Well, what do you think?
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Well, what do you think?
I don't know what kind of engine is in a semi, but it's likely that they have at least a V12. Those things need a lot of power. And if someone wants to pay for the gas, why not allow it? I'm not an environmentalist in any form, of course...
never!!! how could you ban something as sweet as the Viper (it comes v10 or v12) not to mention things like the Pagini Zonda, Diablo SV, Ferrari.... etc.
A semi truck isn't a car. The line of thinking I guess is that they (the cars) are just too dangerous for public use. Those cars you mentioned can all hit 210, and if you use nearly any of that then you are going too fast for safety. Someone else made a point, saying that a hunting rifle can kill people, but why give a killer an assault rifle. this is the same situation.
EDIT:
My neighbor (a car addict) said that viper GTRs are already banned in some states. Is this true?
V12s just use up too much gas. You can get v6s and v8s that run quite quickly. You can probably get such cars to be faster than a lot of V12s.
But if someone wants to spend the money on the gas guzzler, their option.
The assult rifle doesn't make decisions. The killer does.Quote:
Originally posted by Silvercord
why give a killer an assault rifle. this is the same situation.
Yeah, gas usage wasn't the point of the thread. It has to do with safety. V12s are basically race cars. I personally think the amount of speed you can have must be cut off somewhere. My parent's toyota can do 100, and its an inline 4 for crying out loud! Its already dangerous with normal vehicles, but why would you even want to have a car that can go 210 and only be able to drive it in a 55? It seems the temptation to 'step on it' would be too great, thus speeding an endangering others. I found that the amount of speed related deaths had been increasing in the past few years.
EDIT:
True, but in the case of the car the killer doesn't usually have intent to kill, but is a lot more likely to lose control if he/she gives into the temptation to press the pedal in their car that can potentially do 210. All I'm trying to say is the temptation to speed in a minivan isn't nearly as great as the temptation to speed in a ferrari. I read that as soon as John Carmack bought his first ferrari he pushed it to over 150.Quote:
The assult rifle doesn't make decisions. The killer does.
> My parent's toyota can do 100, and its an inline 4 for crying out loud!
OUCH!
That's a 4cyl? Poor car. Betcha that thing was whistlin like a tea kettle. :D
And that's only like what, 3rd/4th gear for a viper? Don't a lot of those cars have 6?
A lamborghini does. Not only does it have a v12, but it has 6 dual carbs. Not bad for a factory car. One of the lamborghini's does 0-215 in 25 seconds.
> I read that as soon as John Carmack bought his first ferrari he pushed it to over 150.
I've done 105mph over an approximate 10-15 foot quick drop-off in a road.
I'm not surprised dude. I'm not a car geek and I dont' know mucha bout cars or how they work, but I thought that carbs were only on older cars, that the newer ones were all fuel injected and instead of tuning the carbs you just have computers do that stuff.
My dad said he had a camaro with a v8 when he was the local pimp, and he said that he had carb troubles cuz of incomplete combustion from always going too slow (i.e the speed limit)
My dad also had a maverick, I saw one of those today and I like them.
you are braver than I am. I've only gone over 100 in a car once with my neighbor and i hated it and i screamed like the defensive girlfriend telling him to stop.Quote:
I've done 105mph over an approximate 10-15 foot quick drop-off in a road.
oh wait, I am the defensive girlfriend in the relationship :*(
>
I'm not a car geek and I dont' know mucha bout cars or how they work, but I thought that carbs were only on older cars, that the newer ones were all fuel injected and instead of tuning the carbs you just have computers do that stuff.
<
http://eml.ou.edu/mm-eng/course/F01p...ject/Intro.htm
> you are braver than I am.
I swerved pretty good because I held the gas to the floor over the drop off. I pretty much clipped the side of the road. Scared the ........ out of me. I now coast over drop offs when I drive speeds excess of 85mph. :D
One of the first things I did when I got my car was take it on the interstate and hit the gas. Fun, fun, fun!
My friend's getting a v8 camaro tonight, his girlfriend has a v6.
In conclusion...you're a moron. ;)
I was damn suprised to see that 3 people voted YES so far... you evil, horrible, voters.
Here are some facts:
1: Cars have wonderful devices in them which limit the speed to approx 180km/h before it automatically begins to decelerate you to about 160km/h.
