Who did you vote for, this poll is set to anonymous.
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Who did you vote for, this poll is set to anonymous.
This is the first time I've ever seen a third party candidate win...
Anonymous eh? Not so anonymous if I say Obama.
How do you them apples.
There is no way four out of ten people on this forum voted for Bob Barr or Ralph Nader. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by sean
I think this is vote manipulation at its worst.
Well, had I known 3rd party would get so many votes, I would have broken it down further.
If voting includes momentarily taking on super-human powers to sway the election by way of sheer will alone, despite the physical boundaries of space and national border, then I voted for Obama.
Otherwise, I'm merely sitting around watching CNN hoping that Americans, at least this time, make the right choice.
(p.s. anyone see Wolf refer to the "hologram" technology as if he could actually see her... lol what a douche)
Ditto.Quote:
Originally Posted by @nthony
I just saw it online. Her feet were missing, and an artifact to her left.Quote:
(p.s. anyone see Wolf refer to the "hologram" technology as if he could actually see her... lol what a douche)
Not the grandpa, and not the black dude.
I can't vote in America ;). Why did I post you ask? Because I exercise the same right as many Americans, by not voting ;)
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Oh well, looks like Obama won
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Anyone see one of the political pundits refer to Obama's campaign as the bazaar in "The Cathedral and The Bazaar"? Our secret plan to subconsciously embed the principles of software engineering into politics has hatched guys. Let the political hacking begin! Hail to the "wonk" speech (wth did he mean by that?).
Lets see how far downhill the USA can go in 4 years ;)
Seriously, from overseas it doesn't seem like there were any good candidates. And you ended up with Terry Wrist and McCain :)
I guess they get reaaally bad reception from over there... because unless you want Jesus H. Christ running for presidency himself, I don't know how much more "good" you're gonna get other than what just happened. Act now and we'll even throw in "historic", "competent" and "unifying" as a one-time bonus offer to the American people on this night exclusively. But I guess only time will tell...
America was oddly decisive this time.
Woot, my record is unbroken, every single president I have voted for has LOST, that's 6 in a row. Maybe next time I should wield my evil power, not that there will be a next time.
> Maybe next time I should wield my evil power
Please do :-)
If you keep the streak long enough Stephanopolis will interview you since you'd be a bell-weather voter.
Cheney endorsed McCain I cant believe he didn't win... I mean everybody loves Cheney.. except that guy he shot in the face >.<
Obama deserved to win... Havn't heard him talk, nor know what his intends are, but the started advertising in games! :O How cool is that? And he's the only president who isin't against rap and hip hop and all that :P
And if he is better than other presidents, and doesn't think himself as a king, sitting on his chair in his white... Fortress! Then maybe American rulers will start thinking about other things than power...? ;) that freedom fighting bull........ is a bit too brainwashed :P
Obama knows how to dress himself, I'll say that - he was even in Esquire's list of best dressed men...I myself was supporting McCain (better said - I was supporting Sarah Palin, I'm not a huge McCain fan either)- but I'm getting pretty sick of people freaking out... I live in a pretty conservative area and this morning everybody's like, "Oh no! What are we gonna do?!" and I'm like, "if you really think the world is about to end - you can buy a gun and a bunch of food and lock yourself in your house". Problem is, most of them can't buy guns because the majority of the housing business don't allow firearms on their premises here. So who's a bigger deal? Your landlord? Or your President? I don't hear people here make such a big deal about landlords they don't like...
I find that if you just don't even worry about it, everything's fine. I don't listen to the media much and I hang out with really dumb people (you can count on dumb people to not watch the news or listen to NPR). Since I can't vote anyway - it makes me a much happier person - politics is a messy business.
edit: I think McCain gave a very gracious losing-speech - I wish all my fellow McCain supporters in my town would follow suit...
For all I know, McCain wanted to continue the rubbish Iraq/Iran/some war :P one of those missiles costs thousands of dollars, and then people whine about where to get money for 'food for the hungry' stuff :P it's getting spent on useless stuff ;)
USA are on their way to rule the world... Dunno where the 'no one can rule the world' came from :P
Absolutely awesome night. An historical day and I'll definitely remember it for my lifetime.
It's not only the fact USA elected the first black American president. It's also because America did it just 40 years after the Memphis Speech which is definitely and irrevocably the best display of democratic maturity the American society shown to the rest of the world who (including me) started to doubt and openly criticize.
