YouTube - Microsoft Kinect - Lifestyle Video - Xbox360
This looks dumb. If this is what families do for fun,
I'm going to pass on ever having a family.
Obviously not for those of us who have downstairs
neighbors and aren't jerkholes.
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YouTube - Microsoft Kinect - Lifestyle Video - Xbox360
This looks dumb. If this is what families do for fun,
I'm going to pass on ever having a family.
Obviously not for those of us who have downstairs
neighbors and aren't jerkholes.
As dumb as the Wii gadget.
with 10x the input lag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario F.
Please don't feed the (Wii fanboy/anti Microsoft because they're taking Nintendo's idea and making it better) troll.
So I just watched Microsoft's e3 Keynote.
The exercise game for Kinect looks pretty awesome;
better than Wii Fit, anyway. The ability to navigate
the UI with voice and and gestures seems really rad.
The best thing about their keynote was the new
Metal Gear Solid game exclusively for XBox 360. My
God, that game looks amazing.
Two more keynotes to go (Sony and Nintendo tomorrow).
While I'm most excited for Nintendo's announcements
(new Zelda, woot! New 3D handheld, woot!), their
presentations are kinda sorta boring.
Zelda never disappoints.
I'm getting really excited for the new Deus Ex too - I don't know if it's supposed to be out this year or next but it looks very interesting.
On that note so does Portal 2 (I think ready by the end of summer?) since it's going to be an actual full-blown game and not a two hour romp through Aperture Labs (not that there was anything wrong with that, but we all wished there was more). But now I'm just listing new games and that makes me feel like I'm trying to sound like the cool kid on the block. I think I'll go play a bit on my PS1 if you don't mind. :)
Portal 2 got delayed until next year.
Oh neat. Metal Gear Rising is not exclusive for 360.
It's also coming to PS3 and, more importantly, PC!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKU_od-oN8o
I never really like Microsoft or Sony's presentations since they're so full of crap games. Hehe.
Anyway, Kinect (no idea why they changed the name) looks pretty bad. The lag is a killer. Sorry, Microsoft, you just wasted a lot of money on this. If only you had been able to eliminate the lag you maybe could have accomplished something, but...
But let's see what Nintendo has in store :)
The lag is merely a technological hurdle. Eventually will be dealt with. What worries me about Kinect and the Wii gadget technologies is them being used as colored glasses to what are essentially low quality games. It's already a day for celebration when a good game hits the streets these days. But with a new toy to distract from deficiencies in game design, gameplay and story, I suspect things will only get worse.
The last part you mention will probably get better with time. The first I am not so sure.
Nintendo was able to show that the motion controller really did work, but Microsoft has failed to demonstrate that the Kinetic thingy really works. At least from what I've heard. Have to watch all that later.
Well, Kinect is a huge step forward Elysia. It can eventually motion-capture your entire body to an inch precision. I mean, we can forever discuss lag. But that's entirely missing the point.
I'm however slightly curious as to exactly what lag are we talking about. I'm not at E3 (duh!), but the videos I've been seeing have ranged from discernible movement with 0 lag, to not being able to make out what is happening between the "actor" and the game. I'm yet to see a video where this lag is actually showing.
There's however something more troubling to me than this supposed lag. In the link below you will see a video where the actor from Cirque de Soleil is clearly not playing the game. He is imitating the player character, not controlling it. The first time I saw it my jaw dropped. Is this a joke? I'm not into this whole motion-control thing. By far. But even I felt offended.
But then I had to collect my thoughts. I just can't believe Microsoft is lying about a non existing technology on E3. That would be a shocker. So here's what's happening:
- The video is just showing us a bit of that presentation. It actually ran for far longer than that. We are seeing a rather dull moment when Kinect is actually not taking place. The actor is just getting in sync with the game character and getting ready for when the battle takes place and Kinect kicks in. This technology does require players to sync with the game characters since a motion-control technology will nudge players into doing this. Especially for combat scenes.
- Microsoft apparently announced this was footage from actual game play. I'm not sure if this means the actor is just showing the audience what the gamer did. This is one of the explanations I read somewhere. But I don't find it convincing. You don't throw in a new technology at E3 with a pre-made video footage and bad acting, the same you don't go to a rock concert to hear your favorite band do playback. You'll get angry. I'm more inclined to the first explanation.
