Prog. Langauge Questions Relating to Game Programming

I've been programming in C++ for a year now(C for about half of it). I want to learn a new langauge and come back to C++ if I see a need to. I want to use a language that's good for Game Programming.

(I don't want to start a flame war). Is C# more productive than C++ in terms of game programming when not using Visual C# .net(I need a free compiler not sure which one yet). I heard it's like Java, are the languages similar? I guess what I'm asking is, what's an easy language that is more productive than C++ for Game Development for the most part I might make a few apps with it.

I've articles regarding the 3 but I still can't choose. Any useful article link regarding this questions will be helpful.
Thir is really importatn to me.

Thanks in advance for any help I might recieve.

Quote:

---

what's an easy language that is more productive than C++ for Game Development

---

C

I've already used C, it's not much different than C++ in a lot of things. I'm more looking for something differnt than easy, I just want to make games without all the difficulty(well not difficulty more like time consuming) as C++ and C.

Hmm... do you mean like a language designed for making games? Well, the Google directory has a nice section about game development (I guess it's nice :D).

http://directory.google.com/Top/Game..._and_Software/

That should be of use. It has some programs that have languages for making games. I don't see the point though, I'd probably go with C/C++.

- SirCrono6

Quote:

---

I just want to make games without all the difficulty

---

I highly doubt you'd get very far with that attitude, no offense, but you can try visual basic or dark basic

I don't see a reason why I won't get far with that. Well for now I won't because I want to use a langauge that's not difficualt to learn(C++ wasn't difficualt to learn, just time consuming) I want one that's as easy as C++ but not as time consuming. I just want to learn a language that can be useful, I read a lot of business programming requirements and a lot of them don't use C++, the use things like VB and C#, I do want to focus on game programming which is my point, but I think it would be useful to learn something else. I don't want to have to always use a whole bunch of libraries all the time, I do make my own but that's even more time consuming. So if I feel I needed C++ for the speed or some other reason for a certain program I would use it, if I feel I should use Java or C#(I have to know to know if I want to use it) I could use that. And I would have more knowledge of different langauges also.

So I want to make a few games that with the langauge I chose won't take as long as it would with C++. I'm mainly wondering right now is if C# or Java is more suited for game development. I definitely will use C++ in the future but fo rnow I want to learn another language for reasons stated above.

I will look for more info(I already have looked for a few hours). I might use C# if it's good for game dev and if I can find a good free IDE almost as good as Visual C#, if it takes away from the productivity it has, then it defeats the whole point of using it. I don't want to buy that just yet. Is there a reason to use Java it you don't want to program all of your games as applets?

Thanks anyways for the replies.

Quote:

---

I just want to make games without all the difficulty

---

Impossible. Period.

Lose this attitude and you will do much better.

As far as game programing goes - C/C++ and assembly. Period.

Job specifications call for programs like Vb & similer due to the high need for UI and low need for efficiency. Java, VB, C##, J++ they all have something in comon, suckness for size/efficiency. With some sense of irony, game programming is EASIEST with C/C## becuase you have better(faster/efficient) code that can handle your content faster(better/efficiently) but its still not an EASY job.. Programming is not an EASY hobby. Deal with it.

Making games without difficulty? Have you tried the Games Factory? :)

In my second post I said I don't mean easy. Just as easy as C++ but not as much things you have to do, not just higher.

I WILL use C++ later if I feel the need to. I don't really care if it's the most used language(well I do, I mean the most use language other than C++).

My 2 questions are.

Is Java useful if you're not going to be using applets that much?

Is C# good for games(meaning does it take less time to code games)?

About that game factory, I care more about programming than making games(not playing them). but I want to program mostlyY games, but some toehr apps too.

That's what I'm asking. I think C++ is easy. It was my second language(C was my first, learned it when I was 13)
I just want to try something else that's as good for game programming. Just to try it out, so I can have a higher knowledge of different languages(I've only done C and C++). I don't care if it's a little bit slower, because I don't plan on doing 3D games soon(I don't think I know enough math).

I still might stick with C++. I don't really know where I want to go right now in terms of programming. I want to program games and also some apps occasionally. I think I might just take a break from C++ and in a month or less I will pick up a good(possibly free book). I was hoping to learn another language for a while. I will stick with C++, unless I find a good C# ide and think it's good for games. I just don't know. I do want to program rts and if it's to slow I might not be able to. Although I still want to program small games.

Tjat wasn't a very well thought out post, but in short I don't know what I want to do.

Quote:

---

C##

---

eh?

I think that you will find there is no real quick way to make a game. I found that the fastest way to 'make a game' was to make maps for the half life (well, glquake) game engine, which involved no programming whatsoever. If you want to actually *program your own games*, then you'll find that visual basic will only help with designing the layouts, but actually programming the playable game will be more difficult than you thought.

EDIT:

Quote:

---

As far as game programing goes - C/C++ and assembly. Period.

---

I don't know about assembly, in fact for a newbie I'd say stay away from it, and it is true C and C++ are more difficult to make win32 stuff with, but they're still ultimately the best. However, like I said, look more at visual basic and darkbasic. Java would probably be good to look into as well. Heck, you can even make some stuff with qbasic if you want.

EDIT1: I think you'll find that not a ton of people on these boards have used Java for making games (although I'm sure a few have) and even less for C#. Also remember that in order for c# to run the client must have the .net framework, which is a pain in the ass (nobody will download the .net framework to run your game)

Ok thanks for the reply. I might just continiue with C++.

Basically if you want fast games, you'll use C++ and DirectX/OpenGL. Thats your best choice, period. Prepare yourself for headaches and thousands of lines of code just for a framework of your game.