In fact, it's a major slap in the face of Europe who likes to criticize America for being openly racist when in fact we European are miles away. I wonder which European country would be ready to elect a black President or Prime Minister. It's almost ironic that we criticize America for the lack of something "we" don't want ourselves. In most countries in Europe where blacks are a significant minority of the population, there's not even one black man or woman in any important political seat or institution. In Portugal, blacks continue to be neo-segregated as they are in about every other country in Europe, most particularly France which is probably, along with Portugal, the two most embarrassing countries, considering their secular relationship with Africa.
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But the magic of this night was something else. It was not in American soil alone that this victory was celebrated. It was around the world. I truly felt for the first time in my life that a planetary president was being elected (a secret wish of mine that I won't probably see in my lifetime). In Europe, for the first time in history, a foreign country election process was being covered by every single country on national TV stations deep within the night. I myself was awake all the way till 6am, 1 hour after Obama's winning speech. I was glued to the TV set and my satellite remote flipping through foreign TV stations and is total amazement at was happening around the world. I couldn't believe it.
A small village in Kenya was partying at 7am, a foreign president called for an holiday, Brazillians partying on the beech, UK pubs ripping through the seams, New Zealand dancing on the streets,... it was... unique! The man had landed on the moon again? It's the New Year?
The looks of happiness from Japan, across Asia to Europe, Africa and South America was unthinkable. For that alone these elections were historical. But also a powerful message to Americans and the world. That we dare to hope again a more open and balanced America. A leader and not a despot hated by everyone else.
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Certainly not everybody was particularly happy. There's always the republicans, who understandably weren't particularly thrilled. But they should be. Or better yet, this is really their fault. Had they believed this particular man some years ago, and probably history had been written in completely different words.
McCainn deserved a better story. But it was republicans and the republican voter who made it sure that story would never be told. And they did this 4 years ago. I hope they learned the lesson...
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In any case, my sincere congratulations to all Americans around the world. It was a magical night, one for the books. Certainly I don't expect one man to change the world. But the world was changed even if for a single night. And a new era of relationship between USA and the rest of the world is just starting. Who knows what it will bring...
Oh come on... Europe wrote the book on hypocrisy. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario F.
No nation in my opinion is more racist than France. However, I did date a Ukrainian girl who was pretty racist... so I'd say I need some more extensive research before I render that verdict. In any case... racism is just one of the hypocritical arguments Europe makes against the USA. Especially when you consider that most white Americans are only one or two generations from being European ourselves. ... and US History classes show that as much racism from the early 20th century came from Europeans right off the boat as it did from the Protestants who founded the nation.
Anyway, good post, Mario.
All that aside... I have to say this. The election was somewhat bitter-sweet to me only knowing the fact that it was won in a manner that I did not wish it to be. Whether the right decision was made or not, the fact was that it was made by a greatly uninformed group of people for some of the most superficial reasons I've witnessed. This goes for Americans and non-Americans alike, who followed this election. ... and it goes for the ill-informed Democrats and Republicans alike. These elections still boil down to popularity and misinformation and ignorance... more that it did perhaps in the last election. I'm not saying Obama isn't the right choice... I'm just saying that he might not have been selected for all the right reasons. I dunno... that's just my take.
Well, about 2 -3 years ago it was legal to beat up and really torture blacks and homosexuals, in Faroe Iilands... But there was a law against being violent against humans :P also took awhile to get the new law in, 'cause some where against it :P
Like, back then blacks got their faces almost scratched off, without the ones doing it, getting any punishment :/
Well, it's also worse to kill a sheep here than to kill a human :P they havn't changed the old law, like really old, so killing a sheep gives a lifetime, killing a human gives 25 years, or is supposed to... Yes, we are a bit corrupt ;)
McCain was endorsed by the worst president in americn istory, thats why obama won, the dems could have run Nixon on their ticket ith Hitler as a runnig mate and still won.
Let's check out some conservative blogs and bask in schadenfruede.
First, some comments on RedState.com
Speaking of Obama...
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This freak is a illegal fundraising, ACRON vote stealing, gansta thug. He stole this thing and should be frog-marched from his slum-lord Rezko bought home. I wish him and his ilk nothing but to rot in a Kenyan jail. "They bring a knife, we bring a gun." Wake up you pansies, you've been took. This man deserves no respect and nothing but scorn. When the terrorists come, I only hope is agrees to meet with them unconditionally.
