Designing an MMORPG

I really need help on designing a small mmorpg game. I want to use DirectX and winsock, and I have a basic knowledge of C++, but I don't know where to start. I have plenty of time to learn anything that I would need to learn in order to start/continue the project.
I just don't know where to start. The game will be 2d, since 3d for networking is very complex. Like, what would I start on first? How would I create login and signup options? What kind of database would I use?

Any generalized help/link to resources would suffice :o

www.planetsourcecode.com has a few open source mmorpgs.

www.onrpg.com has some listed too if you look. :)

Those links are great and all, but I need help with making a mmorpg in C++. Which, yes, I know, is a big challenge.

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I really need help on designing a small mmorpg game.

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oxymoron?

You should join a team that's making an MMO as a team, then you'll see how everything is done effeciently and as a group. If not, I would suggest against using WinSock, use RakNet, it is made for game programming, and has a lot of pre-made functions that make your life a lot easier (such as banning IP's, setting passwords, kicking players, etc)

If you're game is going to be 2d then you could consider using SDL instead of directx. SDL is much Simpler to use especially for a beginner.

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Originally Posted by gamingdl'er

Those links are great and all, but I need help with making a mmorpg in C++. Which, yes, I know, is a big challenge.

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Well the hole point of me giving the links is, when you code you learn a lot better then sitting and reading all day. :)

Well good luck and I hope you find a team or use SDL.

You want to avoid 3D because its too complex to network? well like said above try to avoid all complexity then, so dont use DirectX, go for SDL.

That being said there are SDL documentation, tutorials, game code (on the SDL site too), and books all over the internet. This is a heavy subject that you cant expect someone to write out for you here - its meant to be read from a tutorial/book.

If you stick to DirectX.. there are hundreds of books on it, and many specifically for game engines/design/programming. I don't know about a DirectX MMOG Engine book, but theres tons of client side ones. I would start out with a client side one, but thats me, because its a steep learning curve if you dont - especially if you choose DirectX.

Why are everyone opssesed with MMORPGs???
I like FRPG, Dungeons and Dragons, Magic the Gathering!
But everyone just wanna make MMO... Why

It's 'cause of the fame isn't it?
Everyone will know you if they play your MMORPG.

Well anyway making such game is very hard. Try to program something
simplier and then move on to MMO.
If you are going to use 3D graphics try IRRLICHT- open source engine for C++, very simple
For 2D you should either use Allegro or Windows.

Yeah I relize it's going to be a hard project, and I should be in some team. All I wanted was a place to start and a few resources to make things easier. Thanks for referring me to SDL and Raknet, those will probably help tons.

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Originally Posted by ElastoManiac

Why are everyone opssesed with MMORPGs???
I like FRPG, Dungeons and Dragons, Magic the Gathering!
But everyone just wanna make MMO... Why

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Because MMORPG's own FRPG, Dungeons and Dragons, and Magic the Gathering? Becuase you can play with friends and the people you make the game with? Because its online, like mostly everything else now a days? And yes because it would be nice if someone actually played your game, people seem to play multi-player games even if they arent that great (cough* runescape) - and how many would play a bad single-player game? I want to make an MMORPG too, but I'm willing to put years in of making client-side ones, and learning more, first though.

I wouldn't mind making a game like Morrowind (single-player) either though.. ahh such a lovely game. Oblivion... *gets tingly*

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Originally Posted by ElastoManiac

Why are everyone opssesed with MMORPGs???
I like FRPG, Dungeons and Dragons, Magic the Gathering!
But everyone just wanna make MMO... Why

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Probably because these games are becoming more popular then ever before, even amongst people who would have never previosly touched an RPG.

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Originally Posted by Dae

(cough* runescape)
I wouldn't mind making a game like Morrowind (single-player) either though.. ahh such a lovely game. Oblivion... *gets tingly*

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I think RuneScape sucks too!
And i'm a great fan of Obliivon!

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Originally Posted by Quantum1024

Probably because these games are becoming more popular then ever before, even amongst people who would have never previosly touched an RPG.

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I noticed that most FPS players nowdays are playing Tibia.
Strange... But that won't last for long.