If you want to make a game quickly and without much hassle, you'll use C# using GDI+ (its not that terribly slow, but still :)). DirectX still isn't 100% compatible with C# and even when it is, it won't be as fast as if you were using C++. Prepare yourself for low efficiency and speed loss.

Unless you want to make web games where you could choose Flash, Macromedia, or Java, C++ is your choice. In general, C# is more productive for general-purpose applications.

If you don't want to spend lots of money on VS.NET, I suggest you get SharpDevelop (free C# IDE: http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/) and download the free .NET SDK from Microsoft.

I've pretty much decided(not sure really). I just downloaded C# builder(surprised it was free) and I'm going to try out C#. I will probably also look into that #develop. If I think it's good, I will continue using it, and using C++ if I want better performance.

So I plan to use both of them. Unless I don't like C# then I would stick wtih C++ until probably C# 2.0 comes.

If you find gameprogramming overwhelming try to get a better structure on it. As an example, before starting on the actual game make a graphics class that does things like drawing sprites and stuff with simple commands, like Graphics.DrawSprite(int X, int Y, MYSPRITE Sprite);

Then when designing the actual game you don't have to dive into DirectX details. Also, this graphics class (engine) can be used for other games you make too.

But as a newbie start with QBasic. There are several 3rd party libraries out there that will help you put sound and better graphics in your game.

Game programming has many facets all of which are not solely based on the fact that you can indeed put it all together and make it work. Getting it all to work is about 1/3 of it, making it fun and entertaining is about 2/3 of it.


Any game project will present you with enough problems to turn you into a very very good programmer.


For the technical portion here is a start of what you should be concentrating on:

Graphics
Sound
Music
Fast input
Framerate

Before you start working on another game make sure your first is a completed project and make sure it has sound and/or music and looks polished. This is prob the most important part of game programming - finishing the darn thing.

The only language other than C/C++ that I would EVER consider making a game with is Python.

I have a small asteroids game coded entirely in QuickBasic 7.1 that uses the Future library for sound. Unfortunately the Future library only allows one sound to be played at a time and there is no way to retrieve samples, mix them in a buffer, and send the buffer to Future to play.

It is very possible to code this in QBasic. I also programmed a complete 3D editor in QBasic but since have lost it somewhere - and it used matrix mathematics to work its magic. Anything is possible in any language, but QBasic does have severe limitations. When you find that you cannot implement your game ideas with your language of choice or it would take some very strange code to do so, change languages. C is your best bet but don't underestimate QBasic. With the ability to link in quick libraries and assembly modules as well as C modules it can also be very powerful.

Quote:

---

than C/C++ that I would EVER consider making a game with is Python.

---

I am a lover of python to man, but I dont think it will ever become fast enough in execution and operating speed to even think of competing with C++. Python however is really really nice for developing layouts and pretty much every other type of app, or acting as an algorithm analyzer.

I personally think C# has quite a future in game programming. It's currently ~98% of the speed of C++(forgot the link, was somewhere on /.), and can cut production times of most applications by 20%(now this comes from listenning to people who have converted entire programming teams to C#). It also will probably be better on the next microsoft OS.

Now for the badsides: while there is an implementation on linux, it is very very rudimentary and doesnt have even a portion of the bells and whistles of the MS version. This means that you are pretty much saying shove it to a pretty vocal community in the computer world that is growing fast with European and the Asian countries leaving microsoft for linux.

I'm talking about simple games. I wouldn't code a full 3D engine in python or anything like that. For simple games like Metroid clones or vertical/horizontal shooters and such, it is a fast enough language.

although you'll give up vb pretty quickly (because it's darn hard to get decent framerates) it's very useful for learning the concepts behind game programming. things such as 2d collision detection, key input, ummmm movement (including acceleration, vectors, and other things). i made a very cool game (vb was my first prog language) in vb called tank game. it was a lot like space invaders except it had a tank shooting down paratroopers and once they lost their parachute they fell faster. it was awesome! basically to make games in vb you need to know the syntax (very easy, you can pick it up in a day or 2) and how to use timers and key input (both of which are also very easy). after you learn some basics in vb and get bored come back and learn win32 and directx or opengl (although i think personally i'd suggest opengl first)

Quote:

---

although you'll give up vb pretty quickly (because it's darn hard to get decent framerates) it's very useful for learning the concepts behind game programming

---

Even though I despise VB, that is a pretty good reason to use it. It can be very helpful in getting some algorithms working without the hassle of getting the code itself to work(this only applies to newbs to computer programming though, as after awhile, it is really easy to pick up on any errors in the code).

I learned C++ before VB, and I think it helped me. I don't entirely hate VB, but I think that once you use that, and you see how *easy* it is to make something with it, you won't actually want the effort of C/C++ or some lower level language.

wait! wha? you mean you won't want to stick w/ vb right?

but yea i learned a lot from vb not just game programming stuff. thinks like command buttons and textboxes in win32 (once i get around to learning it) will be a lot easier to use (im guessing)

VB sucks. The classes and objects are so dumb and twisted - I much prefer C/C++'s method(s) of creating objects and classes.
And a pointer in VB? It can be done but man is it ugly.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Magos
Making games without difficulty? Have you tried the Games Factory? :)

---

Hey you can do some pretty difficult and complicatedstuff with the games factory, they made the advanced stuff way to confusing to do.

But I'd still say stick with C++, all of the languages that are made for game programming are either extremley similar to VB or C++ so learning either one of those would be just as good.

Quote:

---

but yea i learned a lot from vb not just game programming stuff. thinks like command buttons and textboxes in win32 (once i get around to learning it) will be a lot easier to use (im guessing)

---

If you want easy to use GUI, download python and PyGTK. You can make a window in like 4 lines, including the import line.