2: It's illegal for technicians to remove the above restriction for domestic / city use. (I am aware that many cars do not have this restriction as they are shipped without it, or are removed).
3: People will go fast no matter what they have. Who do you think will go out of control more easily? The guy with a minivan trying to turn a corner going 150 to 190 km/h, or the guy with the viper who has anti-skid control on the rear wheels... you decide. Statistics will likely prove that expensive sports cars are in less accidents than the average car because the people willing to spend $127,000 on a Viper are hopefully smart enough to not go 120km/h in neighbourhoods.
Shall we ban Honda CBR's, or other Super Bikes from the roads? They accelerate quicker, and reach speeds just as high as sports cars.
People will go fast no matter what vehicle they have. The problem is that many people with fast cars don't know how to control them properly. If you understand what your car can do, and you drive with control and look out for other vehicles then everything should be fine. Personally I like average speeds of 150km/h, the point is to do it safely; IE: Know the road conditions, know what your car can handle, and be aware of other drivers... so if traffic is congested go the damn speed limit or use your power to pass afew people, no problem there.
Anyways, I'm not saying that I've never been in a bad situation in a car because of poor driving judgements... For example: My friend got a new Subaru Legacy, so we went outside of the city down a wide gravel road, which had washboard from the trucks, to have some fun. Well, funny thing, he put confidence into his Traction Control system and began to fish-tale the car purposefully to show it off... lets just say that we ended up going sideways at 130+ km/h, plowing into a very steep ditch and into a barb-wire fence post(it takes a while getting out of the ditch when your back right wheel is 5 feet above ground). And yes, there are always potholes and things on the road (it's also scary going 90km/h and knocking off your front right tire and spinning into a ditch in a minivan :) See, people use anything they can get their hands on). But still, fast cars are fun, and they should not be illegal.
they're necessary for bigger vehicles (trucks)
but cars dont' need them at all... they can easily go over 160MpH with a V6 Vtech... why you would want to go that fast anyway is beyond me... not only will you never use the power, you'll be wasting gas and creating alot of pollution...
why you would need that much power in a sports car i don't know... not for regular driving anyway...
I share the same view small
Thumbs up to you Ken. My uncle did the same thing. And guess what. He crashed into another car while he was having his fun fun fun. The person in the other car won't be having anymore fun fun fun. You know what I mean, and I'm dead serious, pun intended.Quote:
One of the first things I did when I got my car was take it on the interstate and hit the gas. Fun, fun, fun!
I'm a moron? Okay...you are right, I'm a moron, just make sure that you don't get caught while you're having your fun fun fun, and please don't be as careless as my uncle.
my dad just got a V4 honda... the top speed is 160... i agree it's fun to push your car, but you can get pretty much the same thrill out of shifting at higher RPMs... that way you get the pickup and sound, but you're still not going all that fast...
Do what they do here........speed cameras and excessive fines for traffic offences.
They move them around and hide them. You just get the bill in the mail.
I got 2 a few weeks a go, both for the minimum $50.
One for doing 108km/h in a 100km/h zone and 87km/h in a 80km/h zone.
More than 30km/h over is your licence for 3 months.
Ouch. This is why I do all of my driving out on the highway... my boss was driving his super bike out on the highway at 200km/h and he saw a cow... so he slowed down and honked at it and figured it would move :) He ended up with two broken legs, broken bike, and killed a cow. lol
for all of you that cant understand why someone would want a car that goes really fast, think about what car nutz do with free time... there are alot of legal race tracks and drag strips where you can take your v12, 500hp car and burn down the 1/4 mile in 10-11 seconds. why restrict such a great hobby/sport. its not just racers that attend these events, ive seen people race everything from minivans to prissy little honda's (that think they are fast untill they meet my turbo charged AWD Talon). its alot of fun.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally posted by Perspective
for all of you that cant understand why someone would want a car that goes really fast, think about what car nutz do with free time... there are alot of legal race tracks and drag strips where you can take your v12, 500hp car and burn down the 1/4 mile in 10-11 seconds. why restrict such a great hobby/sport. its not just racers that attend these events, ive seen people race everything from minivans to prissy little honda's (that think they are fast untill they meet my turbo charged AWD Talon). its alot of fun.
It's like asking why some of you hardware nerds juice up your computers. It's all a big ........ing contest. You don't NEED the extra processing power/memory/storage space, and you're just wasting power with all of the pretty neon glowing lights, but do you really care?