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This nation in effect sold its soul to Satan tonight, and forfeited any right it has to survival. There really is no longer an America, the only question is how long to we have before we lose all of our rights, something that is now inevitable.
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There will be enemies who attempt to take advantage of their new-found "friend" in the oval office.
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I have taken down my American flag which has flown continually since 9/11. My fellow Americans elected a president who is a muslim-prayer-chanting, baby-killing, domestic-terrorist-sympathizing, gay-rights-loving, America-hating, racist, marxist, liar, and snake.
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Our liberal public education system has been indoctrinating our kids for generations with the kind of vapid socialism that Obama preaches. What we saw tonight was the culmination of socialist teaching in our public education system finally paying off for the Democratic party. I don't see this trend changing any time soon.
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AMERICA COMMITED SUICIDE TONIGHT. PUTIN, CHAVEZ, CASTRO, HAMAS, IRAN ARE VERY HAPPY.
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The only real question is how long it will be before what we believe is criminalized and we are rounded up.
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NATION ELECTS FIRST AFFIRMATIVE ACTION BLACK PRESIDENT--we all know that Barack isn't qualified compared to the next dozen white guys (and Sarah Palin), but hey, what do you expect from black people?
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Obama Pwned us...
Speaking of McCain...
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You were among the amnesty supporters. It bit you on the butt. Good riddance to you.
He was your candidate, he fought for you. He gave you Palin, which was a bad ........ing choice but was exactly what you wanted. So show some ........ing respect, douche.
Now let's check Free Republic...
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Bring it on, God! America says you aint got nothin'! We'll keep killing babies in abortion mills. Hell, we'll vote for a president that supports killing babies who've already been born and drawn their first breaths. How dare those little punks selfishly try to survive and force their mommas to "revisit their decision" to kill their babies in the first place. Nothing worse than a kid who doesn't know his or her place - especially when that place is to die. That bother you, God? Tough!
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Tens of millions of people sold their souls for silver.
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At this point, only a revolution ala 1776 can restore America, but we know that won’t happen (we long ago lost the spirit that created this once-great country). So I say bring on the asteroid, the genetically-engineered doomsday plague, or the terrorists’ nuclear Pearl Harbor. Who cares any more?
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Thanks alot [W. Bush] you traitor! You aided this commie Obama with your bullsh!t about bailing out Wall Street. Now you kiss his a$$ just like kissed Pelosi's a$$ when the Dems. punked you in 2006.
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Any takers on when we'll have to take up arms against the regime? Or against another regime? All this talk about politics is a waste of time people. We past that point years ago. It's fight or flight time, and by "fight" I don't mean going to a ballot box that won't be there.
Expect a visit from the Secret Service...
Now let's look at what Pam, the crazy Objectivist at Atlas Shrug, has to say...
Ok ... don't forget to wear your tin foil hat! Electing anyone with darker skin than a tan seems to have caused a crapstorm, and conservative blogs are imploding on themselves.Quote:
But we are a long way from surrender. The battle is over, the war begins. The United States government now falls into the hands of the enemies of this country and civilization for a time or forever. And that is part of what the war is about. The country has been in the hands of people we disagreed with, but never in the hands of people whose views are as diametrically opposed to ours as anything in the Third Reich or the Kremlin.
For my own part I do not recognize Obama as my President, nor will I refer to him as such. He has no legal right to serve in office nor has he won a legal election.
>> Anyway, good post, Mario.
I agree.
This was an historic election because collectively the American voters judged Obama not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character.
And make no mistake, the content of his character is why he won the election. There were many instances where American voters made up their minds on both sides for other reasons - reasons that you might not consider to be pertinent to a person's ability to govern and reasons stemming from the luck of running against the party of one of the wort Presidents ever - but the huge level of support he garnered was rooted in his temperament, his principles and his ideas. America and the world are not only celebrating because a black man has won the United States presidency, but because there is hope that a great man has won the United States presidency.
Those words you said about Obama, citizen, where a bit racist :P even tho he's black doesn't mean he's a gangster or any of that :P and if he did any such thing, doesn't mean he can't change ;)
But if you want America's military to grow and take over the world, Obama is not the one for that... If he keeps his words, which were to take the military back home, right?
Read again, these are not things I've said, but things other people have posted on the Internet without any shame. And they're voters. *shudder*
Akkernight, note that citizen was quoting other people.
