Looks like they reduced the prices compared to Vista. Who's getting it on launch day?
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Looks like they reduced the prices compared to Vista. Who's getting it on launch day?
not me
you?
:D
Planned to get the business version today...but with the mail strikes over here, the copy I ordered could be anywhere.
Me! $30 for the win :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
People went insane when the Postal Service considered skipping Saturday to stay in business, so that must be like anarchy or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordy
In Europe, the E version will disappear. Included on the retail version is now a ballout screen that will pop up for European Users and will allow them to choose their browser.
Curiously (for Americans. In Europe we are used to EUC sluggish response), Microsoft is still waiting for a reply to their proposal. My opinion: Good on them they didn't wait any longer! It's my guess they fully comply with EU regulations. And if the EUC removes these retail versions from the European market in the upcoming weeks, they'll have an angry European crowd. Microsoft now calls the shots. Kudos!
I've had access to the RTM version for some time now, but I haven't installed it because I am waiting until I get a new laptop. My current laptop, although it could support Windows 7, would not run it very well I imagine. It's a little over 3 years old and has 1 GB of memory, so I want to get a newer computer with 4 GB of memory before installing Windows 7.
Ironically, now when I buy a new computer it will come with Windows 7 pre-installed, and so I won't be able to use my advantageous msdn access...
Running 7RC since it was available, waiting for the mail to install 7 release. Bought a new SSD-HD for this occasion, so I'm expecting nothing short of a performance miracle :)
I like 7. It's all Vista should have been.
Edit: I would have attended the official German Launch of Windows 7, but there is an Oracle Convention at the same time. And Oracle beats Microsoft at catering any time. Last year, they served wild berry tiramisu as one of the deserts. God, I so hope they do it again. I will take one day of the three to just have desert over and over and over, screw SQL lectures or 11g backup strategies.
I believe the official launch is today, not tomorrow. It is already being sold in retail stores now.
Anyway, I have had Win7 Professional for some time now. Since the end of August or so, so I am happy. No need to order, no need to pay.
As in you installed a RTM copy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
Yes, I have installed no less than 3 copies. I should install a 4th one as a backup OS on my desktop, but I cannot really be bothered right now :)
His tomorrow was yesterday which means it is today (see the time of your posts).Quote:
I believe the official launch is today, not tomorrow.
Right. Damn time zones. I suppose that a -8 or more time zone would cause the message to be posted yesterday.
The release date was on my birthday!! I was going to get professional, but the prices here are too high for me to afford at the moment. Any one have any predictions when a price drop could happen, and how much it will drop?
I doubt it will be anytime within the next year.
Your best bet is to either (A) create a savings plan and save up for it, or (B) find a way to get it for free such as through your school and/or job.
You can get Windows 7 for $30 as long as you have a .edu email
Got any details on that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentral
The internet has: microsoft windows 7 $30 .edu - Google Search
Luckily, I work at a school, so I should be able to get it super cheap. But I have to wait a month or so for the education department to set the prices and all.
I think the first wave of people to use W7 are really testers. ;)
I'll be sticking with XP until M$ stops providing updates, but if I was to switch to W7, I'd probably wait until the first service pack is released.
Yea, Windows 7 US Online Store - Student RegistrationQuote:
Originally Posted by Yarin
Vista Home Premium ran me $249.99 and yet W7 Pro is only $219.99. I would say that is a significant difference. Perhaps that is just for launch or only for the d/l version?
Anyways I will be getting it within the next month or two.
Oh hell no. I'm sticking with XP for as long as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
Why are you sticking to XP, if you do not mind saying?
Many people won't upgrade until the first service pack comes out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
Admittedly, some may not. However, it is already extremely popular, as pre-orders are the biggest ever.
Besides, Thantos said stick to XP for as long as possible, not upgrade after SP1.
And what do you care? :)
Seriously though, if I feel comfortable and happy about something and it serves my needs, that's often all I require in order to not feel any kind of inclination towards upgrading my system or a certain piece of software.
If it works and it works for me, why risk breaking it?
Simply curious.
I regard Windows 7 as something of a mega service pack for Vista. They really should have released it to existing Vista users for free :pQuote:
Originally Posted by bithub
Admittedly, I somewhat agree on that one. It really is what Vista should have been.
No you are not. You are just dying for him to say "because I don't like it".Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
No. I am curious. If thantos says he or she does not like it, I ask why because I am curious.