Here's the video: Get A Look At Kinect's Star Wars Game
O_o
Wow. That's got to be a kick in the teeth for everyone who was looking forward to the demonstration.
*shrug*
Maybe the lag goes both ways!?
Soma
Ok, about the lag/latency I was pointed towards this article on Eurogamer. It's quite a good read in fact. It also explains a lot of what's happening behind the technology.
The e3 presentation does make it look better than the videoQuote:
Originally Posted by Mario F.
in the OP.
Still, lay off the Wii dude. That is a threat.
I keep a Wii next to my computer at all times holding down some important papers and what have you.Quote:
Originally Posted by ethic
So far, Nintendo's 3DS announcement is the most
technologically impressive. 3D camera, ability to watch
3D movies, improved graphics over DS. All without
having to wear glasses.
While the 3DS is clearly a gimmick that will not take off very far, it's still cool enough of a gimmick that I just might buy one should it be priced as reasonably as all Nintendo products have in the past.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight...Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom
Whatever dude.
Okay. Just like dual screens was a gimmick. And here we are,Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom
130 million units sold in 6 years and the #2 best selling gaming
machine of all time (right behind PS2 which had a 4 year head
start).
Nintendo knows the market and has more success in it than
any other company.
Sure. Whatever you say.Quote:
Nintendo knows the market and has more success in it than
any other company.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say ALL motion sensing technology for both computers and consoles amount to expensive gimmicks that get old fast.
The only one I really like on the PC is the TrackIR b/c it is very useful for flight simulators and combat flight sims. Nothing beats not having to use the hat switch to look around when a bogey is on your six spraying gunfire at you or your opponent fired an IR or radar homing missile and it has your name on it. Nothing beats that. It's also nice in FSX when you can look around by moving your head - very good practice for the real deal since during my lessons I pretty much had to keep my head on a swivel at all times.
But the difference between TrackIR and the other gimmicks is that TrackIR serves a purpose and solves a problem every flight simmer has experienced for decades. The Wii took away my controller and replaced it with a half-baked motion sensing gimmick which adds nothing to the experience (except annoyance when the thing doesn't read right) and yet no one ever asked Nintendo to take away our controllers. Now people are trying to take away the mouse and keyboard yet no one in the PC world is complaining about the mouse or the keyboard. We like our mice and our keyboards. I work with touch screens everyday on our embedded systems and thankfully we have some debug only keyboard shortcuts so we don't have to use the stupid screen all the time.
That Track IR nonsense has always looked lame to me. You
move your head, but have to keep your eyes straight at the
screen still. That's not natural. Seems like it would be better
just to get 5 monitors and 5 video cards and create a semi-
circle around you.
TrackIR does feel more natural with 2 or 3 monitors since you do have to move your head. However you can adjust the sensitivity so you don't have to move your head as much to look left/right up/down in the game.
And Zelda is every bit as glorious as one would have hoped!Quote:
Originally Posted by bernt
YouTube - The Legend of Zelda: The Skyward Sword Trailer - E3 2010
I'll say that and I won't feel nearly as bad doing so... motion sensing is a gimmick. It is a poor way to interface in gaming and a terrible way to interface in anything else...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
Motion-sensing technology has existed in some form or another in arcades and in the home for almost as long as I can remember... it hasn't taken off... it's not taking off now, it's just trendy for the time being... the people who think motion sensing is the future of video games are the same people who think 3D is the future of movies because Avatar was such a big hit and everyone is making 3D movies now. Try talking about the future of movies with the creators of Jaws 3D. They're gimmicks... people get excited for a while and then they get bored and it fades away for another 10-20 years.
... and as far as the DS sales and the Wii sales... you might as well cut them in half when comparing them to competitors because that's essentially what you have to do to compare in terms of revenue; the figure that actually means something. You don't see too many people in furniture going around saying particle board is way better than hardwood because Ikea is selling about five times as many units as any fine furniture store.
Yeah. That explains a lot why you like the Wii.Quote:
Originally Posted by ethic
Looks childish. But then again, that's all you really get on the Wii.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario F.
