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Anyone think Iraq can possibly win the war? I think it's very possible.
My friend told me that president of Egypt (this is a rumor(or so I think)) is calling upon one billion people to fight for Iraq...
Sounds dumb to me, but we'll see.
You think Iraq has a chance?
> You think Iraq has a chance?
Hell no.
edit: And your friend's full of crap. Egypt has far less than 100 million people in it, so unless they're going to get 900+ million people to come out of hiding or mount (heh) some huge campaign to give birth to fully grown soldiers, they're going to have trouble fielding that 1 billion.
>>Anyone think Iraq can possibly win the war? I think it's very possible<<
Impossible, really really.
>>My friend told me that president of Egypt (this is a rumor(or so I think)) is calling upon one billion people to fight for Iraq...
<<
Hahah, Husni Mubarak, he is a dumb ass, what he can do? bul$$$$, they will fight agains USA with what? Mummy's? Pharao will wake-up and start fighting against USA? :) Who the hell they think they are?
In case of a war, it'll happen just like that in Afghanistan. Eventually, Bush would never be able to lay his hands on Saddam (just as Bin Laden remains a mystery even today) ... What would happen is that the Bush administration would be labelled as war mongers across the world. I'm really skeptical if the UN security council would give the go ahead for a war as except UK, everybody is opposed to the US in this regard.
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comments and brickbats welcome !
>> I'm really skeptical if the UN security council would give the go ahead for a war as except UK, everybody is opposed to the US in this regard<<
Australia too, and USA don't care about UN is talking, he really want's to go against iraq, and he will do it.
>>What would happen is that the Bush administration would be labelled as war mongers across the world<<
So, what UN or any other state can make against USA?
>>In case of a war<<
Ahh be sure, it will have war, don't doubt it.
1 Billion people? That's like 1/6th of the world's population. I seriously doubt it.
What I find really disturbing is that all of a sudden everyone is taking a gun-ho attitude to this war. Have none of you seen Saving Private Ryan? I don't know about you but that film shocked me into realising what war is all about. It's nasty, vicious and rids people of any trace of humanity. People from both sides, both military and civillian, are killed, maimed, burnt, traumatised and goodness knows what else. We are going to war because this guy supposedly has particularly inhumane weapons, and some of us have friends in the armed forces who will most likely be attacked with these weapons. So cut the bull with all this 'We're the kings of the world' $$$$ and start showing a bit of sorrow and empathy towards the people imminently to be exposed to the pain and slaughter that accompanies any war, in any time, in any place.
>> USA don't care about UN is talking, he really want's to go against iraq, and he will do it. <<
Bush and his cronies can do little against a united security council. If such was the case as you mention then why did the US involve the security council in the first place ? they could have gone to war solo !
Australia, did you say ... tsk, tsk ... yeah, in darkness even a candlelight would suffice.
Iraqi, well, why we're arguing? let's enjoy from the war :) :)
it will be really funny to see iraqi's stupid ass and heads pulling out :)
And you'll see, USA will make war with or without permission of UN :)
And be sure Hussein's life is in danger, this is the most funny :p
>> let's enjoy from the war
it will be really funny to see iraqi's stupid ass and heads pulling out<<
Yeah, cos people being killed and maimed is just hilarious isn't it? :rolleyes:
>>Yeah, cos people being killed and maimed is just hilarious isn't it?
If we're talking about iraq's people yes, same to palestines.
>>If we're talking about iraq's people yes, same to palestines.<<
I don't think there is a word in the english language that comes close to describing the sort of person who could make a statement like that. I can only hope that you are young and will one day grow up.
Well Minesweeper, come to live here in Israel, I give you 2 years and you'll change up your mind.
And why are you so scared? this is EXACTLY what Arabs wan't for USA citizens same to Israel Citizens!
