Sorry, I forgot to add the poll on the other version if it's still there. So just vote to tell me what language you think is better!
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Sorry, I forgot to add the poll on the other version if it's still there. So just vote to tell me what language you think is better!
I haven't used either C++ or C# extensively enough to declare one "better" than the other. I'm sure they all have their use. Part of what I decide is "better" would have to do with how well I know how to use it, ease of use, etc.
Quzah.
.
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Not every facet of OOP is useful for everyone. I like C#, but when
asked for the best, my vote goes to C++. There isn't much you
can't do with C++. C is limited in OOP ways, while C# hides much
of the internals.
There is no correct answear to that question. It all depends on what you want to do. They all have there justified role to play.
i m programming games, and most games r not completely OOP based, although a bit of classes don't hurt either.
C++ fits best into this scenario
that's y i like c++ best:D
Sorry for my ignorance, but could someone fill me in on what C# actually is? Will it compile on a C++ compiler?
The whole reasonThat I'm doing this, is because I don't know C# either. I just want to know wheter or not it's worth my while learning it. And uh... And who ever added the, "just remember that" thing, good one.
Sean Mackrory
[email protected]
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look around you...Quote:
C++ I still fail to see the point of having everything an object.
I agree.Quote:
Not every facet of OOP is useful for everyone. I like C#, but when
asked for the best, my vote goes to C++. There isn't much you
can't do with C++. C is limited in OOP ways, while C# hides much
of the internals.
I can't wait to see, ~50 years from now, how drastic changes in cpu architecture will change the way we program and how languages are designed. Hopefully i'll be on a good retirement plan by then; or maybe i'll end being an "old" c# programmer lucky enough to pick up a temp. job working on the y2050 problem.
/*edited to make your quotes work, hope you don't mind. -nv, mod. */
not at all nv, in fact thanks. I'm not quite sure how to "multi-qoute". I looked in the faq and couldn't find how. Am i supposed to use the full set of tags? i.e. vs. [QOUTE][/QOUTE]?
Thanks again.
edited: I guess so, since the first set of tags rendered a qoute, lol.
Know what the thing is? I iihnk you have to learn how to spell QUOTE first...
Q-U-O-T-E
C++ for me all the way... asm when needed (rare) ..... C (even rarer). As I understand it to use .NET you dont need to be writing in C#.I've looked into c# a little and to me it looks more like Java than c++ and it doesn't seem to give you the same creative freedom as c++ gives you.It is not muliparadigm.
Too bad C++ is being migrated to the .NET framework, eh? There goes your ivory tower argument, buster.Quote:
Originally posted by Troll_King
I don't think that any of you guys got it right yet. The C# language is a managed language that targets the .NET framework. You will be able to use .NET on labtops, desktops, databases, web servers, and embedded systems. It is more versitile than C++ because it is going to be better supported. You can apply almost all C++ concepts to C# so that transition will likely be easy. When you get into C# you are dealing with all of .NET, which basically eliminates some systemic weaknesses of the Windows OS. You can read about it now or else later but it is likely an eventality if you use a computer.
Ever here of "Managed Extensions" to C++? That's the .NET version of it, coming up in VS 7. As for QBASIC.net; I have no clue. I didn't know QBASIC was still being developed. As for me, Delphi was ported to .NET even before MS officially ported any of its languages so I'm happy.Quote:
Originally posted by gamegod3001
C# is desinged to work with .net. C++ was not I think thats what he had in mind. BTW when will I be able to get qbasic.net
oops! thanks for the clarification kenny.Quote:
Originally posted by -KEN-
Know what the thing is? I iihnk you have to learn how to spell QUOTE first...
Q-U-O-T-E
Quote:
Originally posted by greenRoom
look around you...
I agree.
I can't wait to see, ~50 years from now, how drastic changes in cpu architecture will change the way we program and how languages are designed. Hopefully i'll be on a good retirement plan by then; or maybe i'll end being an "old" c# programmer lucky enough to pick up a temp. job working on the y2050 problem.
50 years,?!?! When i got my first my hands on my first computer about 8 years ago, top of the line was 50mhz with 8 megs of memory, and 3d graphics were just a dream.
What do you think will happen 10 years down the road, a cheap system might be running at 500 ghz with a monitor built into a set of sun glasses.
Heh, so true. The fact is, what you expect 50 years from now, we are capable of today. But it is more profitable to increase desktop technology a little bit at a time. Sometimes you see things that shouldn't exist yet though. ;)Quote:
When i got my first my hands on my first computer about 8 years ago, top of the line was 50mhz with 8 megs of memory, and 3d graphics were just a dream.
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Hypocrite.Quote:
I'm not sure when you turkeys got the idea that I don't like C++. I have yet to hear one true hypothesus regarding me.
