Training children to commit suicide.

I first heared of children being trained to kill (children under 10yoa) when my father turned on cnn.com and clicked on some video that showd this kind of training. I wan't to know what future these countries are hoping for if their children are growing up believing that they should fly a plane into some big US building.

I've also have seen this same types of reports in Time and US News and World Report magazine.

I personally think that this is stupid and that someone should step in, possibly america. I know that some poeple may and will disagree about me saying that this should stop but there should be a bit of controll about what children around the world learn.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Liger86
I first heared of children being trained to kill (children under 10yoa) when my father turned on cnn.com and clicked on some video that showd this kind of training. I wan't to know what future these countries are hoping for if their children are growing up believing that they should fly a plane into some big US building.

I've also have seen this same types of reports in Time and US News and World Report magazine.

I personally think that this is stupid and that someone should step in, possibly america. I know that some poeple may and will disagree about me saying that this should stop but there should be a bit of controll about what children around the world learn.

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Well you might say you want America to step in, but most of the time America does step in to do something or help someone there's always someone saying we should mind our business.......this sort of presents problem........"ya see?" I think I saw some of that stuff you're talking about now before, I think it was Al Queda or the Talyban who I saw doing this on some videos.

check this out: my mother live in Lebanon (middle east(palestine)) where there are guns on the streets and everyone has them - not sure about my mom, as far as I know she don't -, but she got two of her own kids, my bro and sis, and they are age 11 and 9, and I kind of feal bad that I don't got no idea of what they are doing. I havn't asked my mom about it, but as to look what she act like that is not the case with her children. But it could have been.

so countries are training their masses on how to die... give me some high powered weapons and a listing on their 'school' schedule and i'd be willing to give them some first hand experience.

im sorry but things like this just make me mad. all i really want is to believe there is some hope left for the world and humankind, but all of these fundamentalist yahoos are making it clear that this hope will probably be left unfulfilled...

Quote:

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so countries are training their masses on how to die... give me some high powered weapons and a listing on their 'school' schedule and i'd be willing to give them some first hand experience.

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That would be such a great job. Skip the high powered weapons and just give me a nodachi and I would be happy.

Do you ever wonder WHY these people are willing to die to change the way they live?

Is there anything that YOU believe in strongly enough to 'die for the cause'? Does that make them stronger than us?

>> Well you might say you want America to step in, but most of the time America does step in to do something or help someone there's always someone saying we should mind our business

To these people its a matter of here and now. They are not concerned that their leaders are bad and have less chance / will to change them than you or I. They are concerned that they have the basics to support their families.

When someone like OB Laden offers to build schools, roads, factories, utilities and hospitals the fact that he is a terrorist is low on their list of priorities.

Next thing they know their kids are fundamentlist ready to die for the cause.

WE then bomb their country to punish the few terrorists (or because the resources or position is important to us).

This destroys any chance the rest of the population has of a normal life as they run to save their lives. (as the utilities, factories ect they depend on are first on the bombing lists)




Who would YOU ask for help when the time comes to rebuild?

And so the avalance started.......

"To these people its a matter of here and now. They are not concerned that their leaders are bad and have less chance / will to change them than you or I. They are concerned that they have the basics to support their families."

That statement about how they arn't concerned with bad leaders seems a thought edging towards the extreme. I just finished an anthropology class today where I learned that such people high on the hiarchy list( think kings, chiefs, wise men) are very respected and loved no matter what culture you go to. Yes, people do care about their familys, yet they also care about who rules them as well.

"When someone like OB Laden offers to build schools, roads, factories, utilities and hospitals the fact that he is a terrorist is low on their list of priorities. "

For some, I always need to remind myself that not everyone in the middle east loves Osoma or his cause.



"WE then bomb their country to punish the few terrorists (or because the resources or position is important to us). "

We wish to bomb them because we have pledged our help to Isrial and over the fact that they have murdered thousands of people in our country. Everyone is always mentioning the poor civilians getting killed in the bombings, I do think that not many people are getting killed as antiwar seekers like to think. Our weapons are very advanced, the government tends to target weapons factorys and other places posing threats to our country.