Nobody gives a rat's ass as to whether Saddam's life is in danger or not. What everydody does care about is the common Iraqi who will be spending the rest of it's life in dredgery because of the war. Their life was hell when Saddam's troops were cruelly killing the opposition while the US watched from behind the lines because of stupid politics and their life will be hell even if the US overthrows the Saddam regime ... Father made a mistake (letting Saddam go scot-free), son will make a blunder (if he goes to war).Quote:
Originally posted by Vber
Iraqi, well, why we're arguing? let's enjoy from the war :) :)
it will be really funny to see iraqi's stupid ass and heads pulling out :)
And you'll see, USA will make war with or without permission of UN :)
And be sure Hussein's life is in danger, this is the most funny :p
>Well Minesweeper, come to live here in Israel, I give you 2 years and you'll change up your mind.
attitudes like that are the reason why Isreal and Palestine may be fighting until one of them is no longer
>And why are you so scared? this is EXACTLY what Arabs wan't for USA citizens same to Israel Citizens!
Scared? He is showing concern for human life. You should be doing the same, whether its your friend or your enemy!
> He is showing concern for human life. You should be doing the same, whether its your friend or your enemy!
No kidding... That attitude's, sick, VBer - it makes you no better than the person you're against.
He will go, and I don't think he will make a blunder, let's see how this war is going to be.
And don't get me wrong guys, I'm not an extremist or something from the same type. what I think about arabs is exactly what they think about USA and Israel.
>>attitudes like that are the reason why Isreal and Palestine may be fighting until one of them is no longer
<<
That's not because this, I'm not an extremist, I just can see people burning USA/Israel flag. I really hate when 20 people dead here in Israel and they are going to the road and make party, when this happens there, we don't do this. And you were here when the Twins collapsed? they did the biggest party I ever seend, thousands of milion people went to the road and started to burn USA flags and telling that 'allah' collapsed the twins buildings.
yeah, and after the war they will realise their mistake and mend themselves, stop partying, etc. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Vber
>>attitudes like that are the reason why Isreal and Palestine may be fighting until one of them is no longer
<<
That's not because this, I'm not an extremist, I just can see people burning USA/Israel flag. I really hate when 20 people dead here in Israel and they are going to the road and make party, when this happens there, we don't do this. And you were here when the Twins collapsed? they did the biggest party I ever seend, thousands of milion people went to the road and started to burn USA flags and telling that 'allah' collapsed the twins buildings.
when will you grow up ?
>>and after the war they will realise their mistake and mend themselves<<
How do you know? well, this thread is the most idiot thread ever.
Iraqi, forget, USA WILL go to the war, WILL win the war, WILL take Saddam or Kill him, and just like all wars innocents WILL be killed.
And you hell don't know me, so don't ask me when I will grown up. I didn't told nothing personal against you so, we're talking about iraq vs usa, don't jump assunt.
> How do you know? well, this thread is the most idiot thread ever.
Ease off, killer - he was being sarcastic.
Ok, but I don't like people down to personal level, this really irritates me, because I didn't told him nothing at personal level.Quote:
Ease off, killer - he was being sarcastic.
1) He didn't insult at a personal level - he read your posts and you sound like an immature kid - and I mean the ideas, not the words.
2) It's pretty easy to tell how old you are... It's, y'know, in your profile.
>>2) It's pretty easy to tell how old you are... It's, y'know, in your profile.
Of course it's in my profile, I haven't any problem with this, I know that comparing to some people here I'm a kid, in words too :)
>>you sound like an immature kid - and I mean the ideas
Well, not just me, every Israelian citizen you ask him the same questions, he will answer you the same thing, no matter the age be 50+ or 10+.:rolleyes:
However, I don't see any reason why this thread should continue, anyone of us can't change the situation, it will be war and not you, not me and not iraqi can change this.
If you/he thinks that USA is going to make an blunder step, nice my Opinion isn't the same opinion.
Maybe it's because you/him don't live near this situation, you don't know too much about what's happening here, so you cannot tell me that my opinion is wrong. Of course isn't the same as yours, but it's because we aren't in the same position.
> I don't see any reason why this thread should continue,
That's wonderful - don't pay attention to it, then. I'm not closing it - I'm sick of getting crap from people when I close threads someone requests.