You call us turkeys and then say that we can't judge you?
Reality check.
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I am a collector of languages. Any language I can find or download. Have not tried C# but eventually will. My vote is for C++ because it is so powerful. I do enjoy assembly, but in desktop applications, there is not much use for it. Besides C++ allows me to use inline asm if I find something that can be done easier or faster in asm.
Is Borland going to develop a C++ that is designed around .NET? I have nothing against Microsoft, I've just been using Borland for so long and have gotten accustomed to their IDEs. The Developer Studio and VB6 IDEs were probably better than Borland's, but much of it was information overload at first glance.
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Like they said above, th bext thing about .NET, is that you can have multilanguage programs. This will save A LOT of money in the long run with companies not having to hire people who are all proficient in C++. They could use all sorts of people. And you can specialize even the tiniest part of your program.
I just wanted to remind everyone that C# is another one of Microsofts schemes for taking over the market or something. I'm not sure yet, though. But I see very interesting motivations for this event.
Take heed, ppl
Just as a reminder: ANY programming language is created by someone and every creator wants it's product to succeed. Success means dominating the market. Sun would like to, Microsoft tries, and other corporations secretly hope for it. It's the way this world ( or rather capitalism ) works.
Does that mean the winner is evil ? Are those who try and loose any better just because they lost ?
What i wanted to say is that microsoft is just extending its large array of products. And afterall, why does it need to do so unless it already feels the treath of another rival. No, i did not mean to say that just because there is a winner, the winner must be evil.
But if we all gave open source a little push from behind ppl would see thebenefits that come from it.
I mean, isn't microsoft happy, afterall? They should be....
Thnx for your understanding.
Microsoft is ahead, but that does not mean that they should stop making products. They're not after the fact that they're the number one producer of anything computerized, they're after the $$$. They'll do this with the presence of a rival or not.
i think C# looks like a mixture of Visual Basic and Visual C++ to give VB programmers better chances
Actually, a mixture of Java, VB, and C/C++. Nice language. Don't knock it unless you try it.
Interesting, 37-1. I think I'll use my time wisely. Yeah. of course it's a good language. So was system 370. They don't use that anymore!
YAY! This is finally more popular than the Hellow World post! I've been waiting on that for a long time. Now I started the biggest post in the C# Board! *feels proud*
hmm...no surprise with the results, for a few reasons:
1) C IS better than C# in my opinion
2) Programmers tend to bash new higher-level languages. ESPESCIALLY when they've gotten comfortable with a low-level one like C.
3) It's from MS. A lot of people here are totally biased against everything coming out of that company. Go figure. Stupid kiddies, need to learn that one company isn't "evil" like everyone says, and linux isn't some sort of savior.
C is not a low level language.
bias exists, and everyone is always wary during a transition period.
>( or rather capitalism )
personally i'm in support of the individualist, the lone-coder, the dos nut... but i suppose that in practice this doesn't win out... can someone find me an economy where this does work out? i don't like the stiff competetion of an open market, nor the stagant of a monopoly... i would rather prefer a flowing set of transitory [and consecutive] oligoplies, which add to an incresingly diverse and practical technological basis. the loners must have the power to win out, as should the oligopolists. only the increase of the technology and intellect is rewarded.
oh, and ps, i would get checks in the mail for my art!
I like everything that's not a fourth generation language. They're not logically built - they shouldn't even be called a generation. I think it's the same thing as calling HTML a programming language!
I forgot to reply to doubleanti:
You said you didn't like the lone coder.
I have no idea why, because I hate anything that requires me to get out of bed, but I like creating programs that don't have a single #include directive in them. I'm currently rewriting my own version of all the C++ libraries in assembler.
i said i do support the lone coder... but in practice, s/he doesn't win out more often than not...
Well I never used C#, and I definitely like C++ better than C, so I voted C++.
Sucks to be C#.... Even plain C beat it.
Sadly, I guess if you ask those 45 people if the ever did something with C#, about 10 will say yes. And I bet many of those who voted C++ ( like me ) would rather have C# than C...
But one advantage c++ has is that it has backward compatability to pretty much windows 3.1.
C# will ALWAYS require you to be running the absloute latest microsoft os/compiler and hardware to support it.
Even if u can manage to get a pirated version of the software it will still be a very costly expirance.
how bound is c# to microsoft?
>But one advantage c++ has is that it has backward >compatability to pretty much windows 3.1.
Uhm. I beg to differ. None of the programs I wrote for windows will work with anything below 95 and some will even require NT4 or later. And using the .NET Framework, no language will be backwards compatible. Not C#, not VB.NET and not C++.NET.
If you are using .NET, you don't want it to be backwards compatible, because that would mean having old, outdated, obsolete stuff in it.