I have no idea what you're trying to say with this paragraph.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom
Nintendo
Yup. Creativity and gameplay over BIG EXPLOSIONS PEW BANG!Quote:
Originally Posted by either Mario F
I have a beautiful inner-child. See, man; I like fun.
Yeah. Because the experiences you get on other machines areQuote:
Originally Posted by Zacs7
just so adult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
Absolute nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom
Motion sensing is not a fad, nor a gimmick. A with all technology, it takes a while for developers to put it to good use.
Metroid Prime 3 put it to a pretty good use. It was fun. Now, hopefully, Zelda Skyward Sword will do the same.
Oh yes, there have been poor games (Force Unleashed comes to mind) where the motion sensing just didn't work right. That is not the fault of the concept. It may be the games or the hardware, but not the concept.
It's the future. Accept it.
Oh, and about the whole "we didn't ask for it" and "if it isn't boken, don't fix it" analogy... it's ridiculous. If we stayed true to that, we'd be stuck in the stone age. The thing is, we need evolution and revolution. You may not have asked for it because it has always worked for you, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be innovation. It simply means that you should try it out. Eventually we adapt to the new way of doing things.
Hey, I mean in the old times, we had a controller with two buttons (plus start and select) and a d-pad. What was wrong with that!?! Why did we need these crappy new controllers with lots of buttons when the old one worked?
I will admit that the graphics style in the new game is a little disappointing, but that doesn't mean it's a bad game. Too long there have always been gamers who simply cannot get off their high horse. The graphics are bad. Bad game. It uses motion sensing. Bad game. It's simply a Wii game. Bad game. It doesn't have blood. Bad game. It doesn't have any swearing. Bad game.Quote:
Originally Posted by zacs7
So what? I enjoy the games Nintendo do as much as any bloody game with gore and bad language and no motion sensing.
Try it before dismissing it. And stray from the whole "graphics is everything" path.
Sigh.
You shouldn't admit that, because they're absolutelyQuote:
I will admit that the graphics style in the new game is a little disappointing
fantastic. They're going for a watercolor-esque painting
vibe and it works rather well.
It's a cross between Wind Waker and Twilight Princess.
I can't think of any other games that so willingly adopt
different art styles for their sequels. And that's why
Nintendo is awesome. It's not some blind "fanboy"
admiration; it's a recognition of the fact that, unlike most
other developers, Nintendo actually takes chances and
does different things.
I can guarantee you that when Sony announces the
PSP2, it'll "borrow" heavily from the 3DS.
No, I don't like it. The Wind Waker style fitted fine for its environment. The realistic style for Twilight Princess was also well. Unfortunately, this new blend looks just silly.
I commend Nintendo for trying out things, but I don't necessarily have to like them. I wish they would go back to TP style.
They only think I think they need to work on is to
make Link's pants less baggy. Other than that, with
a year of polish left, I fully expect a masterpiece.
This isn't 1993, Nintendo.
Not it's not. It's a gimmick. Admit it.Quote:
It's the future. Accept it.
What if I want to just sit down and play a game without standing up, without moving, without doing the motions in the game...pretty much without looking like an idiot?
Naming some games that work with the technology doesn't make it the future... in fact, it pretty much solidifies my point. Microsoft Flight Simulator is a pretty awesome game to play with a yoke... but it doesn't mean I'm looking forward to the yoke and pedals to take over all of my games... it's a niche market... just as motion sensing has almost proven to be. It's good for some games, not good for all... for every game that you name where motion sensing works I can make twenty where it wouldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
Nintendo has had two things going for them in the past two generations of game consoles... short-term innovation and a lower price-point than their competitors. Don't get me wrong... what Nintendo did with the Wii was absolutely genius in the video game market because they understand the system better than anyone... consoles only last five-six years before they fizzle out and a new generation comes along... that's just enough time to get people hooked on a fad and then give them something different by the time they start getting bored with it.
I actually saw the Kinect 1/2 hour infomerci*cough*presentation on tv (with Cirque de Solei "imagining" the presentation). It looked like it would be a neat event to actually attend, but if I wasn't curious how they would showcase the Kinect I wouldn't have bothered to watch it at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario F.