"This destroys any chance the rest of the population has of a normal life as they run to save their lives. (as the utilities, factories ect they depend on are first on the bombing lists)"

Also a good note of thought is that most of the people in the Arab countrys are poor. The governments there are extremely stingy when it comes to helping its citicens. All the rich Sheiks and such you always hear about make up a small percentage of the population, thier government opresses the poor in ways we like not to imagine.

My parents went and traveled in the east about 20 years ago. They were rather discouraged with the filth and attitudes of the men there. As my dad has told me several times, culturally, they just didn't think like us.

Now, don't get me wrong, many of these people are great, and wonderful people, yet the paths they have chosen and the decisions they make deserve the consequences they get. As I like to say, you can't hit a brother with out getting hit back :)

This is pretty typical. Obviously you all think you know better. I find it fascinating that Americans will listen to the US news and believe everything they're spoon fed without questioning the fact that every time a reporter goes somewhere, they can't help but mention how much better we have it. Oh really? You mean that a crumbling justice system, a pair of spineless leaders (As a Canadian, I have Chrietien, about as spineless as it gets) and a total lack of national identity makes us better? There's a popular misconception that the men and women who would fly a plane into a building are cowards and are evil. Compared to what? Using laser guided bombs on a civilization who still travels by horse? The only...I repeat ONLY difference between people is what are you willing to sacrifice for what you believe. It's folly to underestimate the strength of will it takes to knowingly die for a cause.
The superiority exhibited by the American nation isn't the result of morale superiority as you seem to think, but through the ability to commit a force of action unrivaled in the modern world. Since the US seems to think that it's military strength gives it the right to dictate policy around the world, the question of "who's the terrorist" begins to take new meaning and the lines drawn by your leaders begin to blur. Babarism isn't just the brutal slaying of a building full of people, but includes the deliberate starving of entire nations of people. You didn't learn from Britain and France's mistakes from WWI and you certainly haven't learned from Japan, Vietnam or even Cuba. Just where do you people get this sense of greatness? You can't even learn the most basic of lessons.

wow, being american is a no-win situation apparently. I'll tell you what, we don't let people around the world starve. We lead the world in spoon-feeding poor people in other nations. Those people need to get off their tails and create their own wealth and stop holding it against us.

The burden of the wealthiest nation in the world is not that it needs to be hated. Nor should its civilians be targetted by hateful people. We (and Israel) have been continually accused of killing people around the world. In Iraq, a dictator who's policies and greed starve his people the people have blamed us. Why? Sanctions. We refused to trade with them. So when we don't spoon-feed a nation with a wealth stream we are killing their people. Interesting. Our "laser guided bombs" are never aimed at civilians on horseback. Only a fool would believe that. Never in history has a nation taken more care NOT to hit civilians in a war. But it happens.

When the world sees that they can create their own wealth and they don't need to hate the wealthy, this will all go away. But that'll never happen. Human nature dictates that we're all a bunch of idiots.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Nova_Collision
This is pretty typical. Obviously you all think you know better. I find it fascinating that Americans will listen to the US news and believe everything they're spoon fed without questioning the fact that every time a reporter goes somewhere, they can't help but mention how much better we have it. Oh really? You mean that a crumbling justice system, a pair of spineless leaders (As a Canadian, I have Chrietien, about as spineless as it gets) and a total lack of national identity makes us better? There's a popular misconception that the men and women who would fly a plane into a building are cowards and are evil. Compared to what? Using laser guided bombs on a civilization who still travels by horse? The only...I repeat ONLY difference between people is what are you willing to sacrifice for what you believe. It's folly to underestimate the strength of will it takes to knowingly die for a cause.
The superiority exhibited by the American nation isn't the result of morale superiority as you seem to think, but through the ability to commit a force of action unrivaled in the modern world. Since the US seems to think that it's military strength gives it the right to dictate policy around the world, the question of "who's the terrorist" begins to take new meaning and the lines drawn by your leaders begin to blur. Babarism isn't just the brutal slaying of a building full of people, but includes the deliberate starving of entire nations of people. You didn't learn from Britain and France's mistakes from WWI and you certainly haven't learned from Japan, Vietnam or even Cuba. Just where do you people get this sense of greatness? You can't even learn the most basic of lessons.