Just make sure you keep your computer in 3rd gear so you don't lose control run it off the road and kill someone with it.
And make sure that the only car you kill people with is one with a V12. That way you might actually give this ridiculous thread some credit.
there are fast hondas out there though..Quote:
Originally posted by Perspective
for all of you that cant understand why someone would want a car that goes really fast, think about what car nutz do with free time... there are alot of legal race tracks and drag strips where you can take your v12, 500hp car and burn down the 1/4 mile in 10-11 seconds. why restrict such a great hobby/sport. its not just racers that attend these events, ive seen people race everything from minivans to prissy little honda's (that think they are fast untill they meet my turbo charged AWD Talon). its alot of fun.
honda doesn't make any V engines..Quote:
my dad just got a V4 honda...
It is VTEC.Quote:
hey can easily go over 160MpH with a V6 Vtech
You can make 6cyls and 8cyls as fast as some exotics out there with the right amount of money. you can even make some 4cyls do it. just like Bob Norwood did with the 4000hp Integra.
Anyways, as said, it's responsibility. Anyone can drive like an A, doesn't matter the car. But if you're responsible and a good defensive driver, then have fun..
Not for cars at least. Oh, and I'm assuming you just left out the '4' on the V4, because they sure do make V6's :D For motorcyles as well ;)Quote:
Originally posted by alpha
honda doesn't make any V engines..
@ major_small :
What does your dad drive? Is it a car or a motorcylce ffs? There is no V4 Honda car engine, and with exception of the Acura (I'm American ;)) NSX he's not going 160 MPH with a Honda V6 in a car either. The Pasport SUV, Odyssey minivan, and Accord are the only Honda cars I can think of with a V6. And none of them even come close to 160 MPH.
yeah, thanks, i did leave out the 4 in it. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by TravisS
Not for cars at least. Oh, and I'm assuming you just left out the '4' on the V4, because they sure do make V6's :D For motorcyles as well ;)
@ major_small :
What does your dad drive? Is it a car or a motorcylce ffs? There is no V4 Honda car engine, and with exception of the Acura (I'm American ;)) NSX he's not going 160 MPH with a Honda V6 in a car either. The Pasport SUV, Odyssey minivan, and Accord are the only Honda cars I can think of with a V6. And none of them even come close to 160 MPH.
dang you, I was going to say that.Quote:
It's like asking why some of you hardware nerds juice up your computers. It's all a big ........ing contest. You don't NEED the extra processing power/memory/storage space, and you're just wasting power with all of the pretty neon glowing lights, but do you really care?
But the only way they can kill someone is if they somehow explode :D
travis you are completely right. The minimum legal driving age should be raised to 21.Quote:
And make sure that the only car you kill people with is one with a V12. That way you might actually give this ridiculous thread some credit.
he's driving an accord sedan LX... sorry about the v4... it's an inline 4... and it gets 160hp @ 5500rpm... it's still more than you would need for driving...Quote:
Originally posted by TravisS
What does your dad drive? Is it a car or a motorcylce ffs? There is no V4 Honda car engine, and with exception of the Acura (I'm American ;)) NSX he's not going 160 MPH with a Honda V6 in a car either. The Pasport SUV, Odyssey minivan, and Accord are the only Honda cars I can think of with a V6. And none of them even come close to 160 MPH.
top speed for the V6 is 130... http://honda.jbroadtests.com/Accord/2003/index4.php
it's close enough to 160 and there's still no need to be going that fast...
You're right, there is no need to be going that fast. If you race (legally at the strip that is), then fine, but otherwise, no need to go that fast on the roads.Quote:
Originally posted by major_small
he's driving an accord sedan LX... sorry about the v4... it's an inline 4... and it gets 160hp @ 5500rpm... it's still more than you would need for driving...
top speed for the V6 is 130... http://honda.jbroadtests.com/Accord/2003/index4.php
it's close enough to 160 and there's still no need to be going that fast...
major_small, the reason I bring it up is because I drive a 2001 Accord Coupe LX 4-cylinder with a 5 speed manual. :D
At stock they make 150 HP, top speed (for both 4-cyl AND V6) is 122 MPH, or right around there. The newer V6's make 240 HP, which is a very healthy amount more than the 4-cyl, so I'd guess your dad's top speed is still limited to less than 130 MPH.