Each time they showed the Kinect "in action", I couldn't help but think that the actors failed to put in enough practice to make it look like the on-screen stuff was being controlled by them.
I also own a Wii and got the Star Wars light-sabre duel game for my boy who is a huge Star Wars fan. I also got the attachments that light up so you can "really swing a light-sabre". While playing with the attachments on the controllers, the game doesn't respond very well. While playing without the attachments, the game responds fine but it's awkward to swing and not meet any resistance. I can only imagine things like this on Kinect will be even worse without even a long controller in your hand to give you some sense of the weight.
That said, I really like the thought of this for controlling tv and movie watching. Waving my hand in the air instead of looking for the button on the remote, especially in the dark (ignoring the fact that I have learned my remotes so well that I don't need to look at them to find the buttons I use) would be nice. One big benefit would be never losing the remote or having to change the batteries...
As it turns out, the Kinect can't read you if you're sittingQuote:
Originally Posted by jdragyn
down. So if you want to use it to fast forward, you have
to stand up first and then wave your hand. It can't separate
the player from the furniture or something.
Or so goes the rumblings right now.
It's not a gimmick. I cannot admit what I don't think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
It just shows how much you hate everything new. You just can't accept anything that's different from the traditional way.Quote:
What if I want to just sit down and play a game without standing up, without moving, without doing the motions in the game...pretty much without looking like an idiot?
There is a limit to how much one wants to do, naturally, and overdoing it is just as bad. While I like motion controls, I don't want to stand up and throws my arms around wildly.
But then, you don't need to. Metroid Prime 3, Twilight Princess, heck, even Wii Sports, allowed you to sit down and didn't require exaggerated motion. There is a sweet spot in there and developers need to find it. When they do, it will enhance gameplay.
That's the future.
Although, not all games are fit for motion. But not all games are fit for traditional controls either. I believe different game categories need unique control interfaces. Hopefully, that will come.
I feel like we're arguing semantics here, because nobody seems to be disagreeing with the point that the controller is and will always be a necessary and popular way to interface with video games. So what's the argument? I'm not claiming that motion control will never have its place in video games... it will... but it will be in the same place that the driving wheel, the laser gun, and the dance pad is... a suitable, and possibly preferable, though ultimately unnecessary interface for a small percentage of games.
I've played Wii Sports and Mario Sunshine and Twilight Princess... I've done it all with the Wii controller and it was fun... but every one of those games could be played with a controller. In fact, the latter two would be significantly better with a controller. When you consider this, it becomes a pretty bold statement to say that motion control is "the future." There is a big difference between being the future and existing in the future.
Perhaps we are. I just don't like to see "motion sensing is a fad," since most certainly, that it is not.
Seriously? Is that the extent of your experience withQuote:
Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom
motion control? Two Gamecube Games (one of which
was simply a port to Wii, Twilight Princess) and a four
year old bundled game?
Mario Sunshine can't be played with a Wii controller.
It's a Gamecube game. Perhaps you mean Mario Galaxy,
and if that's the case, you're wrong about it being
significantly better with a normal controller. You can't
get significantly better than BEST OF ALL TIME
You should try some more.
I would say your arguments are apt to describe Kinect
by Microsoft. I absolutely cannot picture that being the
future of gaming. But pre-existing control methods, such
as analog, with motion capabilities and pointer controls
most definitely do offer the better experiences; such as
the Wii mote, or the HD rip-off, the Sony Move.
Also, all 3D game can be played with a D-Pad. That's not
to say Analog control is a fad. It's become the standard.
As, too, will Motion Control. There's nothing the Wii
control scheme can't do that normal control schemes can
(that I can think of); but plenty that Wii can do which the
others can't.
It's not an either/or decision. Motion control enhances
current input methods just like Analog did. The D-Pad
still remained on normal controllers after Analog was
introduced.
O_oQuote:
I just don't like to see "motion sensing is a fad," since most certainly, that it is not.
It was seventeen years ago. It was twelve years ago. It was seven years ago. What makes this time different? Sure, the technology is a lot better, but it is still crap.
O_oQuote:
Metroid Prime 3 put it to a pretty good use.
What's up with all these crappy examples? In "Metroid Prime 3" I had to operate mechanisms associated with the characters left hand with my right hand. Pulling a lever with the wrong hand does not provide an immersive experience.