Riiight! :D
XP works and works well. I've rarely had a problem with it. I like staying with a stable system rather then upgrading to a newer system just because it is newer.
Ah, the convenient theory that if something works, then why change it?
Well, it is your choice, so (continue to?) have fun with XP.
Well, it's not like he is still using Windows 95...Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
True, if I saw anyone using W95, I would scream at that someone to upgrade :p
My company is big telecoms outfit, we have totally skipped vista and rightly so, what was the point? I am trial user in the test rollout for some time now and as far as my role goes its bloody brilliant, dont know whether the home user will agree though
That guy really needs to be educated about Linux, but not before he gets whacked hard over the head.Quote:
Well, it's not like he is still using Windows 95...
You speak as if though "if something works why change it" is flawed. Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
You seem happy with your Microsoft stuff, because of that, I'm not trying to sell you on what I use, even though I think it's better. Do you think you'd have better luck converting a satisfied person?
It's not the home user that is a problem. It's the corporate user. You are in fact an exception. Windows Vista introduced, and Windows 7 kept, important changes to the operating system interface and usage patterns that are not at all compatible with many companies busy schedule. If you expect companies will flock to Windows 7 like bears to a honeycomb, you will be surprised.Quote:
Originally Posted by rogster001
Not many companies will willingly accept the added costs of employee training or the reduced productivity that Windows 7 will no doubt temporarily introduce. Don't expect adoption to be sweat on this market. Although I do agree it will be inevitable.
EDIT: And I'm not even considering the obligatory hardware upgrade that Windows 7 will demand on many corporate computers currently running XP under stress already.
Well i suppose thats what i meant by home user really, i.e. I dont hav to worry about additional resource demands to support the os, the build i am provided with is par for the course and if any issues they are remedied without any cost to me
Also from an engineer perspective it offers several features improve mobile i.t. And also the business has microsoft agreement which means can drop licences for other products n use packaged, thus saving money, but we talkin slow rollout all the same
Because it hinders development.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarin
XP was a good OS. So should we stop there? Should Vista and 7 never have come out?
That is the flaw in that attitude. Things that are good enough can still be improved. And if we stick to that motto, then we would miss out the better stuff.
That is why I am so-so against that motto.
To be fair, I can understand that it is a hassle to upgrade to 7, partly because it would have to be a reinstall and partly due to it is a completely new architecture, which is bound to bring changes, and sometimes not always for the best. So the once stable system might become unstable.
But I do think it would be a good idea to try out something new when you get the excuse for it, ie a new computer or the OS crashes and you cannot recover or something like that.
To be honest, I am not entirely a fan of Microsoft software. The ones I use is simply because I know of no better alternative or I simply do not want the hassle to try other software out and adapt to the new environment.Quote:
You seem happy with your Microsoft stuff, because of that, I'm not trying to sell you on what I use, even though I think it's better. Do you think you'd have better luck converting a satisfied person?
Microsoft software is huge, sluggish and treat you as dumb. Usually no settings to configure and so. I do not like it.
Conversions are difficult things. How easy it would be would depend on your definition of satisfied.
Ah! So you agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
That's good to know.
It does get a little obnoxious when we have a discussion like this every time there is a Windows 7 or (previously) a Vista thread. There has to be a time to stop posting. So just.... make sure you're not stirring the pot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
BTW, for students in science and engineering, you can get it for free by joining IEEE as a student member, as student members get full access to MSDNAA. I just joined, not only for this reason :P (I wouldn't pay $30 to get 7 when I have XP and Vista). I'm going to be a computer/electrical engineer... so will join sooner or later anyways.
I sadly still have to run Windows on my laptop, even though I am a lot more comfortable with Linux, since a few engineering programs we use don't have Linux ports. But then it's the same situation for Mac users, so we are not alone.
IMHO, Windows 7 should really be Vista SP3. It has most of the same stuff, no (or little) new features, with a somewhat new interface (is it just me or is the W7 taskbar copied directly from KDE3?). They say major improvements are in optimization and bugfixing. Never knew you can charge money for those. A lot of money. Even Vista had new features and fundamental changes.
It's not fair to post if you are drunk.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfish
I don't think they could have named it Vista. They finally got Vista right. This is the Vista, Gates would want them to have done. Vista launched right into -- and shuffled for 3 long years -- the marketing equivalent of a pool of wet, warm dung. It had to be a new name and repackaging. You just can't expect such a huge mistake like Vista was to not have its consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfish
http://blogs.sun.com/moinakg/resourc...hots/kde1.jpeg
http://news.cnet.com/i/bto/20090108/Windows7.jpg
http://behindkde.org/people/helio/images/kde1.png
They even have the little bar on the right.