Yeah, even if your mmorpg is slow, and has sucky graphics, if the world is big and the gameplay is somewhat interesting, people will play it.
I'd just like to design a small one with expandable features. Where I can update it, add new content, and have my friends enjoy it(because they'll enjoy any mmorpg, even super crappy ones, and call it good). And I'm also willing to put in all the time needed to learn the required skills to create it.

Well tell what you know todo currently, and i'l tell you what to learn and how...

Well, I know basic C++(pointers, arrays, all that stuff :P), I know how to set up a game window. I know how to make a tiny pong game in DirectX. I know how winsock works because I've used it in VB6.

And those are the things I know the best. I have a book on other topics as well. Like DirectX fundamentals, 3D programming, etc.
Not very much, but like I said, I have plenty of time

Well you know just about all you need to.
Why not start making that MMO.
If you need a 2d artist or programmer, i'm willing to help.

First thing you need to do is create a website for the game, and a fourm
- so you can talk to the people that are willing to help you.

Even if you are gonna make this alone, all MMOs have websites, they must
report news about servers and stuff...

I don't know much about creating web sites, but if you wanna free space
check out geocities. Or something, just for temporarly use.
You can later buy domain...

www.gamingdl.com is a blog and game database Im working on. I'm coding that all by myself including it's forums. I actually didn't know much about webdesign till I started on it, and now it looks really nice.

Thats what I plan to do with this online rpg.
Plus help would be great.

No offense, but it sounds like the blind leading the blind here...

Just to let you know you should up the limit on your email registration on your site, my email is nore than 20 characters so I cant register you should make it like 40. Just a thought but I am looking forward to you game. I am currently learning C++ and stuff associated with it so, if it is a windows only program I am happy to help if you want my help..

Well I wish you the best of luck on your project, just remeber if you gota redo your hole code 3 or 4 times don't give up. It happens on big projects. Well I hope you pre-planed story lines, char. concept art and all of the other goodies needed for a good mmorpg. Have you already saved up for a server?

I have an extra computer with T1 that can be a server. And I have planned some of the story line. Graphics and concept art is what Im going to find someone else for.

Hey, sounds like a good idea. I would be willing to help since I have been trying to find some programming project for a while now. I know the Win32 API well, have a decent knowledge of Winsock, and some knowledge of OpenGL(I know we wouldn't be using that, unless you wanted to). I wouldn't have TONS of time to give up for it, because of school(get out of school at 3 PM on weekdays).

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Originally Posted by ElastoManiac

Why are everyone opssesed with MMORPGs???
I like FRPG, Dungeons and Dragons, Magic the Gathering!
But everyone just wanna make MMO... Why

It's 'cause of the fame isn't it?
Everyone will know you if they play your MMORPG.

Well anyway making such game is very hard. Try to program something
simplier and then move on to MMO.
If you are going to use 3D graphics try IRRLICHT- open source engine for C++, very simple
For 2D you should either use Allegro or Windows.

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Thats why Richard Garriot did it, and he made the sweetest MMO ever :D

SDL, SDL, SDL, SDL - Allegro, Allegro, Allegro.

That's all I ever hear.

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"DirectX is too hard"

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Usually this comes from hearsay and the people saying it don't know poo about actually using it.

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"Use SDL, it's easier"

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If you are looking for easy then go code Tic Tac Toe. Read my lips. Game programming is NOT easy. If you want easy you are not a game programmer.

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"With SDL you don't have to worry about all the underlying hard stuff...."

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You mean like how the DirectX API works? How COM works. Great so now we can code using a wrapper for an API even though we don't know anything about the underlying API. Nice. Mark my words: Use SDL and eventually you will outgrow it. It cannot and will not support everything you want to do. Buy some books on DX or GL. Even if you are using GL for graphics I would use DX for sound, input, etc. Learn them.

So in closing:

Damn people, just use DirectX or OpenGL.

I'm getting testy about this because I think people are talking out of their hershey highway. I don't think some of you have even tried DX or GL to even say anything about either one of them. Both are extremely useful API's and you should know the underlying structures and mechanisms that make them tick. DirectX is a complete god-send when it comes to games. It used to suck and it used to be convoluted. But as of DX 9.0, most of the convolution has been fixed.