"Metroid Prime 3" put the pointer ("light gun technology") to great use, but the use was really no better than any of the other first/third person shooters on the Wii.
That's some nice fanaticism. The only part of "Mario Galaxy" that used motion sensing (not the "light gun technology"), as far as I can remember, was twitching the controller to make Mario spin. Even the mechanic bits using the pointer felt like a horrible last minute addition to the game.Quote:
Perhaps you mean Mario Galaxy,
and if that's the case, you're wrong about it being
significantly better with a normal controller. You can't
get significantly better than BEST OF ALL TIME.
"Mario Galaxy" was an great game. It would be awesome if you could play it with an XBox 360 or PS3 controller.
If motion sensing is so awesome, tell us a game that makes good use of it. I don't want to look like a fool while playing the game. I don't want a pathetic experience. I want a decent mechanic that isn't exhausting or annoying. Where is this game?
Soma
What is "crap"?Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomotap
Those mechanisms were pretty sweet, regardless of whether it was the correct hand or not.Quote:
What's up with all these crappy examples? In "Metroid Prime 3" I had to operate mechanisms associated with the characters left hand with my right hand. Pulling a lever with the wrong hand does not provide an immersive experience.
Metroid Prime 3. This one I know.Quote:
If motion sensing is so awesome, tell us a game that makes good use of it. I don't want to look like a fool while playing the game. I don't want a pathetic experience. I want a decent mechanic that isn't exhausting or annoying. Where is this game?
Wii Sports wasn't half bad, even though it's a pathetic game in itself.
Wii Sports Resort probably isn't bad, but I've never played. It isn't a very fun game anyway.
And hopefully the upcoming Zelda: Skyward sword.
o_OQuote:
That's not to say Analog control is a fad.
Thirty years of pedigree suggests that analog control is not a fad.
Seventeen years of motion sensing being "employed" and promptly "forgotten" suggests that it is a fad.
In the context of the motion sensing abilities of the "Wiimote"?Quote:
What is "crap"?
It doesn't work if you move to fast.
It doesn't work if you move to slow.
It doesn't work if you rotate to fast.
It doesn't work if you rotate to slow.
It doesn't work if you rotate the controller out of the expected "normal" orientation before an event.
It doesn't work correctly if the rotation is additionally along an unexpected axis.
It allows you to approximate complex movements with small twitchy movements.
Why? How? Seriously. I want to know what in your mind made seeing Samus gesture while you "controlled" her with the wrong movements throughout the game "sweet".Quote:
Those mechanisms were pretty sweet, regardless of whether it was the correct hand or not.
Soma
Ah, the shortcomings of the technology. I get you. Yes, it can be annoying. That should hopefully become less and less of an issue with time. Hopefully.
What can I say? When I rotate the Wii remote right, she twists her arm right. When I pull it back, her hand pulls back, etc. Good enough for me. They seemed like "right" movements to me.
o_OQuote:
Ah, the shortcomings of the technology. I get you.
O_oQuote:
They seemed like "right" movements to me.
This has been educational.
Soma
There's also the ball rolling and the stingray surfing.Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomotap
Red Steal 2Quote:
If motion sensing is so awesome, tell us a game that makes good use of it. I don't want to look like a fool while playing the game. I don't want a pathetic experience. I want a decent mechanic that isn't exhausting or annoying. Where is this game?
Soma
Tiger Woods PGA 10Quote:
Originally Posted by The Escapist
Wii Sports ResortQuote:
Originally Posted by 1Up
And e3 impressions of the new Legend of ZeldaQuote:
Originally Posted by Giant Bomb
Now go ahead and nitpick and say how none of thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Giant Bomb
matters, or how you don't want to "look like a fool" or
"exhaust" yourself playing these games. But those
are your personal problems that have nothing to do
with the technology itself.
If you seriously become exhausted with this technology,
you have may have some serious health concerns.
I would get that checked out.