Sure, they are now grouping windows together with the program's icon, but isn't that a Mac thing?
Of course, there's nothing wrong with imitating good designs (like what they are doing quite a bit), but shouldn't they contribute a bit of originality for other people to copy, too?
I still don't see the similarities beyond what has always been long established as "If you see a taskbar, you've seen them all".
1. Big square buttons
2. Smaller, floating in the middle, status icons (or whatever you call those on the right)
3. On the right, time on one line, date on the next
4. Vertical bar on the far right
None of those things are in Vista/XP.
Still waiting for virtual desktops.
This is not about Windows specifically, it is about the general idea, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteflags
All it says is that: do not think that what you have is the best. Try other things out, just for the sake of it. You might take a liking to it.
Switching to something new can be done however you want, if you want, at a privileged time.
As for the UI:
Microsoft did not steal it from anywhere. They looked at how people worked and did experiments to increase their productivity.
There are a lot of videos and commentaries about that stuff available on the web. They did research to improve the UI, simply put.
What? As time passes, Windows' UI looks more and more like Linux's, and Mac's, the changes in 7 from XP is evident of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
All they did in researched was check out the competition. But hey, I don't have a problem with that. They saw something(s) good and decided to use them, the better the better. The only thing I dislike in the matter is that people who don't know better assume it's all original.
Perhaps not "steal", but being at a uni where Microsoft comes to recruit all the time ... they love the SE HCI students -- which more than often showcase Linux window managers. Sure once you sign the IP agreement, the idea is theirs but oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
Nothing against Microsoft at all, why wouldn't you want to benefit from other areas of advancement? I would be more upset about Mac selling their OS when it comes with a bunch of free software (like vi, X, etc), so you're basically paying for it.
Ridiculous.
Windows 7 statusbar is... a statusbar. Like so many other statusbars are statusbars. As if Microsoft needed to copy KDE UI elements. Or if KDE UI elements were some kind of Sacred Golden Cow of GUI Excellence in Innovation. Give me a freakin' break!
Find something else to pick. Frankly, there's much better things.
Want one? This is Windows 7 Advanced Search Query. Now, try to search inside all your text files. Useless piece of crap.
Like many others and I have pointed out, there is nothing wrong with copying. People copy good designs all the time. I was merely pointing out the fact (or opinion) that a lot of copying happened between vista and 7.
Linux people copy stuff, too. It would be ridiculous to say the design of modern Linux GUIs (which took off quite a bit later than Mac/Windows) are totally original and independent of existing designs at that time (Mac/Windows). The title bars, top menus, context menus, 3 buttons (close, maximize, minimize), taskbar, windows minimized to buttons, icons, etc.
I am not a big fan of Apple, but they do have many original, effective, and aesthetically pleasing designs. They were successful because they took BSD (and its stability/security/efficiency), which is a very good kernel, and made it easy to use for even the most computer illiterate. That's why they can sell computers with huge premiums and people still gladly buy them.
IMHO Microsoft was like that a few decades ago, too, by popularizing the PC platform with IBM, which gained them their well-deserved marketshare. But now, they are just living off it. Relying on vendor lock-ins and various other questionable business tactics to stay in the game. People don't CHOOSE to use Microsoft products. They are either forced to or (more commonly) didn't know the existence of alternatives. If everyone used open formats, how many people would still shell out hundreds of $s to get MS Office when they can get OpenOffice for free? Is it really THAT much, if any, better?
Compare it to, say, Photoshop. It doesn't employ any of those techniques - graphic formats are largely all open, and good and free implementations are everywhere. For people who only need the basics, GIMP will do. But for designers and other professionals, they use Photoshop because it is a truly superior program in some way. Not because they are forced to.
My implied point was that, while everyone has been copying everyone else's designs, Microsoft has recently contributed very little originality to this pool.
Has it ever occured to someone that perhaps both apple and microsoft has done research on ui and came to the same conclusion? They have not stolen anything right off the bat. Inspired? Perhaps. Also go check out the prototypes of aero peak while you are at it. Perhaps the bat signal might prove interesting.
Certainly possible, but I guess that this is kind of like patents: the first one to make it official gets first dibs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysia
Well, they changed the name of Outlook Express to Windows Mail in Vista (Apple Mail). I wonder what kind of research would tell them Mail is a better name than Outlook.