Now are we including African genocide in this? After all, it would be racist not to! ;)Quote:
No nation in my opinion is more racist than France
These are the people I was talking about. Conservatives supported McCain because they believed his ideals would be the ones to best enable them to live their life with the wife and kids, and raise a family. Right? Well if we lost the election, getting everybody up in arms ISN'T going to help anybody raise their kids and live their life. Am I wrong? People just need to relax...Quote:
Any takers on when we'll have to take up arms against the regime?
Sure.... :P I understood you as agreeing with them, sorry
There seems to be a lot of people who don't like Obama. Do you think he'll have the same fate as John F Kennedy?
You should have voted for Obama!Quote:
Originally Posted by abachler
Did any of you guys listen to the prank phone call to Sarah Palin? SO FUNNY!!! My social studies teacher, who hates her guts, played it for us in class.
I honestly considered doing that for just this reason, but 6 in a row is highly unlikely, so the possibility of the trend reversing seemed high. In the end I determined that if there is some conspiracy to not elect anyione I vote for, then no matter how bad things get it wont be my fault, at least I have done what I can to turn things around, which includes a lot more than just voting. I am not in a position to make very many decisions that can effect the world, so ultimately there is little I can do other than impede the progress of those who are making the poor decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by lruc
To me the victory is just symbolic of the change in America. Politically for me it really does not represent much. From a poltiical standpoint I probably would feel the same if McCain had won. Both candidates ran campaigns that were not completely along their party lines. Obama was more left-center to center and McCain was definitely right-center to center. The distinctions between them were not that great and they both were not the typical conservative or liberal candidates. I was and still am a bit skeptical of both of them and no matter my political preference the next President has his work cut out for him. It will not be easy and it will be a long hard painful recovery.
I was taken by the fact that 22% considered themselves Dems and about 23% considered themselves Repubs. 44% of Americans consider themselves moderates. This tells me that the nation is not as polarized as we have been told. I think Obama won because he moved towards center faster and more publicly than did McCain. McCain had to shake off the Bush mold and just could not separate himself enough from a very unpopular president. I feel that soon the political climate will be ripe enough that a third moderate party may be able to make a significant running. It would be some time before a win but a move towards the center seems to be quite inviting to a great deal of the country.
If Obama moves far left as did the Dems in late 80's and early 90's when they had similar numbers as they do now he will make a grave mistake that will dearly cost the Dems. The Repubs have done exactly what the Dems did in that they have moved so far right as to be irrelevant and out of touch with the American people. I normally agree with some of what I hear on conservative talk radio, however, this morning I heard a great deal of whining and very negative rhetoric that was uncalled for. Funny thing is I heard the same exact type of whining from the Dems when Bush won. Both parties practice the same negative politics and both are at fault for the state of the nation.
In short it's time for a new party that doesn't have the Dems or Repub label or the conservative or liberal label. It is very clear from the numbers that regardless of conservative or liberal the American people will vote for who they believe will bring in change. Whether they are ill-informed or not is a completely different question and I, too, believe that most are. I think people voted for Obama because they think he is that change. Time will tell if he is or if he succumbs to the pressures of Washington and becomes just another run of the mill President.
But while last night was not a political victory for all involved I do believe it was a victory for America as a whole. We proved that we do not care about the color of your skin or your ethnic origins. Obama, to me, proves that while racism and bigotry is not completely absent in American society, America has come a very long way in a very short time. Obama will definitely be a different face for America and I cannot wait until he is greeted face to face by foreign nations for the first time. I hope other nations can truly see that we Americans are not identified by our race, color, religous beliefs, ethnic origins, sexual preferences, etc. We are identified by and united in a common belief that all of mankind is created equal and that all of mankind deserves the same liberties, rights and freedoms.
America is not perfect or without her flaws. But I must say that last night I was quite proud of her. History has been made and I'm glad I was able to experience it. So many generations before me fought hard for equal rights and never lived to see it come to fruition. Hopefully last night those who have passed on and fought so hard and even died for what they believed in were able to look down from above and finally be proud to be called an American. What I saw last night is the America that my grandfather fought for long ago on the shores of Tinian, the America that my uncles fought for in Vietnam, the America that my cousins fought for in Desert Storm, and the America that some of my friends are still fighting for in Iraq.
I'd agree with that. One of the things I can't stand about politics is when people pull the minority card when it isn't valid, and one person that definitely does that is Jessie Jackson. I think the fact that he's so ridiculous makes it harder the people who are REALLY being discriminated against. When Jessie Jackson actually stopped supporting Obama, I'm pretty sure it was because he realized that having a black president would signal the end of an era.Quote:
But while last night was not a political victory for all involved I do believe it was a victory for America as a whole.