Use it. I know I'm not going to buy or load a game on my system when the programmers didn't know how the thing even worked. You think game companies just use some library and take no thought for how it works? They use libraries, yes, but they also know they could code their own if needed - but they don't have the time or manpower to do so. But they DO know how to code and they DO understand how it all works. If not they won't be around long.

Using a wrapper for an API to avoid learning the API is ludicrous. Using it to save time, money, and resources is usually wise.

And another thing. Coding a game engine that can actually do a single player RPG is hard enough. Add the multi-player aspect to it and you have yourself a complex project even for the extremely seasoned veteran.

Do you guys even know how much code that adds to a program. Do you have any idea of the problems it presents?
Do you have the resources to overcome these problems and/or the knowledge.
Do you have any understanding of how/where you are going to store the resources/caches?
Do you have any understanding of how to implement a scripting language to implement quests and/or a script generator system to do it on the fly?
Do you have any idea how you are going to sync the games and how you are going to respond to errors in syncing and/or errors in transmissions?
Do you know how you are going to handle the server load so that the game doesn't slow to a crawl?

I think you guys would be better served by creating a single player game and getting it right before you attempt an online role playing game. Several companies with much better programmers than us have tried and completely failed.

Having 'some' knowledge of winsock will get you nowhere. You have to know more about multi-player than just how to do the winsock stuff. Winsock is cake, but the problems to be solved in an MMORPG are not cake and have more to do with your approach than actually interfacing with Winsock.

Get real guys. Code something that you can actually complete in this lifetime with the manpower and resources you have.

Good enthusiasm but direct it a bit.

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Using it to save time, money, and resources is usually wise.

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Exactly, most of the people here, including me, are hobbists. We program in our spare time because we like programming games, and the engines and other wrappers we use let us do so in the least amount of time, with usually a better result than if we would have used OpenGL or DirectX.

I'm not saying you don't have a valid point, but, you have to take into account that a lot of hobbyist game programmers don't have the time or patience to learn an API such as DirectX or OpenGL.

I personally hate wrappers and stuff like SDL, that's why I never bothered with it. I have started into DirectX just a little bit, and more so into OpenGL. OpenGL seems easier to use than DirectX, although I don't know why it would. Must be that OpenGL wasn't developed and pushed by Microsoft, as was DirectX. ;)
(I actually like Microsoft, but they have a habit of making things more complex than they need to be)

I agree with Bubba. I also think in the long run it would be better to learn DirectX or OpenGL. Honestly whats the point of learning about these "data structures" when you use simplified wrappers that don't require you to ever use them. With that, I've decided to read a DirectX game programming book. I find the biggest problem is that most of the concepts I learn in what I read is that I have nothing to impliment them on - so its harder for me to remember them.

I was only planning on testing and making a single-player game. But if you guys decide to use DirectX and Win32 then I would love to help too. I have intermediate experience with C++, win32, and some winsock/opengl experience. I actually just started getting back into C++ so I should get much better soon ;). Of course DirectX would be harder, but it would be much more rewarding, and better to spend time learning. Also note that using Direct3D and not OpenGL would get you used to using DirectX, so you wouldn't need to learn SDL and some other sound library.

Obviously right now it seems like the blind leading the blind, but its not like anyone here is expecting a retail game out of it or something :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by sand_man

No offense, but it sounds like the blind leading the blind here...

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:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by sand_man

:rolleyes:

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:rolleyes:

-venting start-

Obviously the only people that have posted so far are blind mice, myself included, but its just people reading, learning, and contributing to one game instead of seperate games. I fail to see how working in a group to make one game is worse than when Bubba or you (I assume) learned from books and started making engines/games. I also got the vibe that this wasn't recruitment for a serious project, and would be overjoyed if we made an engine that looked like Runescape in 2 years.

Its obvious that it would take a lot of time, and I have seen that Bubba has taken a lot of time to learn DirectX. I see his posts about it go as far back as 2002 or so, and yet his engine is still in development. (of course he lost some in a format).

But you do realize the idea is not like the thread title implies right? Its a simple online game, which is done as a hobby and not for retail. Its not the next World of Warcraft. How is 3 people, who would be looking for more, learning to program c++/DirectX/winsock and pulling it together into one project not worth doing? Many lone programmers out there learn and make single player games, and yes online would be a huge step forward, but thats why its a group project. Group learns as they go, and contributes as they go.