>C# will ALWAYS require you to be running the absloute latest >microsoft os/compiler and hardware to support it.
No. It will require the 21 MB Framework distributables to run, which only work on 98 upwards. The development machine should be running 2000 or XP. Hardware is not an issue here. All the Beta's and Release candidates I tested so far run fine on the machines I use for Visual Studio 6 today.
>Even if u can manage to get a pirated version of the software it >will still be a very costly expirance.
a) The betas are completely free.
b) the Framework SDK I guess will be completely free even after Release. It includes a C# commandline compiler.
c) I don't think .NET will cost more than Visual Studio 6, so it won't be more costly than developing today is.
(This message is pretty much a srtaight reply to nvoigt's and I really can't be bothered to use quotes, so lets just imagine that I did)
Firstly by saying C++ is backward compatible I mean that you will be able to program on absloutly all operating stystems around with out the need for retraining (you will of course need a pretty good referance but atleast its not a while new language). C++ was designed this way, so that code and programming techniques written at pretty much anypoint in its devlopment should always remain valid. This doesn't really apply in pactise and all compilers have thier bugs, but its nothing all that stressing.
And as you say .net needs 98 or later to run. This really isn't acceptable for me as i still need to have my programs able to run on windows 95. And its the needing 2000 or Xp to devlop on that I'm talking about. Have you ever tried to run XP with less than 128 ram? Well its not pretty i can tell you that.
Lastly you say that it will still be just as cheap as buying Visual Studio 6. Well thats really good news. I couldn't afford that when it came out and i can't afford it now. Really microsoft pushing this crap as hard as it can is just making me more tempted to get the pirated version.
Well... if you couldn't afford the last IDE, than it would be a bit strange if you could afford this one. You can get their C# compiler for free. There are enough free IDEs out there, just look into the Links post on top.
>This really isn't acceptable for me as i still need to have my
>programs able to run on windows 95
What for ? Do you have customers still using 9x systems ?
I'm not sure how laws are in your country, but here, there exist laws that force employers to have computers suitable for office work for those who need them. 17" at least, decent speed and so on. If they can afford the hardware, it shouldn't be a big problem to buy an operating system that was sold this century. If you have to operate on a system 7 years old, then you don't need .NET. It cannot handle it's power anyway.
If you need 95, then indeed .NET is not for you. But you can hardly blame MS for not supporting a 9x product anymore.
Its for school.
It has to run on the systems they have and 1/2 of them are 95.
And I don't see why microsoft should drop thier support for windows 95, lots of companies still have a large amount of thier new machines running on it.
And i just think that the final argument against C# is the way it was devloped. Not by a large group of people, chosen because they were qualified, sitting down and talking about it. Instead it was created by a single company in a drawn out battle of office politics.
My god, I think you're right. C# was written by the MS marketing department, where people don't know code from carpets. It'll be interesting to see how they go about fooling everybody into adopting this one :p.Quote:
And i just think that the final argument against C# is the way it was devloped. Not by a large group of people, chosen because they were qualified, sitting down and talking about it. Instead it was created by a single company in a drawn out battle of office politics.
I think you'll find a fair amount of computer languages have been developed inside corporations (who by their nature seem to get involved in 'office politics') where quite coincidentally qualified people may sit down at some point and talk about it.
Yes this is all true, MS doesn't know anything about programming and that is why nobody in the world uses their products, they just fooled you with the sticker on you computer when in fact everything in the world is made in China.
>>when in fact everything in the world is made in China.
Waht about Taiwan, huh?
You mean the Republic of China rather than the Peoples Republic of China.
they might know how to program a bit... but god their coding stinks! nothing is more ustable than wincrap...Quote:
Originally posted by Troll_King
Yes this is all true, MS doesn't know anything about programming and that is why nobody in the world uses their products, they just fooled you with the sticker on you computer when in fact everything in the world is made in China.
BSD 4 life!
quote:
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And i just think that the final argument against C# is the way it was devloped. Not by a large group of people, chosen because they were qualified, sitting down and talking about it. Instead it was created by a single company in a drawn out battle of office politics.
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I think that most people know that C++ was developed by AT&T and that turned out to be a pretty ok language
It is kinda depressing when I think of it from a swedish standpoint
C++ main Eng Bjarne Strostrup from Denmark
C# main Eng Anders Hjelsberg from Norway
Linux Linus Torvalds
from Finland
Who else do we have that have made a big impact on the computer world from Europe?
Yes, they are all sweedish meatballs. But they all work and live in the US now. The best is K & R. They made everything.
K & R are good. Not sure they did every thing ..I think I read they based C from a code base originating from Ada and a follower named something with B but I can't remeber what the name was.
The poll itself is closed. If you have anything to add, feel free to do so.