I'm not asking for you to close the thread, I'm just asking where this thread is getting us? you can say hours and days that my opinion is wrong, and I will still say that yours is wrong.
Maybe some day I will change my mind, after the war or don't know when, I think it's a hard thing to happen but ok.
Chill out, bud. If you wish war, so be it. Someday if Israel is in the same position as Iraq is in today (which is quite possible just like US turning it's back on AlQaeda), I shall pray for you.
Part of the problem in Israel and Palestine is the dehumanization of the other side. Palestinians were raised in a culture that demeaned the "Jewish land stealers," and now many Israelis are taking a similar attitude with the "suicide-bomber" Palestinians. In my opinion, a real lasting peace in Israel and Palestine will be impossible until both sides realizes they did wrong to the other side and both sides recognize that the other side is in the region permenantly, for better or for worse. Both sides must be willing to compromise and discuss their grievances rationally without letting the rageful thought of dead compatriots poison their minds. Until this happens, terrible atrocities will continue in Israel and Palestine.
The war with Iraq is bound to be more horrific for both sides than President Bush would want the American public to think. Saddam Hussein in all likelihood still has some chemical and biological weapons, and he will definitely use them against the coalition armies this time around. The United States, if threatened by an unquenchable aggressor, though, would do/has done (Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan) the same thing to defend itself. There will be street warfare in Baghdad and guerilla warfare throughout the country, probably even after Saddam's regime is overthrown. When the Iraqi regime tries to defend itself, President Bush is going to label that terrorism to reinforce his logic for having invaded in the first place.
After peace is brought back, a slightly freer and slightly more democratic regime will be installed under U.S. supervision, and the new U.S.-supported Iraqi government will pay back the war debt from "being liberated" through its oil supplies. The U.S.'s supposed Middle Eastern allies, Saudi Arabia et ali., will point out this blatant imperialism to rouse up the rage of the average Middle Easterner. This will lead to more people willing to support violent acts of terrorism against the United States and the rest of the Western world. The Middle Eastern "powder keg" could very well explode at this point. I do not want to make predictions on what will happen beyond this except to say that President Bush will probably accuse more countries of the same things Iraq was accused of (i.e., Iran).
>Anyone think Iraq can possibly win the war?
I don't think so. Let's hope Bagdad will not be a second Stalingrad and that the war will be over as soon as possible with as less victims as possible.
"Anyone think Iraq can possibly win the war?"
I don't think so.
Quote:
"Iraqi, well, why we're arguing? let's enjoy from the war "
Quote:
>>Yeah, cos people being killed and maimed is just hilarious isn't it?
"If we're talking about iraq's people yes, same to palestines"
....Quote:
"I'm not an extremist"
Shiro, the second sentence in your reply is probably both the most realistic and respectful that I've read concerning this war. Let's all hope and pray that it ends quickly with as few casualties on either side as possible. At this point it seems too evident that the war is going to happen. The best we can hope for is for it to end quickly with as few lives ruined from it.
welll, i had a good size response but the DB would not have it so... a shorter version
no chance in hell,
he wont leave, hes planning on making this as painful and as bad for us as he can, hes giving his troops toxn shells, his RG british and US uniforms, and I hear bagdad is ringed with VX(you have no idea how terriblie this $$$$ is), so this is gonna get really nasty really fast. hes gonna try and make it look as if the U.S. and Britain are on a mission of genocide.
lemme just say a have so much respect for Tony Blair now, hes one of the few who did not sell us out for politics and money, he has so much riding on this,
I give him my sincerest thanks, and also to those countries that have stuck with us.
to those hammering vber, give it a sincere thought for a sec, he already mentioned this, but im gonna say it again, if you had to live in israel for a year or two you would probably think a little differently too, remember WTC ok, they deal with this on a 100th the scale up to a little while ago regularly, and the world condems them every time for fighting back, think about seeing your freinds, family, and strangers die, and then get slammed for wanting to stop the ones doing it, i woud be ........ed too.
ok, maybe not shorter.