And there is a HUGE difference between 130 MPH and 160, in both reaction time and especially in braking distances.
Silvercord, please, don't try and confuse what I meant by that :p Raising the legal driving age to 21 would not help, and in many cases would worsen the problem. In an urban ares, with no public trasportation and 30+ minute drive between towns 16 years old is almost too young. Driving experience has nothing to do with age, it really doesn't.
I'm 21 myself and have a pretty healty amount more experience than a 30 year old driver. I've been driving since I was 15, and I drive right around 30,000 miles a year, largely highway driving. The age of people and the type of car is not the problem. Yes, younger drivers are more likely to drive stupid (I will not deny that) but I've seen plenty of older (like 30+) drivers that are just as idiotic as the new 16 year old driver.
It's WAY too easy to get a lisence, that's the problem. In the USA you'd have to be a complete idiot to not get a license, and yes I mean that. I'm absolutely amazed at the fact people can even fail the driving test, seriously, it's amazing!
It's the drivers skill, skills which must be learned through first hand experience, that matters. It's not the driver's age, not the car, only the skill and common sense of the driver that becomes dangerous.
You definitely bring up a very good point. I think the major point that most people lack is not the skill, but the common sense to know what the boundary of their skill is. Your a much safer driver if you can recognize the limitations of your own ability and not completely ignore them (such as by letting your ego get in the way).
>>It's the drivers skill, skills which must be learned through first hand experience, that matters. It's not the driver's age, not the car, only the skill and common sense of the driver that becomes dangerous.<<
dingding! Hence limiting cars to anything under a v12 would be monumentally stupid.
I drive a 2003 Audi A4 (1.8t, inline 4, turbo), the Automatic Tipptronic . It can go 0-60 in 8.5 seconds, and its top speed is electronically limited to 130mph...I've been in one accident with it, and it was at 20mph :rolleyes: - long story. Anyway, I can get pretty spiffy acceleration, and can zip along at 130. See where I'm getting? You can zoom along fast as hell in smaller engines, too.
You bring up very good points. Experience is what is needed to really learn to drive, but for some, that experience goes in one ear and out the other.
off topic, but you drive a pretty spiffy car for your age.Quote:
Originally posted by -KEN-
>>It's the drivers skill, skills which must be learned through first hand experience, that matters. It's not the driver's age, not the car, only the skill and common sense of the driver that becomes dangerous.<<
dingding! Hence limiting cars to anything under a v12 would be monumentally stupid.
I drive a 2003 Audi A4 (1.8t, inline 4, turbo), the Automatic Tipptronic . It can go 0-60 in 8.5 seconds, and its top speed is electronically limited to 130mph...I've been in one accident with it, and it was at 20mph :rolleyes: - long story. Anyway, I can get pretty spiffy acceleration, and can zip along at 130. See where I'm getting? You can zoom along fast as hell in smaller engines, too.
Spiffy indeed. Thanks. It's mainly because my parents' line of thinking is "Well, expensive cars must be safer...so you can either get an Audi or a Volvo". Well, Volvos ARE safer than most cars, and Audis are pretty damn safe too, so I just went with the cooler car. Plus, my dad and brother both have Volvos, and my oldest brother has a kickin' rad 2000 A4 (manual, quattro), so I went with a car I knew was :cool:.
Anyway, how do you know my age? ARE YOU STALKING ME?
Cool parent's, and cool theory :pQuote:
"Well, expensive cars must be safer...so you can either get an Audi or a Volvo"
My first car was a 1979 Ford F-250 4x4. I guarantee you could ram your Audi into me and I would come out on top, and it was only $5,500 :p
My friend got into a pretty nasty accident and won a very large amount of cash. She wanted to get a Ford Mustang convertible, for the "coolness" factor. Her parents wanted her to get a Hummer H1, for the "safety" factor :p She didn't get either, but damn, I would have gone for that H1!
Yes, well, duh :). I actually hit a truck at 20mph, and since new cars are meant to crumple up at the slightest touch for "safety reason" (read: so you order lots and lots of parts from them ;)), I had a pretty nasty hood, a leaky radiator, blahblahblah....and a big hole in my front bumper from his trailer hitch (CURSE YOU, TRAILER HITCHES!!). The only thing off about his car was his rear bumper was dangling down.Quote:
Originally posted by TravisS
Cool parent's, and cool theory :p
My first car was a 1979 Ford F-250 4x4. I guarantee you could ram your Audi into me and I would come out on top, and it was only $5,500 :p
Actually, a truck was the first car I asked for. My parent's said no, because according to her I'd flip it and die.