It just feels like Apple is doing all the innovation (they invented the icons concept, too, didn't they? and the mice, and "status bar"? not sure about this one, and the concept of having windows). What did Microsoft invent?
Linux copied a lot of things, too, but people aren't usually as harsh about them because they are not selling Linux at a ridiculous price.
It just seems strange that Windows even resorted to copying Linux (KDE). That's... copying the copy cat and making a lot of money doing that.
GMail? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cyberfish
I remember being taught in some computer class long ago that the mouse was invented by Engelbart. The relevant Wikipedia articles claim that while Engelbart could be considered as the inventor of a significant mouse prototype, the more modern ball mouse and the concept of an icon as applied to a GUI were invented by the Palo Alto Research Center people (who basically invented the GUI, which the relevant Wikipedia article does not dispute). As for status bar... that may fall under Mario F.'s "a status bar is a status bar" thing, since certain information displays that pre-date GUIs could be considered status bars.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfish
- Apple didn't invent icons. Xerox did.
- Apple didn't invent the status bar. It's a sort of bastardized son of NeXTSTEP dockbar that all operating systems rapidly took ever since. Apple first status bar only appeared with System 7 in 1991. And it was just a small extension to the original Menu bar that also displayed the hour and time of day on the far right.
- Apple didn't invent the mouse. Xerox did.
- Apple didn't invent the concept of windows. Xerox did.
So... really, what were you saying?
Well, if you consider Engelbart's patent: Xerox didn't invent the mouse. The Stanford Research Institute did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario F.
Oh, right. My bad.
Instead it was first used on a Xerox machine.
Meanwhile,
It rhymes, I'll give you that.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfish
Are you sure you aren't the guy saying it looks like Apple?
Ah I stand corrected. I am apparently not old enough to talk about computer history.
I've seen that article before, and I think it's quite unrelated. They are talking about giving people a GUI they have never seen before. We are talking about how much they resemble each other, after seeing both.
A ridiculous claim. They did not copy from Linux.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfish
They poured a lot of research into making people more productive because it is in their best interests. Thus a lot of research and experimentation went into it, but no copying.
You do not think that Linux can take on Windows-ish appearance? That is what KDE4 did. They took the usual Microsoft-way of design and put it to work and I must say that produced excellent results. It would be a good thing if every company put such design to work IMHO.
Well, it seems like they took the "Microsoft-way of design" to design KDE 3 before Windows 7, or even Vista, just after XP came out.Quote:
You do not think that Linux can take on Windows-ish appearance? That is what KDE4 did. They took the usual Microsoft-way of design and put it to work and I must say that produced excellent results. It would be a good thing if every company put such design to work IMHO.
KDE 4 was released almost 2 years ago (stable release), and at least the task bar wasn't much different from KDE 3, circa 2002.
And Windows 7's taskbar became much more similar to KDE3/4's, compared to Windows Vista/XP's. If you don't find it a little bit too similar for coincidence (especially the vertical bar on the right), I'm not sure what will. But that's an opinion, so let's just agree to disagree and move on.
I'm still waiting for my MSDNAA access from IEEE. They say it's going to take about a week... not horribly efficient. Unless some real human has to check the application or something.
You guys not going after that other program? Ermm... DreamSpark or something (too lazy to search for the name)Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfish
DreamSpark only have development softwares and server OSes. No 7 or Vista. There is server 2008, though.
And apparently they just pulled Windows 7 from IEEE's MSDNAA "temporarily" due to abuse. Guess I am back to Linux, then.
Ah! Right. Didn't know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfish
Shame. Hope it will be back.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfish
this is all just buisness and Microsoft are pretty good at that ;)
also I wouldn't want Microsoft making something new with the toolbar, that'd be horrible!
They just took down the "check back later" message. Guess it will never be back then.
I can still get it through my school's MSDNAA when I take my first computer science course...
It's a shame that I have to run Windows on my laptop, and have to deal with all these business crap. Vista runs quite sluggish on my laptop and I want to give 7 a try. Or I can switch to XP or server 2008 I guess. They are making it very difficult.
I hate this chicken and egg problem with Linux. It doesn't have enough users so developers don't write programs for it, and because of that, users can't use Linux.
Looking forward to the day Linux breaks this barrier and marketshare shoots up (people start using, developers start developing, and more user start using...). Afterall, Firefox was in this position a while ago, too, and they broke it.