Don't think I am unaware of what it is like to live in a country suffering the effects of terrorism. We had it for many decades. I just don't see how that could lead someone to find the deaths of Iraqi civillians funny.
minesweeper, we're talking about extremists of Islam, like Saddam and their soldiers, these guys should be killed, if they were in the same position as USA, don't doubt it, they would make the same step, even more blunder.
Like I told in this thread if we are talking about innocents people, of course it's not what I want.
"SADDAM'S SOLDIERS SURRENDER
Mar 9 2003
Mike Hamilton reports from Camp Coyote in Kuwait
TERRIFIED Iraqi soldiers have crossed the Kuwait border and tried to surrender to British forces - because they thought the war had already started.
The motley band of a dozen troops waved the white flag as British paratroopers tested their weapons during a routine exercise.
The stunned Paras from 16 Air Assault Brigade were forced to tell the Iraqis they were not firing at them, and ordered them back to their home country telling them it was too early to surrender."
These are the accounts coming from the "fearsome iraqi soldiers"...
This will be a quick decisive action, nuff said - and the rest of you saying - "someone to find the deaths of Iraqi civillians funny" - you never said anything when saddam was mass murdering his civilians for the last 12years so your whiny comments fall on def earz...
it's the US who really carez about the iraqi civilians - and not the foolz in the streets of europe trying to keep saddam in power.
majority of earthlings think sychdumb hussein is the prime
example of evil on earth.
creatures like sychodum hussein make incompetent
presidents like mr bush, look good.
Well well. Big daddy usa is gone kick its former
step child(saddam) in the butt. now what i cant figure out
is the position of the stupid iranian government
(call them mullahs)
who dont represent even %1 of the iranian ppl
and iranian cultures and are against the war but dont offer
any other solutions.
as the only non ARAB & non SEMITE
country in the middle east iran(the name means"land
of the aryans. its desendents came from south russia 3000
years ago and established the persian empire) was
attacked by sychodum hussein and lost 1 million of its
young boys in that war (50000 by chemical bombs).
plus 100000 survivors crippled by these gas attacks.
at the time(right after iranian revolution). because
of a few minorities(mullahs and their followers)
and their stupid idiocy , iran wasnt popular.
and while iran was under total sanctions by west
(us hostage crisis).
hussein at the time was supported fully, with weapons
and money by following countries.
22 arab countries including kuwate(not syria)140 billion dollars
germany chemical ingredients for bombs&financing
france 120 mirage jets & 25 billion loan
russia 2000 tanks 300 scuds 400 planes&advisors
china 500 tanks 200 scud(B)
and believe it or not;
USA with full satelite support and AWACS support
and by directly entering the war and attacking iran,s navy
advisors(donald rumsfeld at the time was an advisor to
iraqi army) . these help was so crucial that by their own confessions any movement of iranian army was reported
to iraq through washington on minutes notice.
Hypocrytes.
Now mr america wants human rights for iraq. i dont know
about that and i dont care as to why.
but i know one thing and that is that at this junction
sadly or coincidently the interest of the poor average
desolute , helpless iraqi citizen(4/5 of the population)
is shared by no other than mr Big W.
if i was an iraqi i wanted hussein go by any means.
all the peace loving folks against this naked agression
by the us , and i call it that , should remember that
sadam is given the choice to leave iraqi ppl alone but
because of his selfishness and madness poor iraqis
will suffer the brunt of the war. and then they will be:
Free
Edit;
UN should have done this not US.
after the war UN must put in place a law of democracy
for all unellected rulers as such:
"if you enslave your nation UN forces will come to your palace
and cut your head and every member of your family"
SO BE NICE. period
How would you describe the Palestinians dacing in the street on 9-11-2001 then?:confused:Quote:
Originally posted by minesweeper
>>If we're talking about iraq's people yes, same to palestines.<<
I don't think there is a word in the english language that comes close to describing the sort of person who could make a statement like that. I can only hope that you are young and will one day grow up.
war ? ha .. i hate it ! :mad:
Quote:
Originally posted by Vber
And don't get me wrong guys, I'm not an extremist or something from the same type.