Oh well, I'm more than happy with my current car, and since I'll have it for a minimum of 6 or 7 more years, I'm taking superb care of it :)
Yes, don't you know, you're one to be stalked.Quote:
Originally posted by -KEN-
Spiffy indeed. Thanks. It's mainly because my parents' line of thinking is "Well, expensive cars must be safer...so you can either get an Audi or a Volvo". Well, Volvos ARE safer than most cars, and Audis are pretty damn safe too, so I just went with the cooler car. Plus, my dad and brother both have Volvos, and my oldest brother has a kickin' rad 2000 A4 (manual, quattro), so I went with a car I knew was :cool:.
Anyway, how do you know my age? ARE YOU STALKING ME?
j/k... I have a pretty good memory (not as good as it used to be, but good enough). The AP CS thread. Remember that..
Yeah, my parents are into the whole safety thing as well. So they gave me my 2000 Accord SE. But for me, I don't know how long I'll keep this car. I want something with better handling, preferably AWD. I'm not bringing it to college in the fall, so we might sell it.
Really? My friend just got a 2003 Accord EX Coupe (same green color as the top left), and I really like it. Handles pretty well, and he got it in manual. I think it's front wheel drive though, isn't it?Quote:
Originally posted by alpha
Yes, don't you know, you're one to be stalked.
j/k... I have a pretty good memory (not as good as it used to be, but good enough). The AP CS thread. Remember that..
Yeah, my parents are into the whole safety thing as well. So they gave me my 2000 Accord SE. But for me, I don't know how long I'll keep this car. I want something with better handling, preferably AWD. I'm not bringing it to college in the fall, so we might sell it.
Heh, he wants to race me...it would be an amazingly close race. I have 170hp, he's got 160. I've got the turbo in mine though. Oh well.
AWD cars...hmmmm...the only AWD car I've ever driven has been my mom's Mercedes ML320 (I think she's got the 320...it's the first ML model that they ever made), but it doesn't count since it's more of a truck. My brother was trying to tell me that quattro slows his car down, but when I looked at the 0-60 for Audis, mine's actually the slowest time :eek:.
I've driven my dad's subaru. I think it handles nicer than my car. My car handles fairly well, but I still prefer AWD. It is FWD. I'm still not sure though, I'll see as time goes on.Quote:
Originally posted by -KEN-
Really? My friend just got a 2003 Accord EX Coupe (same green color as the top left), and I really like it. Handles pretty well, and he got it in manual. I think it's front wheel drive though, isn't it?
Heh, he wants to race me...it would be an amazingly close race. I have 170hp, he's got 160. I've got the turbo in mine though. Oh well.
AWD cars...hmmmm...the only AWD car I've ever driven has been my mom's Mercedes ML320 (I think she's got the 320...it's the first ML model that they ever made), but it doesn't count since it's more of a truck. My brother was trying to tell me that quattro slows his car down, but when I looked at the 0-60 for Audis, mine's actually the slowest time :eek:.
That could be a close race. It depends on how good of a driver you both are. Mostly him because he has to shift. There is a good chance that he could beat you though..
The 2003 Accords have a bit more understeer than the last gen (1998-2002), which have a good amount of understeer themselved.
All in all I think my Accord is a pretty good handeler, but a HUGE part of that is I replaced the stock 195/65/15 tires and rims with 225/40/17's. 30 mm wider and a grippier rubber will make a world of difference :D
My next car *hopefully* will be a 2006 (that's when my lease is up) Accord Coupe EX V6 6 speed, i.e. the prelude replacement :cool:
I haven't driven a 2003 yet. Good to know they have a bit more understeer.Quote:
Originally posted by TravisS
The 2003 Accords have a bit more understeer than the last gen (1998-2002), which have a good amount of understeer themselved.
All in all I think my Accord is a pretty good handeler, but a HUGE part of that is I replaced the stock 195/65/15 tires and rims with 225/40/17's. 30 mm wider and a grippier rubber will make a world of difference :D
My next car *hopefully* will be a 2006 (that's when my lease is up) Accord Coupe EX V6 6 speed, i.e. the prelude replacement :cool:
I still have the stock tire size. If I keep the car, first things I'll get would be some sway bars and maybe a strut bar.