On top of that the OP wants a 2D game, and possibly wants to use wrappers and many libraries. Thats not so out there..

Just thought I'd clarify my idea of what this topic represents (not that wanna-be join a noob group trying to make an Everquest and get rich kind of project) Maybe we should all just wait until our third year in university where a prof who has seen the light can teach us, or at least hope because many profs send you off to use resources (sort of what we got going here *wink* *wink*).

-venting over-

Understand me here. I applaud your vision and your desire to make an MMORPG and I personally think that one day indie companies with similar desires will produce better and more in-depth games than the big boys. Indie companies are not usually limited by guys in suits who don't have a clue what a game or designing a game is all about. Indie companies can produce better games but won't produce as many games, which is not a bad thing given that 75% of what you see on your local Wal-Mart shelf is crap that is churned out by the copy-cat wannabes targeting people like you and me.

However there is a sad reality. Games take time to program and take time to get done right. I used to be of the opinion that more realistic means more fun, but I've changed my mind. Just because it's more like this world we live in does not mean it's going to be any more fun than say living your life - which for the most part is quite anti-climactic. So you don't have to have the latest and greatest physics or the most awesome graphics for the game to be fun.

In fact, how many of you have played some 3D games and afterwards you were like......blech. All the pretty graphics and all the sounds didn't change your opinion of the crappy game hidden underneath.

So my point here is it can be done by people like you and me, however, we are going to have to produce something that the big boys either do not have time for or cannot make money at.
They cannot afford to make games that take forever to create and they cannot put everything they want into it in order to make their milestone builds. But you and I don't depend on a paycheck when we develop our own and so we are not limited by that. In fact we are only limited by our imagination and our skillset.

So build your skillset, build your knowledge and above all get the game design right so that when you code it - it will be fun. Fun can make up for a whole lot in a game - including the latest and greatest flashy graphics. I read a review of Black and White 2 and although it pushes the hardware to the max, the overall feeling was that it was not fun. That is not what you want.
Get books from amazon about the technology and how to do this or that and you can code your game. However, play some common games out there now to find out what you like, don't like, or would like to change. Once you get a feel for what's out there and what's been done then you can begin to eek out your own new style or your own new game. Design is everything. Lack of design is like not having a roadmap in an unfamiliar city. Design your game to be fun, not tiring, not boring, and not burdensome. Make your interface clean, crisp, sharp, flashy and above all easy to use.

Anyone who wants to create a game must have desire, passion, and commitment. After some time of coding the game gets old and the flame of creativity begins to be smothered out by the reality of actually coding it.

It's not that you cannot do it or shouldn't try, but please gather all the knowledge, commited coders, designers, creators, etc,. that you can. My best wishes to you in this endeavour and I hope you succeed. You can do this thing, but you are going to need a lot more than you have now or could imagine having at this moment.

Now go code.

And my 3D engine is alive and kicking. I sent early copies to my dev team and so we did have some backups for it. Also the new editor is coming along quite well. I haven't coded in DirectX for quite some time now - it's all been Win32 and MFC and I'm looking forward to dumping this crappy device context crapola as soon as possible. This DC to that DC to select this Bitmap into this DC......blech....I hate that stuff but it has to be done to make tools in the Windows environment.

If you are looking for a 2D game for this RPG I'm making an editor for just such a thing. The editor supports multiple layer tilemaps with transparency for tiles, movement maps, scripting, object creation, waypoints, bounding boxes, and on-screen animation. Or let's say those are the goals of the editor.

And my 3D engine would have been done by now except I keep trying the latest and greatest wiz bang thingy and really don't get anywhere on the actual game.

But if you would like to use the editor I would be more than glad to give you a copy. And I would also provide the source code for the editor to your dev team so you could alter it as you see fit. I don't normally do this and I could put a shareware license on it (which I might) but I made it to aid our team and I know it would help yours. I'll let you know when it's at least usable.

Yeah... I was just looking to make a game like the ones you see in Intro to Direct3D. I know what it takes, and I cannot, and do not want to make an MMORPG.