Quote:
Originally posted by Vber
we don't want to kill innocents, we want to kill the perverts like, Nassrala (Tanzim), Ahmad Yasin (Hamas) and yasser arafat.
Quote:
Originally posted by zahid
I wander to see your bravery and hope. You uncovered your identification. I am sorry to hear it from you. You know? This is why you people will rarely enjoy the peace. But yeah, life will go on.
We are lucky, hope will never happen in our life.
Iraq cannot win. There is no time limit to this war and the US lead coalition has air supremacy. In Stalingrad, more Germans were killed than Allied soldiers are participating in this war, mostly because an incompetent leader revoked his generals' orders of maneuver warfare and ordered them to dug in and hold at all costs. And they did so, at a very high cost. So if Bush is smart and lets his military experts make decisions concerning warfare, it will be relativly swift. Thinking that a war will cause a minimum of casualties is naive. People will die. People will get maimed, blinded, wounded, hurt. Soldiers. Civilians. Men, Women, Children. Bombs don't see a difference in combatants or noncombatants.Quote:
>Anyone think Iraq can possibly win the war?
I don't think so. Let's hope Bagdad will not be a second Stalingrad and that the war will be over as soon as possible with as less victims as possible
>> if you had to live in israel for a year or two you would probably think a little differently too<<
I'd rather live in Israel than Palestine. Just my opinion based on these fugures.
Israel
0% pop in poverty
<5% illiterate
6/1000 infant mortality
GDP = 110 $US billions (2000)
GDP growth 6%
Palestein
23% under poverty line
14% illiterate
24/1000 infant mortality
GDP = 4.6 $US billions (2000)
GDP growth negative 16% ie getting poorer
source www.worldbank.org
in Jan 2003 Israelies in terrorist attacks
30 killed
127 injured
(Since 1949 :: only in 1978, 1994, 1996, 2001, 2002 (and already) 2003 did the number of Israelies killed in terrorist attacks rise above 50 per year)
in Jan 2003 Palestineans in terrorist attacks
73 killed
1068 injured
1063 arrested
"The Palestinian Ministry of Health announced in the 2nd anniversary of the Intifadha (9/28/02) that the total number of Palestinian killed by Israelis or died as a result of Israeli occupation practices were 2,520."
"The Israeli Foreign Ministry announced that the number of Israelis killed since 9/26/2000 were 624."
>> it's the US who really carez about the iraqi civilians - and not the foolz in the streets of europe trying to keep saddam in power.<<
Some of us question why now.
Why after twelve years after the Gulf War is it imperitive to go in today and not let the UNSC weapon inspectors, who found most of the WMD last war, not continue.
only God knows the answer, and I wish no battle will happen. :(Quote:
Originally posted by Liger86
Anyone think Iraq can possibly win the war? I think it's very possible.
My friend told me that president of Egypt (this is a rumor(or so I think)) is calling upon one billion people to fight for Iraq...
Sounds dumb to me, but we'll see.
You think Iraq has a chance?
I don't think Iraq can win.
Wouldn't it be nice if all threads like this were simple...
>>> Anyone think Iraq can possibly win the war?
... simple troll ...
>>> I don't think Iraq can win.
... simple answer... but no, they just amble along getting hot and tedious, spawning others along the way.
Hmm Zahid, didn't you know that Tanzim are from Yasser Arafat? These guys were supposed to protect Yasser, these group is manipulated by Yasser, all the money they receive is from Yasser, but what exactly this group do? They do competition against hamas to see who kill more people faster, and not soldiers, they are afraid from soldiers, they go and kill civilians.
They want war, so why they can't fight against IDF?
edit::
>I'd rather live in Israel than Palestine. Just my opinion based on these fugures.
there's more to life than figures you nerd.
::edit
concerning your number quotes, i hardly believe that 0% of israel is in poverty... that sounds pretty unbelievable, whats the defined poverty level? is it the same for both sides?
second if nations like palistine got some decent leadership and would stop wasting their money and time balming israel for their problems and equiping radicals they might get a decent economy, i dont think Yasser is that bad off.