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####ing well said, man.

>####ing well said, man.

i disagree...

i am an american. this is something i had no say in, and would not change if i did. i have (or had) nothing against any person of any nationality in the world. i have led my life to the best of my ability and welcome peace and prosperity among all humankind.

and yet I personally am being targeted by some people i had never heard of until a year or so ago for something I had nothing to do with. suddenly there is a war being waged against me and there isnt a thing i could say to these people to stop it. its not like my country was streaming cruise missles into their towns on a daily basis. we had done absolutely nothing and suddenly there is a jihad cruisading into our cities killing people that didnt even know what jihad means.

the strength of their beliefs is no excuse for what they are doing. if someone came running into Boise saying people from Idaho are secretly training hippos to wage holy war on other planets and started killing people, he would be quickly removed from the genepool and denounced as a wacko. and yet these people that claim their God wants all americans dead because we happen to have some money and our country's founding fathers supported a slightly different God that would rather everyone live, are defended world-wide by brainwashed psychos that feel it is their right to kill americans because "it is america that is evil. we kill world leaders that torture their people and dont support leaders that break treaties and crash planes into buildings so we are obviously policeing the world and throwing our weight around. we must be stopped before the evils of freedom spread around the world and corrupt our children!" we arent trying to control the world. we are trying to SURVIVE. if it werent for crazed zealots with war on the brain, we wouldnt send a single military person beyond our borders except to feed YOUR country.

i dont feel there is much more i can say, and probably what i have said so far has been in vain. like i said before, there isnt a thing i can say to prevent you from brandishing your bomb-belts and small-pox syringes and loading up the barge to america. the human race will be wiped out anyway, and i would be willing to put money on that it will be because of religious quarrels...

Apparently, many of you missed the point of my post. I am NOT anti-american. I don't care what country someone comes from. My point was, when are American's going to realize that it is NOT their responsibility to poilice the world? Who elected you? Who chose you? God? That's a laugh, when God has become such a hate entity in all circles. What I was saying was that none of you have a moral superiority that gives you the right to dictate policy. Look at what Bush is doing RIGHT NOW. He is trying to dictate world policy by forcing a war in Iraq that is completely unnecessary. Iraq doesn't have the infrastructure to present a danger to the US, and even if it did, any country that attacks without provocation is called an aggressor by the UN. Iraq attacked Kuwait in 1990 and started the Gulf War. This time, the US plans to preempt Iraq and lay the smackdown before a single ally's life is lost. Unfortunately, I don't buy Colin Powell's claims and Intelligence circles around the world are trying to SPECULATE what kind of evidence he's got. If some of the greatest intelligence organizations in the world, including the SIS, the Mossad and the RVS can't come up with evidence that Hussein has weapons of mass destruction, then whatever the US has is suspect.
Once again, I am NOT anti-american. I just would love it if the US would recognize that it is not superior to the rest of the world.

> are American's going to realize that it is NOT their responsibility to poilice the world?

When the world recognizes that as well. If we stopped sending aid to other nations and stopped providing support, the backlash would be enormous. We can't win in any case, as fyb said.

Oh, and as a final note, since when does protesting against American actions make me a suicide bomber? That was more than just insinuated in those posts and that in itself is American's problem. "If you're not with us, you're trying to kill us, so we'll kill you first"

> since when does protesting against American actions make me a suicide bomber?

Wait, huh? Are you reading the same page I am?

my post was not directed at a particular person, but rather at anyone claiming by any stretch of the imagination that muslim extremists had any right whatsoever to do what they did.

in my eyes, defending or justifying them is as bad as committing the crime itself. backing their actions gives them more confidence in the future to perform more heinous acts.

and, since continual referances are made to saddam hussein, i think anyone as insane as this man clearly is deserves to be removed from power and, if possible, shot without trial. and not because of what he 'might' do, but because of what he does on a daily basis.

and, as a side note, dont tell me that if your country was the only major super-power in a world full of quarreling, ungrateful, power hungry zealots it would do anything different. by 'policing' the world we are protecting our own interests.