I don't know what Bubba and sand_man see in the other posts that makes them think this is some homebrew retail MMORPG. If you look the OP, myself, Raigne, and jmd15 were just looking for a project to work on, online, and able to have a few friends on. The title was obviously misleading and lead to ElastoManiac, and dimirpaw, posting about getting started on an MMO when they aren't the ones that were interested, and I'm not sure understand what it would actually take to make one (what Bubba said, plus years of experience, and financial backup).

This thread really is not making much sense to me. This is really the simple truth, a person alone CANNOT make a MMORPG by themselves, nor can a team of 15 people, with out decades or so of work, on average a MMO team consists of around 100 people, these are not regualr people, these people are the best at programming, grapic design, 3D graphic artists, 2D graphic design, 2D graphic artists, music composer, game designers, producers, supervisors, that is to name a few and most likely have had a passion and desire for it unlike those of us who just program in our downtime for something to do. Im not saying it is impossible for us to make games I am just saying that for an average person (not a rich person) this feat is not really plausible, I mean look at the facts, you have to buy servers, or pay for servers from other companies, and you have to organize a Dev Team, Design every aspect of the game from the names of the different plants, to the design of the stars in the sky, then most really good programmers are going to want to be paid, there are those times when your server system crashes and you have to buy new ones. MMO's are not something we as ordinary people amke but really big rich companies. Such companies are Sony(EverQuest), Mythic(DAoC), Sony (EverQuest2), whoever made ragnarok, thsoe are big companies, they have something we dont money.

Now if you want to change your Idea of this and go for making a single player game yes I will be glad to help, but give up on a MMO unless you get hired by a big companies or Funded by them. That is really all i had to say thanks for your time.

Also referring to the first post, there is NO such thing as a small MMORPG

I'm really struggling here Bubba. I've found at least 3 good books, and 3 good tutorials on OpenGL. However, I've only managed to find one book with a good rating/review for DirectX, "Introduction to 3D Game Programming With DirectX 9.0" - which gets a 5 star rating even though its actually about Direct3D. The others are either quick mock ups, have major errors and such, plainly just aren't that good, or are in C# and still not that good. "Advanced 3D Game Programming Using DirectX 9.0" doesn't get a great review, but I could settle and read that one too, or "Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus (2nd Edition)" even though its poorly written and by.. LaMothe. Do you have any recommendations? even if it requires me to settle on one thats okay.

Well, you could use openGL for graphics, then use DirectX for sound? If you narrow down what you want to learn about directx then you prolly will find better results. If you a good C++ programming book, then get Cprogramming Language by the creator of C++ (dont know how to spell his entire name) I think it is listed in teh books section of the cprogramming site. just a few thoughts nothinbg fancy tho.

Yeah, I couldn't find good results for Direct3D either. If I were going to use OpenGL, then I would use SDL and possibly OpenAL.

That would be funky.. using OpenGL for graphics, and DirectSound for sound - does that even work? I guess it would, but the purpose seems lost, and what for input? SDL.

Its "The C++ Programming Language" by Bjarne Stroustrup, and its more of a reference than a learning guide. I personally already have my C++ book, "C++ Primer Plus" (ed. 5).

Yes some games use both, I would use DirectX for input as well, the purpose would be that OpenGL is alot easier code than DirectX, I was just stating a opinion.

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Originally Posted by Raigne

Yes some games use both, I would use DirectX for input as well, the purpose would be that OpenGL is alot easier code than DirectX, I was just stating a opinion.

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My opinion would be that if you are spending time to learn how to code DirectSound/Input, then coding Direct3D would not be such a far leap as to go and code OpenGL. Of course I've never coded DirectInput/Sound though so maybe they are 10 times easier. But then why not just use SDL. It would seem like a waste, if I were making a serious game, to use a multi-platform graphics library, and not use a multi-platform sound/input library. But anyway, it doesn't really matter to me much because I plan to learn them all eventually.

Hmm.. I don't care about that right now anyway. I really wanna know Bubba's opinion on a Direct3D/X book. I'm going to bed.

aye night man, waht you say makes since tho

i think it's quite diffrent. U don't need to have the money to buy the servers u just need to fing an investor. That's how it works.

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Originally Posted by Dae

:rolleyes:

-venting start-
...