>
in Jan 2003 Palestineans in terrorist attacks
73 killed
1068 injured
1063 arrested
<
... whose terrorist attacks? israels? whatever.
>
"The Palestinian Ministry of Health announced in the 2nd anniversary of the Intifadha (9/28/02) that the total number of Palestinian killed by Israelis or died as a result of Israeli occupation practices were 2,520."
<
hmm, how many of those people had guns? or were trying to kill israelis?
>Some of us question why now.
hmm, could it have something to do with the new administration? maybe 9-11? you think? jeez thats a toughie to figure out.
_______________
im not saying israels an angel in this conflict, far from it, but they are no where near the level the Palestinians have sunk to, i blame poor leadership.
this conflict has no easy end either, neither sides leadership wants a Palestinian and an Israeli state... but israel has been way more willing to put aside its differences and give the palistinians an amazing comprimize, but the Palestinian leadership, ie Yasser refused to bring and end to it, now only with the fear of U.S. force does he really call off his terrorist minions.
Iraq will not even do this much.
Theres nothing to argue here so don't bother.
"there's more to life than figures you nerd."
Why is it, that time and time again Novacain provides RATIONAL arguments backed up by factual data, and gets nonsense like this back in return?
Irrespective of blame or politics the quality of life for Palestinians is lower than for Israelies hence his original point that he would rather live in Israel than Palestine is completely valid and you have responded addressing an entirely different argument, one he did not infact make.
>> ... but israel has been way more willing to put aside its differences and give the palistinians an amazing comprimize, but the Palestinian leadership, ie Yasser refused to bring and end to it ... <<
hmmm ... did I hear someone from Israel visiting a holy place for the Palestines and virtually turn around the peace process that Clinton had almost pulled off ? ... someone told me he is now the prime minister of Israel !!!
>
Why is it, that time and time again Novacain provides RATIONAL arguments backed up by factual data, and gets nonsense like this back in return?
<
I think my response gave its message quite effectively. it is a point i pester him about often.
>
Irrespective of blame or politics the quality of life for Palestinians is lower than for Israelies
<
So giving a rebuttle on why is somehow irrelevant? wha?
the tone of his response was some-what to say it was Israels fault. Thats the "vibe" so to speak, i get. so i rebuttled with a different reason.
>his original point that he would rather live in Israel than Palestine is completely valid
<
did i say otherwise?
>
and you have responded addressing an entirely different argument, one he did not infact make.
<
his response is on an entirely different argument as well. I think we should make a thread of it.
____
im trying to be nice this thread, gimmie a break.
how about jewish extremists, and christian extremists?`Quote:
Originally posted by Vber
minesweeper, we're talking about extremists of Islam, like Saddam and their soldiers, these guys should be killed
this was proven tobe from a celebration in the early 90's, CNN just pulled the footage from that and said they did it on 9/11. i saw it myself.Quote:
How would you describe the Palestinians dacing in the street on 9-11-2001 then?
>how about jewish extremists, and christian extremists?`
don't hear about to many of them any more do ya?
hes not attaking their religion so lets just not start that ok!
>
this was proven tobe from a celebration in the early 90's, CNN just pulled the footage from that and said they did it on 9/11. i saw it myself.
<
um, tell that to the eye witnesses, and to every other news organization on the earth.
:edit:
yes i agree that is a questionable practice and i disagree with it strongly it does not mean that the aforementioned event did not happen.
>> how about jewish extremists, and christian extremists?
Prove me one case that a israeli extremist went to rammalah and killed innocents, prove it. and If they did it, killed innocents, yes they should me killed.
>> this was proven tobe from a celebration in the early 90's, CNN just pulled the footage from that and said they did it on 9/11. i saw it myself.
This wasn't proved, the images weren't from CNN, the images were from "Arutz 2" from israel and "Al Shafi", and I want you to PROVE from where you read it, ahh, my brother is soldier, and he was there in the "protest" of these palestinians that were joking about what happen in 9/11.
the ones that CNN showed were from something else.Quote:
Originally posted by Vber
>> how about jewish extremists, and christian extremists?