>My point was, when are American's going to realize that it is NOT their responsibility to poilice the world? Who elected you? Who chose you? God? That's a laugh

so its ok to kill innocent american citizens who have no control over their leaders? thats what your words seem like to me. ive said this before: I did not choose to be an american, and even though i enjoy my life as an american, i have no control over what the leaders of my country do. if you want a peaceful world, STOP SUPPORTING TERRORISM. bombing me will not help your cause in the least.

Ok, I'll post one more clarifier. Perhaps I was unclear in my original post, but I never once said I supported their actions. What I said is that it is unwise to underestimate the willingness to give your life for a cause.


"I personally am being targeted by some people i had never heard of until a year or so ago for something I had nothing to do with. suddenly there is a war being waged against me and there isnt a thing i could say to these people to stop it. its not like my country was streaming cruise missles into their towns on a daily basis. we had done absolutely nothing and suddenly there is a jihad cruisading into our cities killing people that didnt even know what jihad means." ...

In Afghanistan, the fraction of population that the Al Quaida(sp?) make up is insignificant, yet, the American population thought that it was justifiable to bomb their cities and towns. How does that make you morally superior again?

Not to mention the fact that the US isn't under attack because of its wealth or prosperity, but because the US dictates policy around the world. To say that you are under attack simply because of your wealth is naive and shows just how little you are involved in your country's politics.

Much of this started with the formation of Israel. I support the nation of Israel, but I'm not ignorant to the fact that Palestine was STRIPPED of the territory that makes up Israel. You're trying to tell me that this wouldn't ........ you off?

Finally, if the US attacks Iraq, won't Iraq's allies be angry and want vengeance? Since no one can directly assault the US, they end up using terrorism. I call terrorism a cowardly act by nature, although sometimes even a pawn has courage.

When it comes down to it, the US is the only nation in the world to use a weapon of mass destruction against a civilian population, anyway. NO ONE else has done this, yet you still think you have the moral highground here. Tell me why, so I can understand.

Oh, and before I go, nations fight and civil wars rage. Tell me, would the north and south have liked it if a larger, more powerful nation stepped in and put a stop to your war of independence? Told you to live together in peace? With two sides who hated each other being forced to live together, the US would never have come so far. When it comes down to it, if a nation is fighting a civil war, the US has no right to step in. If two nations are fighting a war and neither requests the US's help, the US has no right to step in. This is what you so quickly seem to forget.

i never ever said i was morally superior.

i said i have the right to live and no one has the right to kill me.

>To say that you are under attack simply because of your wealth is naive and shows just how little you are involved in your country's politics

would that the world could forget the words 'politics' or 'war.' remember, we are all supposed to be the same species. we are supposed to be working together, and im sure the world would be a lot further along if we had. i have a pet chihuahua, and he doesnt care if the rump he is smelling is a laborador or a poodle. why should we... (assuming we like smelling rumps)

>would the north and south have liked it if a larger, more powerful nation stepped in and put a stop to your war of independence?

i consider england a more powerful nation, and if i remember my history texts correctly, england tried to stop us from being a country alltogether. im sure if england had bombers and sattelites, they would have bombed the heck out of us during the civil war and took it all for themselves. i dont hate english people because of it...

>the US is the only nation in the world to use a weapon of mass destruction against a civilian population, anyway. NO ONE else has done this, yet you still think you have the moral highground here

you forget that when these nuclear bombs were dropped, people had no idea they were going to be as destructive as they were. they didnt know about fallout or nuclear winter. plus, this was over 50 years ago, neither me nor any leaders of this country had anything to do with the bombs on japan in WW2. this is like black people still complaining about slavery and wanting everyone that may or may not have had great great great great grandparents that might have known someone who was related to someone that owned a slave to pay repairations for all the damage done to modern black people who have never seen a cotton field in their life. i bet abraham lincolns great grandchildren are paying repairations. STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PAST, IT CANT BE CHANGED.

i dont like to argue. i hate that wanting world peace is seen as grounds for debate. this fact alone shows me what state the world is in right now...

Why is the US citizen responsible?


The US government allows its companies to PROFIT from arms sales to these places. See US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs report, 'US Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual-Use Exports to Iraq', into arms sales to Iraq (right up until March 1992).

