same meanings. So its the intents/desires of god. But if thats the case then should you really be taking it all so literally? Whos to say that it wasnt written to be a guidline for life as opposed to factual? The stories may be designed to teach a lesson as opposed to tell history... Think on it.
>What happens when its done again? And again. And then interpeted... And people say that the bible is the exact words of God? How can they say that when its a fact that the current version isnt the same as the versions before it? If its changed it cant be the same!!! So either the old versions weren't the word of god or the new one isnt...
I didnt want to bring my specific SECT of the Christian faith into this...I just wanted to keep it a Christian vs. Athiest kind of thing....but now that you have said that:
Thats where us Mormons come in :)
I will explain in a little bit...dinner time...
Let me try to explain.
There is a difference between murder and killing.
The men were killed because of the things they had done. It is like when a man commits a terrible crime, you kill him. When you murder someone, it is not within the bounds of the law, and it is totally against what the word of God says.
The 10 commandments say Thou shalt not MURDER, not thou shalt not kill.
You guys are too serious...