Prove me one case that a israeli extremist went to rammalah and killed innocents, prove it. and If they did it, killed innocents, yes they should me killed.
>> this was proven tobe from a celebration in the early 90's, CNN just pulled the footage from that and said they did it on 9/11. i saw it myself.
This wasn't proved, the images weren't from CNN, the images were from "Arutz 2" from israel and "Al Shafi", and I want you to PROVE from where you read it, ahh, my brother is soldier, and he was there in the "protest" of these palestinians that were joking about what happen in 9/11.
i dont mean to attack any religions, im just saying there are two sides to everything. the period just ended, i will write more later
>>the ones that CNN showed were from something else.
I don't care about what CNN showed, the "protest" really existed, and they were laughing about american people that were killed, imagine to yourself this. Don't want to believe this was true, no problem, you don't have to.
Quote:
Originally posted by the Wookie
the ones that CNN showed were from something else.
you're wrong
I figured Govtcheez would just close my thread if I started a new one on the Iraq war, but do you think Bush should be tried for breaking international law?
More info here
I personally think he should, because I think working together,no matter what it will be, is very important. Doesn't joining an alliance like the UN mean that sometimes you just plain cannot get your way? I mean, the UN is to help each other, it's not to do whatever the United States wants just because the US wants it.
> Govtcheez would just close my thread if I started a new one
Thanks - I don't want to seem like a hardass, but could we just keep the discussion on the war to these threads? I mean - there're 5 already (6 including the one I closed) - that should be enough.
edit: The alternative would be for me to jsut start one definitive war thread where all the war talk goes.
Here we go...
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html
We bombed 10 Iraqi artillery pieces that were in range of our troops.
Despite what u think, I doubt that Bush will be tried. It just won't happen.Quote:
Originally posted by Silvercord
I figured Govtcheez would just close my thread if I started a new one on the Iraq war, but do you think Bush should be tried for breaking international law?
More info here
I personally think he should, because I think working together,no matter what it will be, is very important. Doesn't joining an alliance like the UN mean that sometimes you just plain cannot get your way? I mean, the UN is to help each other, it's not to do whatever the United States wants just because the US wants it.
> the UN is to help each other
Iraq's part of the UN, too...
Good luck trying - and the UN is, as a matter of note and history, done - it has no power and never will from this point on. The security council is absolutely done - the US will never again spearhead any resolutions in the security council and never participate in a security council sanctioned action - it will keep it's vote and veto power but not be involved otherwise.Quote:
Originally posted by Silvercord
but do you think Bush should be tried for breaking international law?
More info here
I personally think he should, because I think working together,no matter what it will be, is very important.
The UN is now just a humanitarian organization - it weilds the same power as the vatican which is nill. The US has never signed on or ever will sign on to the idea of an international court and even if one is created and is viable the US will not participate and US citizens are not bound by the decisions of the court.
If someone wants to create a resolution sanctioning the US you'll find that the resolution will be bounced by the US's veto vote and the country/countries who propose it will be on the bad side of the US so fast that their heads will spin.
The lesson here is that the US will get it's way and even if u disagree with the US it's okay as long as u stay outta the way - dont F**** with the US of A.
2ndly, an investigation will be conducted by the US after the war to uncover the real reasons behind frances veto threats... France has hung itself...
>but do you think Bush should be tried for breaking international law?
More info here
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no, first they cant claim to not have know what serious consequences meant, to OSR's statements, to they didn't do it after the gulf war, they wont do it now, if they do it will go nowhere.
>edit: The alternative would be for me to jsut start one definitive war thread where all the war talk goes.
wouldn't that get confusing?
>>but do you think Bush should be tried for breaking international law?
Better not try, especially in the new International Criminal Court.
Else there is the new 'American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002' so the US can 'rescue' any US citizen being tried under international law. It has also been called the 'Hague Invasion Act'.