This included anthrax, brucella melitensis (which damages major organs), clostridium perfringens (which causes gas gangrene), VX nerve gas, salmonella, E coli, West Nile fever germs and botulism.

I quote the report
"The United States provided the government of Iraq with 'dual use' licensed materials which assisted in the development of Iraqi chemical, biological and missile-system programmes."

The US gov then decides that it does not like the way that these 'arms ' are possibly going to be used.

If the average US citizen is not responsible for the actions of the country they live in then answer me this;

Why Australians (and others) should spend our taxes and our soldiers lives to get these items back?

Why the US government can dictate to the UN (ie the rest of the world) what regimes are allowed and which are not?

Who is responsible for the actions of the US government? (now and in selling these items to Iraq)



Just as you don't think you are responsible, do you think the average Iraqii thinks they are responsible for Sadam's actions?

What do you think their reaction will be when bombs start dropping on their homes and factories?

Who will THEY blame, the US or Sadam?

If they decide to blame the US I would not expect the level of terrorism to drop any time soon.

I love how ppl think the US was not justified for what we did in Afghanistan - we were totally justified, in fact we gave the TALIBAN a full month to comply or else - handover bin laden and the terrorists or else.

1 month passed and or else came to the taliban - within 6 weeks the whole country was liberated - remember we also allied ourselves with the northern alliance and today most of the population are happy that their repressive regime is gone. Measure 6 weeks against the 25+ years that country has been at war.

I heard alot of moronic arguments lately that war is never JUSTIFIED - are u saying that includes world war 2, the Korean war and a host of others - maybe we shoulda just laid down and gave in to the japanese.

We have given IRAQ 12 years to dissarm ITSELF or ELSE... 12 friggin years, now I say that is generous beyond beleif. Or ELSE is upon us NOW and IRAQ will capitulate - the arguments for war were delivered today at the UN by Sect. COLIN POWEL. This is tant amount to a GREEN LIGHT we are going and the UN and the rest of the world will not stop us and since I am a gamblin man - Australia, Britain, Italy, and probably France are gonna go in with us. You either play the game or sit on the bench and when the S*** goes down those countries and probably more will choose to play with the US.

Also, I have never seen the US stop any war that was not wanted to be stopped. In Kosovo and Bosnia it was EUROPE who led the attacks and really commanded the whole thing as it was a EUROPEAN problem - the US provided significant military assets in those operations but only b/c it commitments to NATO required us to.

I heard some of our retired generals speculating that in Baghdad we're gonna cut off their water and food supplies and starve them out - so I don't know what ya'll are whining about your soldiers are gonna be in the 'rear with the gear' serving american soldeirs meals and polishering their tanks. In fact that's all we're ax'in fer is your cooks, waiters/waitresses, and cleaning personel.


Shine my shoes, BOY!

>We have given IRAQ 12 years to dissarm ITSELF or ELSE... 12 friggin years, now I say that is generous beyond beleif

On WHAT authority CAN the US say "DO xzy OR else"

>I heard some of our retired generals speculating that in Baghdad we're gonna cut off their water and food supplies and starve them out

Yeah, AND how MUCH of the general POPULATION will be AFFECTED by this -- DO THEY deserve to be punished FOR what SADDAM has DONE?

Maybe you're right. You see, I'm feeling unusually prejudice toward novacane, ..., and *ClownPimp* as we speak. No, not for their race, religion, or nationality, but for their sheer stupidity. I suppose prejudice toward stupid people could be seen as a character flaw. As an american with this character flaw I think I can understand you're hatred now. Damn me. Damn america.

of course that brings up an interesting conflict or paradox if you will. if it's my stupid people bias that makes be bad, then how is it that someone so stupid could be so right about america. oh the conflict!

Quote:

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Originally posted by *ClownPimp*

Yeah, AND how MUCH of the general POPULATION will be AFFECTED by this -- DO THEY deserve to be punished FOR what SADDAM has DONE?

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I would love to hear your alternative! We can't walk in there
and take saddam. What's with your caps lock by the way?

> I would love to hear your alternative! We can't walk in there
and take saddam. What's with your caps lock by the way?