-venting over-

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It's just, I'm a student and what I learn is the extensive procedures that go into design, implementation and maintenance of software and what I also know is that MMO anything, RPG especially, is one of the most complex systems you could design. Put a few game programming noobs together who don't even know whether to learn DirectX or SDL and look at what you have? You are bound to fail before you start.

its completely possible to make an MMORPG on your own.. its been done many times before. you dont need a team of 100+ people, heres an example:

http://www.xenimus.com (i know it may not seem like the best graphics, but the site hasnt been updated in 4 years. the ingame graphics are much better)

that game was created by one guy, its not as fancy as EQ 2 or WoW but the gameplay is pretty good.

I haven't really used DirectX at all as of yet, so if I am to be helping on this project, I will need a little bit of time to read up on it. Then I can learn as I go. From this thread alone, it looks like we could assemble a team of a few programers. In the end, it should be about having fun, learning, and experiementing.

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a small mmorpg game

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Yeah, sure. How about not starting with the biggest project you could find ? Like Bubba said, I like your enthusiasm, I just think you should channel it into something that actually has a chance.

Good to hear you werent too depressed to quit your engine, Bubba, but its just too bad about losing those GTA saves :p... .. So what is the purpose of the 2D editor anyway? with your 3D engine in the works and all I assume its a seperate project.. that is in progress for some reason.

Thats sweet, X PaYnE X. Of course he's got a lot more training and experience though.

I'll also need to study DirectX while we make it too. Looks like two of the others that volunteered would need to study some more C++ too. Should be fun though.

Lets see if gamingdl'er, ElastoManiac, Raigne, myself, and jmd15 can meet in IRC sometime soon. Maybe tomorrow night 7pm PST, or sometime friday to make sure everyones available.

I also like gamingdl'er's enthusiasm for "small mmorpg" or online, but I don't it would be a good idea to rule out making a single-player game instead. So far I know myself and Raigne would prefer single-player. I don't know if we could port it to be multi-player (we'd have to think ahead on many things), but since we wont be reading a DirectX book on multi-player games, but one on single-player games, it would be a hassle to skip to multi-player. Thats just my opinion, and something we could talk about if we meet on IRC.

Well, if you can get all of them together and set for a specific time I can be online just about anytime.

Sounds good, I too can be online at almost anytime except on weekdays before 3:30 PM (Eastern(Michigan) Time). A single-player game to start does sound like a good route. I mean, if we really wanted to(after making the single player game) we could try and port it to online play. I can use Winsock fairly well, so other internet libraries shouldn't be hard to get the hang of. The pressing matter, for me(and it sounds like Dae too), is learning DirectX and getting proficient with it. This does sound like it will be a fun project with all of us working together on it. We should set a time and date to meet on an IRC.

The 2D editor is for a fan game I'm working on at the moment. I came to a dead-end with XSpace because I cannot create 3D models - essentially I suck at building them. So I faced the fact that I'm an engine programmer, not a 3D model maker and was waiting to gather some people to work on it. I could probably code the program again from memory but I really need to invest time in the editor. MFC is a confuzzled mess but it does get the job done and it's far better than pure Win32, although MFC often falls short in the GUI functions that it supports. Frequently I find myself calling the API to do this or that.

XSpace is not dead per se, but it is for now. I had another game which was an asteroids clone but I was re-writing the sprite code because although ID3DXSprite is a nice interface, it has no support for actually getting to the vertex data of the sprites. So it's hard to build a bounding box for your sprites.

I'm still hard at work on the editor and I'll let you know when it is ready.

While you're around Bubba, any books you'd recommend for DirectX?

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Originally Posted by Dae

I'm really struggling here Bubba. I've found at least 3 good books, and 3 good tutorials on OpenGL. However, I've only managed to find one book with a good rating/review for DirectX, "Introduction to 3D Game Programming With DirectX 9.0" - which gets a 5 star rating even though its actually about Direct3D. The others are either quick mock ups, have major errors and such, plainly just aren't that good, or are in C# and still not that good. "Advanced 3D Game Programming Using DirectX 9.0" doesn't get a great review, but I could settle and read that one too, or "Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus (2nd Edition)" even though its poorly written and by.. LaMothe. Do you have any recommendations? even if it requires me to settle on one thats okay.

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I can't decide because I'm going to have to pick one of the not-that-great, but one-of-the-best, books eventually, and I'm not sure which.