I'm not saying there isn't racism - but I'm definitely saying you're right - it changes the way our mind works.
While I agree on what you say Bubba, I just don't believe America fought for itself in Vietnam or does in Iraq. I'm sorry, but this is part of what separates America and Americans perception of the world with the rest of the world. I don't deny the historical importance of the Vietnam War. But I deny the notion America was defending itself or defining itself in the Vietnam War.
In any case, you are absolutely right to be damn proud of your country. And it's not really Obama's victory that defined this moment. That's the cherry on the top. For the past year and right after Hillary stepped down, the whole campaign around Obama proved this much. He didn't have to win last night for America to have once again proven to the world that their democratic values should be an inspiration to the rest of the world. Naturally, had he not win, the most skeptic and critic would see that as a sign of weakness in the American society. I certainly wouldn't.
In fact for the past 6 months more or less sometimes I even wished I was American, so that I could share that pride. A feeling that my own country has been denying me for a couple of decades already.
McCain was to me a good surprise too. For the better part of this year I looked at him just as another republican. A conservative hawk tied to the party machine like a puppet on a string saying the same old tiresome right-wing lines, capitalizing on fear and national pride to win the election. A behavior I despise. But while my perception wasn't entirely unfounded, it was also partially untrue.
Some 5 months ago, a Portuguese political analyst I tend to admire, was commenting on McCain and revealed some interesting facts about this man and his personality I didn't know of. That spurred my interest in knowing more about him and by the end of this election I was admiring him and, like you, I'm pretty sure America would also be well served had he won. However, Palin was another matter. I can only imagine the type of America we would have had McCain won the elections and... bear with me... died, leaving her in office. Good grief!
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I'm interesting on things to come too. I can only imagine the type of war that is about to be fought inside the Democratic party for a place in Obama's entourage that will constitute his government. If there is one thing that this man shown to me is that he knows how to surround himself with the right people. So I'm hoping to not see the Clinton clan anywhere near, neither the democratic orthodox like Albright and friends... I'm hoping too he has the good sense to look in the Republican party, particularly McCain. Both men conveyed a certain interest in working together in their speeches last night. I would like to see that.
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On a last racial note... you know folks, it kinda ........ed me off seeing Jesse Jackson crying amidst the crowd. I don't know what he was doing. Was it tears of joy? Doubtful considering he's part of the black hardliners that have constantly based their campaigns on black victimization and racial prejudice towards whites and were never supporters of Obama. Maybe tears of remorse. Maybe both. I'm hoping this whole black wing in American society dies with Obama win last night and the realization it's American society, and not the black community that needs to be served.
>> you know folks, it kinda ........ed me off seeing Jesse Jackson crying amidst the crowd. I don't know what he was doing. Was it tears of joy? <<
Absolutely it was tears of joy (and maybe a little relief, too). Many people cried when the moment finally came. Oprah was crying in the crowd. Colin Powell admitted that he and his whole family cried. It wasn't just black folks either. Jon Stewart cried. I cried. My wife cried.
That moment was a huge event for Americans and black Americans in particular. Jesse Jackson was a civil rights leader. He actually fought not so long ago just to give blacks the ability to cast their votes in the election, and to this day he still fights for racial equality in this country. Racial equality has been his life's work, and here he was watching a black family walk up on stage to be introduced to the world as the first family of our country. Heck, I get emotional just typing it out. This is an amazing thing.
Perhaps you consider him a hardliner that bases his "campaigns" on victimization and prejudice towards whites. Personally I don't recall that being the case for Jackson, but perhaps I'm wrong. Whatever his tactics or beliefs, it is obvious that his goal has not been to make African Americans the supreme race, but rather to get them on equal footing. That is still not the case, as it took an extraordinary person to break this seemingly impossible barrier. But we are symbolically at least a heck of a lot closer. Jackson knows that, Oprah knows that. Jon Stewart knows that. That's why we cried.