I have no alternative, although there is no reason to "starve" them out since cutting off water, etc, will also affect innocent civilians. WIth our far superior military might im sure we can find a more direct approach. Furthermore, that comment was a result of me accidentally mixing replies of OSR and ... in my head.

>What's with your caps lock by the way?

Just me mocking OSR :p

Hmmm....interesting...Let's see....

If the US is justified in attacking Afghanistan, then Japan was justified in Pearl Harbor. The US was dictating world policy again, with most of the world aquiescing to their demands. Japan was a few months away from a total economic collapse. How many would have starved and died in poverty?
Then you say, "We didn't know that a nuke would cause mass destruction, so it's not OUR fault." Really? You mean to tell me that after numerous tests and experiments, AND after the warnings from the scientists who helped developed fission, that the US can claim ignorance for one of the worst terrorist attacks in modern history? That's typical of the American "It's somebody else's fault" mentality.

Moving on.....
No one has yet admitted that the US does not know better than the rest of the world. You make it sound as though your civilization is the best on earth. Take a minute and look at your crime rate. It's the worst in the world, and yet you feel sanctimonious enough to tell other nations that their ways are "backward" or "sexist" or "barbaric". Now you tell me "Why can't we all just get along?" Why don't you ask yourselves that? How often has another country stepped in to stop the US from doing something? And on the rare times that someone has, what has the US done in response? Bomb their country.

Back to WW2, I find it interesting that you say that that war was justified, but only mention the pacific theater. Hitler was commiting mass genocide, yet the US didn't step in until Britain had gained the upper hand. Apparently, the US won't fight a war it's not sure it can win even though millions may die in concentration camps. Where is that moral superiority now?

The best of American hypocrisy came with 9/11. The World Trade Center fell and the US demanded the total surrender of the Taliban. Okay, I understand that. I really do. Unfortunately, your entire perspective was negated with what you did after that. Israel has been under constant terrorist attack since it's inception in the late forties. (Can't remember the exact year). So, while you aggresively attack the Taliban for one act of terrorism, you tell Israel that it has no right to counter attack Palestine for MANY acts of terrorism. Who the hell do you think you are? If anyone has the right to aggresively defend it's sovreignty with lethal force, its Israel, but the US denounced the helicopter strikes while F-18s demolished towns and villages in Afghanistan. What I want someone to answer is this : If it's okay for you to use lethal force to assasinate terroists, why can't Israel?

Finally, to any American who would say that its not their responsibility when their government does something, then why was it necessary to nuke Japan? Attack Vietnam(Even though the only problem with Vietnam was its ideology)? Smash the entire economy of Iraq? Sanction Cuba(Not to mention your deplorable handling of the Elian Gonzalez incident : Since when is it okay to use the plight of a small boy to pressure a foriegn nation?)? Hell, the US even tried to sneak attack Canada simply because you wanted to expand your border. Much of this did happen a long time ago, and I'd be happy to let it go, but the US is using events long past to justify current actions. If you can, so can we,

Yours and others lack of knowledge about history astounds me - I am conflicted on whether to let your stupidity lie and your dumb ass statements be or be kind and give you a history lesson....
???

FillYourBrain>>You see, I'm feeling unusually prejudice toward novacane, ..., and *ClownPimp* as we speak.

Spell my name right or I will have to bypass the moderators and call in a 'pre-emtive strike' on you. We know it was an act of provication.

We all know you use 'goto', don't use the FAQ or the search and are a 'void main'er'.

These kind of actions will not be tolerated any longer.

You know I have the higher post count on this board so you better do what I say.


PS would you like to buy some viruses, cheap, for later?
Just don't tell anyone where you got them and promise me you won't use them on anyone I like.

> You know I have the higher post count on this board so you better do what I say.

He's right, fyb - he out-losers you. My hands are tied :)

See even the Universal Noderaters are on my side.

Give up your evil ways FIB or suffer the wrath of the righteous and more powerful.

We are sending in the inspectors to ensure you have no pirate software.

We know you do and are willing to use it.








Govtcheez>>He's right, fyb - he out-losers you.

Umm.......If you have a higher post count, does that mean you 'out-loser' me?