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/aspa080302.htm
"The states that have ratified this treaty are trying to strengthen the rule of law," said Richard Dicker, director of the International Justice Program at Human Rights Watch. "The Bush administration is trying to punish them for that."
>>the resolution will be bounced by the US's veto vote
The most used veto power in the UN. (mainly on resolutions on Israel)
The last on UN S/2002/1384 "on the killing by Israeli forces of several United Nations employees and the destruction of the World Food Programme (WFP) warehouse"
Here is a list of the uses of the veto power in the UN.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...o/vetosubj.htm
If you want to read about religious extremists fighting each other, look to Indonesia (inc armed Christian gangs).
http://www.hrw.org/press/2000/06/indo-back0629.htm
> France has hung itself...
I consider myself a pretty friendly individual, but I hope you lose your legs in a car accident and then die in a freak occurance involving your wheelchair, an anvil, 3 mice, a long rope, and the ghost of Rube Goldberg.
Plz leave the US and move to FRANCE -- bunghole. Cheeze Fairy.
In response to the first post I will say that is laughable. Do you remember Vietnam and the shear airpower applied to that asian peninsula? And that was 30, 40 years ago. As demonstrated 10 years ago in Iraq, America can and does use it's airpower effectively, and especially now, as the military has even more advanced systems. A single US bomb will rip several city blocks out of the ground, and sometimes use heavy uranium cores which can penetrate virtually anything. This is why the US is so feared by it's enemies you know. So no, the very idea that Saddam could win is just not realistic. The US will win hands down for sure.
wow, that was a misguided rant.
selected not elected? shut up already, it's over.
its about oil? if we wanted their oil we could have easily had it by lifting sanctions
no one wants to kill Iraqis? duh! it's about the leader
popularity contest? This isn't clinton we're dealing with. Not everyone thinks of the childish fads of MTV as the gauge for governing the US
The Pope? The pope also had a hard time with the idea of punishing pedophiles. No surprise there
France? don't get me started.
I really love when people trained in the political art of ACTING, COMEDY, and MUSIC get going about issues.
thank you (nv), i hate michael moore even more now.
he know nothing about anything, who does he think he is speaking for me? and america, specially when its contrary to fact... hes an idiot.
Michael Moore is a pathetic lump of SH****.
BTW, that's not me talking - but I agree 100%...Quote:
-STORY FROM LONDON-
"American satirist Michael Moore has stormed out of Britain after a bust up with the London theatre hosting his one-man show. The Bowling For Columbine moviemaker performed Michael Moore - Live! to packed audiences for two months before Christmas at The Roundhouse in Camden, North London. But on the penultimate night he reportedly flew into a rage, verbally attacking everyone associated with the theatre because he thought he wasn't being paid enough. During the performance he complained he was making just $750 a night. A member of the stage crew says, "He completely lost the plot. He stormed around all day screaming at everyone, even the £5-an-hour bar staff, telling them how we were all conmen and useless. Then he went on stage and did it in public." Staff retaliated by refusing to work the following night, which led to the show being held up for an hour. Eventually he made a groveling apology to staff and the angry audience finally took to their seats. A source reports that Moore then packed his bags and flew to New York the next day without saying thank you or goodbye to anyone."
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Awww... only $750 a night, Michael?
Yeah... he’s a real working class hero.
Moore is hypocrite and a schmuck.
>>A single US bomb will rip several city blocks out of the ground,
so much for avoiding civillian casualties....sorry we are at war so it is now 'collateral damage'.
>>and sometimes use heavy uranium cores which can penetrate virtually anything.
Yes. Armor busting bombs (Depleted Uranium ammunition).
Nice aren't they. Releasing radiactive dust into the atmosphere and contaminating the land.
Whats the half life on Depleted Uranium?
Do they cause some of the 'Gulf War Syndrome' symptoms?
The horrific birth defects we see.
"the means does not justify the ends'
Does the plan include a clean up the over 350+ tonnes of Uranium used in Desert Storm? (plus what it will use this time)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...480439,00.html
Please keep future discussion about the war to this thread - other threads about the war will be closed.