Many people around here (New York and New Jersey... and we see a lot of him) consider Jesse Jackson a joke because like many people who run campaigns such as his (not just for Black civil rights, but leaders of women rights and gay rights, among others) tend to profit more from the "fight" than those who they're fighting for. It's just hard to watch a guy who you've just donated some of your personal saving to drive off in a $90,000 Jaguar in an $8,000 Armani suit. He's also shown a fair amount of hypocrisy between his preachings and personal life and he's shown an equal amount of "flip-flopping" between his views when speaking to his "Southern Baptist" base and his urban base. This is not to go against the cause or those who choose to lead the stand against injustice... but Jesse Jackson is nothing more than a good voice when it comes to the civil liberties fight. He speaks well... presents himself well... but there are many out there that fight the same fight without taking such a large cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daved
Jesse Jackson had a long history of devotion to his cause with little to no reward and he's a great man for that... then he got a little older and started to get a little greedy. Now it's hard to criticize his current actions because of all the time he's spent to the cause. That's what I've seen.
That said... Jesse Jackson is a world better than Al Sharpton.
I don't disagree with what you say, and I don't intend to defend Jackson (or criticize him) here. I honestly don't know enough about his current or historical actions to do so. My belief is that the situation is a lot more complex than implied by the last part of Mario's last post. And I do know enough, IMO, to feel pretty confident that those tears were genuine.
I don't either... but I believe all Americans who supported Barack Obama should support him for his views and presence and not for the color of his skin. The whole reason it's great that we have a black president is because it's supposed to project the image that we can look beyond skin color. The question that I pose with Jesse Jackson is... why did his support him? I mean, after all, there are several direct (and highly inappropriate) criticisms that Jesse Jackson has said of Barack Obama including but not limited to, "acting like he's white" and "I want to cut his nuts off."Quote:
Originally Posted by Daved
My personal feeling is that Jesse Jackson would have supported Obama whether he agreed with most of his views or not. Hopefully, this is unlike most of the Americans that got out to vote for him, today. I think Obama is a smart man who can do good things... I don't agree with him on every turn but I believe he is a man of the people and is willing to keep his ears open to the citizens' voice.
I agree with you SlyMaelstrom. Jesse Jackson was probably crying because he's black. You know what though.. some of those blacks deserve resolve for what they have been put through. There has most definitely been a bias in the past. This is a clean slate, proving we are all equal to those who suffered injustice and most importantly, those who caused that injustice. I've never had to live thinking I might not be accepted because of the color of my skin. Blacks won't have to now either. Hopefully from now on people can look beyond skin color.
>> I believe all Americans who supported Barack Obama should support him for his views and presence and not for the color of his skin. <<
There is a difference between supporting a candidate (e.g. voting for, donating to, campaigning for) and appreciating the significance of a person belonging to a racial minority being elected to the presidency.
I'm sure the emotion was due to a combination of those things, but one doesn't require the other.
Besides, I'm surprised you think those comments should put into question Jackson's support. Has Jackson ever supported a non-Democrat? Just because he's critical doesn't make him a fraud or someone whose support is solely based on race.
In fact, as I said earlier, I think the country's reasons for voting in Obama were not based on the color of his skin, but rather the content of his character. There's no way white America would vote for a black man unless he was (overly) qualified. And while I'm certain there were a lot of blacks who voted for Obama because of his skin color, I don't see that as such a big deal. Polls showed black voters were hesitant to vote for Obama until after he won mostly-white Iowa. And of course blacks vote democrat all the time anyway.
If Colin Powell had run as a Republican, or Condoleezza Rice, then I'm sure you'd see a lot of people voting against their views and based on color. In this case, though, I think those people were already voting Democrat anyway so they didn't have to make that decision.
>> This is a clean slate, proving we are all equal to those who suffered injustice and most importantly, those who caused that injustice. <<
I disagree. This is not a clean slate, and equality is not here. It is merely a huge step in that direction.
Yes, its obvious that its white mans fault that blacks are so under-privileged, because they are so successful in countries where they are the majority like the Sudan, Ethiopia, Congo, etc.
Slavery ended 143 years ago, there are no blacks alive today that were born to children of slaves. Life is tough for everyone, blacks arent anything special and do not deserve special treatment.
If you think they do then I want every person who doesnt have native american ancestry to get off our continent.
BTW, Obama is only 1/8 black, and 3/8 Muslim, so the only way he can claim to be black is if you follow the one drop rule.
"Muslim" is a religion. "Black" is a race. How can you be 3/8 of a religion?
Also, how is the accuracy of his claim to be black relevant to this discussion? It's apparently not relevant to the blacks who voted for him. It doesn't diminish the historic nature of his election. So you mention it because... ?