I haven't played it. I have the first one; it is a bad dog. I'll check the sequel out when it is in the bargain bin.Quote:
Red Steal 2
A crappy experience regardless of the platform.Quote:
Tiger Woods PGA 10
A crappy experience using motion sensing for games as a gimmick where the pointer would have provided a smoother mechanic.Quote:
Wii Sports Resort
Until the game is actually published, we will not know how good or bad it is.Quote:
The Legend of Zelda: The Skyward Sword
You are right of course. It is my fault that motion sensing technology sucks and using it is almost universally gimmicky while tending to result in a flaky experience. This all happened because of my annoying desire to want a great experience while playing games. If I only wanted to play games with gimmicky or crappy controls the technology would be amazing. It is a major personal problem. I apologize to everyone for my problem. It will be resolved when you all give me all your money.Quote:
But those are your personal problems that have nothing to do
with the technology itself.
Soma
The biggest problem is that many people simply say motion sensing is a gimmick just because it hasn't provided any sensible experience yet.
It is more correct to say that the technology isn't at fault, it is still untested. The games are gimmicks because they fail to deliver a promising experience with the technology.
That much is fine to admit, but dismissing technology that is still unproven is just wrong.
The problem with all of those statements is in the history.
The technology used by the "Wiimote" isn't new or innovative. It has been tried, tested, and applied with success in many fields.
This application of technology isn't the first to appear in the game market for motion sensing. This particular application isn't new to games.
That developers have continued to "fail to deliver a promising experience with the technology" for so many years is safely considered thorough testing.
The evidence suggest that it is a misapplication of technology. I'll grant you that in the fullness of time a few great games may exist to argue for the existence of the application, but that is a far cry from being "the way of the future".
Soma
Many things have existed before, and many things have been tested before. Yet, something that was unpopular in the past may yet become popular in the future.
I don't really think the technology has been properly tested. You'd have to name some games that properly implement motion controls that works. The new Zelda is the only game I know of that implements good motion controls that seems to work properly.
I do believe it is the way of the future, because I simply do no see Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony dropping it in the near future. They've all invested a lot of money into it.
Companies being stubborn with their wares in no way decides "the future". A healthy sense of skepticism is necessary if you ascribe to "buyer beware" at all.
Just some questions from an anonymous third party:
Quote:
But I'm always skeptical of new stuff. Working in tech support like I do, it's my job to think about things in terms of what will go wrong. When someone says, "Hey, this new game console will have -insert gimmicky input or multiplayer thing here- , and it'll be great and it'll sell so much and YOU WILL LOVE IT," I can't help thinking, okay, but how is it going to break? How will it be frustrating and difficult to use? Will it even work at all? How many calls to your tech support group will it generate? Will you hire an effective and well-trained support group to deal with problems, or will this GREAT NEW PRODUCT just turn out to be another rough spot in gaming's history, which is so full of them?
*shrug* I believe it is the future. It may not be a statement, then, as you say.
Actually, the future is a complete collapse of civilization
and with it most forms technology. So this debate is
ultimately pointless.
Why? What makes you believe that? It's quite extraordinary that claim. No past evidence to support it and no real evidence in the present to sustain it. Just a handful of niche and specifically tailored games that offer a modicum amount of motion detection at certain key points, and not always effectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
I could say the future of gaming is controllers. And there is no way you can contradict me. My case is stronger. I have history to support me and the numbers of games across all genres using controllers, keyboard and the mouse as a means of input today and for the foreseeable future.
You are doing futurology to hide your real motivation. i.e. You wish motion detection will be the future. This whole debate wouldn't have started if you'd be honest about it from the beginning.
I think the mouse is the future. Although Hollywood seems to believe that supposed super-geniuses still use keyboards as evidenced in a few recent shows/movies:
- CSI
- Avatar
- Iron Man 2
- Live Free or Die Hard
They are incessantly typing away on the keyboard without any output from the monitor as to what they are typing and tons of crap happens on the screen b/c of it. Really stupid.
Some things work so well they don't need any major re-designs or changes. I'll take a keyboard and mouse any day over any other type of input device.
Because games that implement it well are awesome to play. MP3 was a good one. The new zelda will hopefully be too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario F.
One, two, three, or even 10 games a future do not make.Quote:
Because games that implement it well are awesome to play. MP3 was a good one. The new zelda will hopefully be too.
Not for you, but for me. Even if minority, it will definitely stay into the future.