Dae, what compiler do you use? I'm fighting with Dev-C++ to try and make it work with DirectX. I looked at some books on DirectX and a lot of them don't seem too helpful. I might just stick with online tutorials for this one. Found some pretty cool OpenGL books though.

www.gamedev.net

Look at their books section.

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Originally Posted by jmd15

Dae, what compiler do you use? I'm fighting with Dev-C++ to try and make it work with DirectX. I looked at some books on DirectX and a lot of them don't seem too helpful. I might just stick with online tutorials for this one. Found some pretty cool OpenGL books though.

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VC++ 6, but I would really hate to use that for this project because 1) we would probably all need to use the same compiler, and VC++ 6 isn't free, and 2) VC++ 6 is crap. It'd be nice if we all had Visual Studio 2005 >.< - but it looks like we're stuck with Dev-Cpp. I haven't gotten to the code in my DirectX book yet, but theres got to be a way to get it to work in Dev-Cpp :-/.

OpenGL and DirectX are essentially the same, but so far the advantages/disadvantages go as so:

OpenGL: - ability to be multi-platform, which is a benefit in a serious game, but in ours I doubt we would be porting it to a different platform.
- some nice open source games, and general code, at nehe.gamedev.net.
- good documentation and tutorials.
- slightly easier to learn.
- a disadvantage would be having to use the GLUT wrapper, imo, because its old and I dont want to learn it.
- an advantage, and disadvantage, would be learning Qt instead of GLUT, which is a very good wrapper, but harder to learn.

Direct3D: - included in DirectX and would make the overall game easier to make not having to worry about SDL or wrappers.
- more books dedicated to game programming.
- might require a microsoft compiler

I'm starting to sway in which one I want to learn. Its such a hard choice eh.

Well if everyone else has windows XP (I dont im stuck with ME) then you guys can get Microsofts Visual Studio 2005 Express ( It is free and downloads relativily fast from microsoft. I would just be stuck with dev c++ until I get my new OS (new comp lol). I just wont bealbe to get into help coding any of the OpenGL stuff until after i get my new comp. Hoepfully not to long from now) and as far as Dev C++ goes (I think it supports openGL) not sure tho. Up until my OpenGL quit on me the Dev C++ compiler compiled the example programs and such with no problem.

I didn't think we we're going to use OpenGL? Dev-C++ does support OpenGL, I have used it before. I have Windows XP and a laptop with 98. For 2D graphics, I don't think OpenGL would be the best choice. If it was 3D graphics I would definitely want to go with OpenGL.

Well I figured if everyone agreed with doing single-player, then going 3D wouldn't be a problem - in fact it would be better.

We should dicuss all this in IRC though, opengl vs directx, etc. Me and Raigne are in Major_Smalls #tech, and in #C++. Too bad the OP isn't around atm.

Could you send me the IRC IP address and port number?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bubba

...because although ID3DXSprite is a nice interface, it has no support for actually getting to the vertex data of the sprites. So it's hard to build a bounding box for your sprites.

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That's strange, I would have thought that would be basic functionality.

Well check the docs. I cannot find one interface function that actually lets you access the underlying vertices. So it came down to creating my own set in software and updating them as well. But I thought, if I'm doing that then what advantage is their to using ID3DXSprite? None. So I coded my own version and it actually ran better than the D3DX one.

The way I alter the bounding boxes after rotating is to rotate the quad and re-create the bounding box from the new vertices. It does not work to just rotate the bounding box because the box might expand or contract based on the object. But if you cannot get to the vertex data then how are you supposed to do this?

I have no idea. Now you see why I dumped it.

Nice interface, but not the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElastoManiac

I noticed that most FPS players nowdays are playing Tibia.
Strange... But that won't last for long.

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lol tibia is a cool game if you site down and play it not to fab but
its a fun pking game lol

If anyone wants to contact me about developing this, we need 2 extra programmers. Please do so, MSN [email protected], and my aim is spyninjax3, if you have niether of those, I'm also on spyninjax2 on yahoo. We have an artist.

Trillian r0x0rs.

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Originally Posted by gamingdl'er

Trillian r0x0rs.

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Haven't disagreed with anything more than this.

...and AIM sucks too. Come to think of it, all messengers suck. But I prefer the poison of MSN.

I like the convience of trillain.