Finally, it doesn't take much logic to conceive how a people can continue to be oppressed despite the enactment of laws attempting to guarantee equal rights. You realize that 1964 was nearly 100 years after slavery, and yet I doubt you'd say that things were equal in America at that time. So why would the fact that slavery ended 143 years ago mean something different?
The bottom line is that a large portion of African Americans today feel that they do not live on a level playing field. Debating the accuracy of that feeling might be best left to another time, but it won't change the fact that those feelings are a big part of why Obama's election is a big deal.
I doubt that there are many still alive, but are you sure that there are NONE:
--Quote:
Originally Posted by abachler
Mats
> "Muslim" is a religion. "Black" is a race. How can you be 3/8 of a religion?
It's a cult. Big difference :-)
And that's not being racist, since you just said -- it's not a race!
Have you ever considered that students (be it Uni or otherwise) do not live on a level playing field? The poorest post-code in my state is in-fact my University. What's my point? The world isn't level, get over it.
It may be possible that some newborn infant who was technicalyl a slave has grandchildren living in a nursing home today, which is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by matsp
Is that because the people who live there are students -> no real income (yet)?Quote:
Originally Posted by zacs7
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Mats
Yes. But that still doesn't change the fact that it is. There's almost 0 government input (on that side), they do pay a portion of Uni fees for local undergraduate students. It's mainly because of debt and income, income is very low (poor part time jobs or placements) and debt is very high ($100,000 + for Med students).
Instead the government give free houses to the immigrants and cash payments -- WTF! I know that the UK has/is largely being messed up by immigrants.
Back to the topic at hand...
So, if it's not relevant, why did you bring it up? I'm just pointing out that you are making assumptions and presenting them as facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by abachler
When you say "3/8" Muslim, do you mean to say that he's partly practicing Christian, and partly practicing Islam, or that he's of Christian belief but has a father who is practicing Islam? As far as I know, most faiths are a "all or nothing" - you are either a believer/practitioner of that religion, or you are not - you are not allowed to "mix" your religion.
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Mats
Hah! Bringing religion and belives into a forum, always ends bad :P
Yup, I'm one of them - ok, so I'm White, relatively well educated, own my own house (well, at least the small part that the Bank isn't holding in exchange for the mortgage), but I'm still technically not British.Quote:
Originally Posted by zacs7
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Mats
I haven't been to the UK for 5 years. But based on statistics, I'd say it's pretty messed up. That includes large numbers of British families leaving, and twice as many immigrants taking their places.
At least Obama is offering health-care for everyone, which has never been (as far as I know).
What places exactly? And how do you exactly correlate in-migration with out-migration? Finally what makes you think UK is messed up?Quote:
Originally Posted by zacs7
The fact that it is still a major economical power in Europe and in the world, strikes you as messed up? The fact that despite all the problems that do still exist, is just after Netherlands (and possibly Norway?) the country in Europe where racial prejudice is less observed, strikes you as messed up?
I'm positively at awe how we can still have this type of conversation on the 21st century. Particularly when country after country has been built on immigration labor and it's all part of our history books, right there for anyone to study. Australia being one fine example. Your country Zacs. Don't get me started on Australia in-migration history and its importance to the building of that fine nation...
People always migrated, and locals were always pretty much territorial. And yet, after tenths of thousands of years I'm still yet to see any evidence of a civilization, empire or nation being messed up because of its immigrants. Quiet the contrary.
From a purely political standpoint you are correct and I would agree. However from a military standpoint when you go to fight you it does not matter the political issues behind it. That is for the suits in Washington and worrying about things you cannot control whilst in a combat zone is sure to get you killed. So from the standpoints of the soldiers they were told to go here or there and take this objective or that. In that sense they were fighting for America regardless of the actual underlying political issues. They did their job and they did what they were told. No man can be faulted for sacrificing his dreams, pursuits, and sometimes his life to fight a war they don't understand, may not support, and has little control over. When they say go you go and you do so for no other reason than it's your job. Politicians are the ones who make war - the soldiers are the ones who execute it. I have no love loss for politicians but I salute the men and women who put their lives on the line or leave their families for months at a time simply because they are told to do so. All heroes.Quote:
While I agree on what you say Bubba, I just don't believe America fought for itself in Vietnam or does in Iraq.