I wish I could have gotten a lude. :cool:
Yeah, limiting the speed is stupid... it's un-american!
Besides that, this limitation would ruin the whole racket these city gov's got going where they charge you $180 for going 6miles over the limit - they would have no income as no more tickets could be given.
This argument is just as riduculous as the idea they got in london that says if u drive your car into the city center you are charged $15pounds - now they are considering that here.
Or as bad as the idea they had here in Los Angeles, some city FOOL, came up with that allowed the police to confiscate your car if you're pulled over for DUI... even before trial they would take your car and sell it at auction and pocket the money - leaving the person car less and even without compensation - all before the person was convicted. Luckily someone recognized that it was totally unconstitutional.
>>Or as bad as the idea they had here in Los Angeles, some city FOOL, came up with that allowed the police to confiscate your car if you're pulled over for DUI... even before trial they would take your car and sell it at auction and pocket the money - leaving the person car less and even without compensation - all before the person was convicted. Luckily someone recognized that it was totally unconstitutional.
DUI is stupid, but still... sell your car and stuff? Thats B.S., I certainly wouldn't blame the person for going postal on the cops.
I can see abolishing the speed limit, but only if you make the penalties for injuring somebody in an accident extremely high... as in if you destroy somebody else's life,limb, or property, you spend the next 30 years of your life behind bars...
until that happens, there is no need for a car over a v6... unless you're in a place with pretty much no speed limits (midwest) or are legally racing... but here in the suburbs and in the city there's definately no need for the power...
well, some trucks do need the v8s and some v10s. mostly for the torque for the towing.
anyways, bigger engine does not always equal faster acceleration and higher top speed.
Has anyone seen the Gumball 3000? If not, download the AVI's/MPEG's, it's a race across the US with over 200 participants.
I've heard of it, and seen pics. Haven't d/led any vids though.Quote:
Originally posted by Xei
Has anyone seen the Gumball 3000? If not, download the AVI's/MPEG's, it's a race across the US with over 200 participants.
>>This argument is just as riduculous as the idea they got in london that says if u drive your car into the city center you are charged $15pounds - now they are considering that here.<<
This was an excellent idea. So much so that people actually want to expand it to other city centres. London is 1960 years old, it was never designed to accomodate the kind of levels of modern traffic, indeed the average speed in London is approximately 11 mph. The idea behind this charging is to try and initially force people out of their cars in the hope that they will become used to finding other methods of transport, which in fact are plentiful in London centre if anyone were to bother looking. If that is successful, London will be a far safer and cleaner city which will be better for everybody. Sorry if that idea is 'un-american' but it works fine for us.
Oh and the charge is £5, not £15.
How's this to wet your appetite?
Most powerful production car in the world (As stated in the guiness world records)
Only about 100 of these were ever made and a new one cost about £600,000 (yeah, over half a million). To replace the exhaust will cost you over £50,000, that's more than a top of the range beamer. Silly silly money.
Yeah, we've all seen the F1 before...me? I'd much rather have the lambo cala. Sadly, IIRC, Audi took over before it could be produced, and scratched the idea. Only one was ever made, and it's in a museum. If I had enough money I'd buy that thing straight from the museum :).
Although, I suppose I'd just settle for a diablo :p. Its 0-100 time is just .1 over my 0-60 time :eek:!
//edit: And I thought they stopped production of the F1. Anyway, bassy has the right idea...get a lotus :cool:.
I knew the McLaren was a powerful car, but not that powerful.
I used to play a game called Crime Fighter and you could steal one of those F1's in it.
there is a similar race in europe called the cannon ball run. all really nice cars too.Quote:
Originally posted by Xei
Has anyone seen the Gumball 3000? If not, download the AVI's/MPEG's, it's a race across the US with over 200 participants.
> Although, I suppose I'd just settle for a diablo
thats pretty nice, but what you need is the Diablo SV
http://www.angelfire.com/ne/spotscars/images/Lsv.jpg
>>And I thought they stopped production of the F1.<<
They did. Hence why I said,
>>Only about 100 of these were ever made<<
;)
::grumbling:: STFU, meeper.