Well, one of the comments was blatantly racist and the other was just offensive. ... and I took that "nuts" comment out of context. He was in fact talking about how Obama was voicing his support for the majority and not his "fellow black men." Clearly the man dedicates himself to getting the African-American support regardless of what politicians that he claims to support might think... And it's not a matter of Democrat or Republican with him. With him, if a black man with power, be it a Democrat or Republican, doesn't use his power to support an Affirmative-Action cause in all issues that come to their attention... then they are not supporting their people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daved
This is why I don't respect Jesse Jackson... it's why I respect men like Barack Obama or Clarence Thomas. They've risen above their race and can pass judgement to the benefit of all humanity and not just a sect that they consider "their people." I like to think that I, as a white guy, am one of Barack Obama's people... I know however, that in Jesse Jackson's mind... I will never be one of his people.
That's pretty much my reading of Jesse Jackson history too. With the good reverend there has always been a racial political agenda that goes beyond civil rights and sometimes even brushes the most basic forms of racism.
The man hardly ever earned my respect throughout his activist and political career. The reason he was crying certainly had a lot to do with the fact Obama was black. But it annoyed me profoundly exactly because I don't forget the type of "support" the good reverend gave Obama.
I don't disagree with the notion that Jackson has bordered on racist himself in his crusade for justice for African-Americans. I don't think you have an accurate understanding of his support for the campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/...ckson.comment/
Notice that Jackson said he felt "very distressed because I'm supportive of this campaign and with the senator." His son was even a co-chair of the campaign.
I can totally accept a skepticism towards his methods, I just don't understand how his reaction to the moment could be annoying in and of itself.
That was a highly unintelligible post from someone who I consider should know better. Slavery doesn't just end with all parties being equal. There may be no children alive today born slaves, but how many baby-boomers are still alive who were on the receiving end of a fire hose (or how many more who are not because they were on the receiving end of something much worse?). And how many are alive today, who remain indoctrinated, but silently-so, from a supremacist upbringing (or even much milder, subtle bias)?Quote:
Originally Posted by abachler
As for your racial breakdown, it is so ludicrous and wrought with ignorance (Muslim is a racial designation now???), that I won't touch it further.
Race and racism is more than just historical: it is a dynamic that exists within the population today, manifesting itself in many subtle and not-so-subtle ways. This election proved that, for the most part, the majority of American people are beginning to resist its effects. Your sentiments are a step-backwards from that achievement, and though I know they exist in far too many of the uninformed, I can only naively hope they are ephemeral within you and willing to consider your's a one-off post illustrating why religion and politics often bring out the worst in most.
Sometimes one must play devil's advocate to get the real issue out in the open ;) The simple fact is that nothing will ever be enough, some people will always claim that there is residual oppression/rascism. It's time to move on, and that includes blacks.
http://superobamaworld.com/ Shows that Obama is the win ^^
Will Americans ever get enough of this Cold War style propaganda? All the posters, dumb jokes, games - it only shows that the authors are too damn stupid to come up with some constructive criticism. Some people consider it funny... I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkernight
Prooves isn't even a word, homie.
Perhaps you'd feel more comfortable conversing with him in Danish?Quote:
Originally Posted by master5001
How did you know I can Danish? :O Did you hack my PC or something?
Faroe Islands?
What!? How do you people know this!!? I'm getting scared... >.<
We hacked your computer and took all your moneys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkernight
Hah! My card has been suspended, so you can't take my money!! :P
Dude, shut up. It's just a platformer game, and it's kinda awesome. I had fun...Quote:
Originally Posted by maxorator
Took me ages to complete the first level :P Those money men kept on killing me, they walk fast :P
No hacking today. Just observational skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by User panel
Oh... Oh... Forgot I typed that in.. I feel stupid now >.<
I agree, that game is not that bad. But there's a lot of other nasty stuff out there and this just reminded me of that...Quote:
Originally Posted by citizen
wasn't obama the name of the beach we stormed on d-day? yes, i'm just being cute, so you can all go to hell.
No, that one was named Osama. m-)Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMcGee123
Actually, I've been to Omaha (and Dunkerque too), and the name is obviously made by someone with an irony sense of humour, as Omaha is about as far inland as you can get in North America (no, it's not quite at the geometric centre of the mainland North America) - but there's certainly a great lack of big oceans nearby.
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Mats
Are you saying that the Allies never stormed Omaha beach o.O?
No, I'm saying they stormed the beach "Codename Omaha", but the irony of that name is that there's nothing even closely resembling a beach in Omaha (ok, so the Missouri river runs pst, but it's hardly a huge river at that point either).Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkernight
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Mats
They attacked Germany or something, why are you talking about Missouri?