Thread: Could Windows suck any more than it does?

  1. #46
    Lurking whiteflags's Avatar
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    That's the same thing as what docks do.

  2. #47
    Make Fortran great again
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    @Yarin: tend to agree with you about Elysia after the "Linux isn't going to gain traction until they implement a proper GUI and software (graphical) applications to support it. You're not going to get casual users over to Linux if it takes editing configuration files and typing stuff in a terminal to get things done." comment. Last thing I had to edit a file for was to do some advanced settings for PulseAudio, and to get monospace text in SciTE, which normal people don't need to do. I wanted to do some audiophilish stuff.

    @Elysia: one of the reasons I like Lubuntu so much is they decided to have the GUI like Windows' default ("start" button in lower left, status/resident programs in lower right), and they copied a lot of Windows' shortcuts as well, such as Win+e for file explorer, Win+d to minimize windows, etc.

    ------------

    A lot of progress has been made in the last 5 years or so. I've recently installed/used Ubuntu derivatives on:
    1) old Dell Dimension 3000 desktop
    2) newer Dell Precision T3500 workstation
    3) old ASUS Eee PC 1000HA netbook
    4) old Dell Inspiron 1500 laptop (before it died)
    5) newest of the bunch: Lenovo Thinkpad W520
    6) newer Acer Aspire X3950 desktop (before it died too)

    All keyboards/mice/audio/network/wifi/video worked out of the box (keep in mind, talking about recent within the last year or so, before that there were issues with some). Everything with dedicated graphics (mix of AMD and NVIDIA) had either an open-source or proprietary driver available through settings -> additional drivers. I even got a USB gaming headset to work out of the box, and recently (within the last month here) the Steam client was fixed to work with USB mics.

    I can also use my Galaxy Note II phone as a mass storage device out of the box as well. And my GoPro.

  3. #48
    Make Fortran great again
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    I said grouping, but then I realized that's the wrong for what I actually meant. Sorry about that. I actually meant these small icons that you see in 7+, not the big rectangles that you see in Vista and before.
    I've never seen a desktop that provides such a feature or if there is one, then I've found no setting that actives such a behavior.
    To echo Yarin: KDE has a reputation as the Rolls Royce of desktop environments; I would be seriously surprised if it can't do at least close to what you want.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    That's the same thing as what docks do.
    From your description, the only dock that comes to mind is Ubuntu which I've tried, and I can't say I'm a fan of it.

    But that's another thing - Linux is so customizable, and there are so many distros out there, so unless one is willing to go out there and look and try everything, you're usually not going to find Windows-like experience out-of-the-box.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  5. #50
    Registered User MutantJohn's Avatar
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    Is this a bad time to mention that I got my copy of Windows 10 last night? Assuming none of my other computer parts are dead on arrival, I'll be playing FF XV with a GTX 1060!!!!!

  6. #51
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    Windows 10 is so horrible in so many ways -_-
    And I've never been less excited about a new FF game than FF15. Worst. FF. Game. Ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  7. #52
    Registered User MutantJohn's Avatar
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    But... It's like you get to play as the Goo Goo Dolls! (Note this is a joke about how silly the hair styles are).

    I tried the demo and it wasn't too bad. I'm still gonna probably get it for the PS4. If anything, my CUDA development is going to me amazing now. I'm gonna cudaMalloc a billion ints just because I can.

  8. #53
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MutantJohn View Post
    Sunday morning, normal `pacman -Syu` and then boom, invalid configuration written to a kernel-critical file that killed my Gnome shell.
    Something similar happened very recently. After 3 months of not updating I did the mistake of running a -Syyu. Kaput!
    The thing with Linux though (and the most valuable lesson I will take from my years with Arch) is that other than an hardware failure, there is simply no way you can't recover a Linux installation. You can reinstall sure. And sometimes you do it just because you can't be bothered. But you don't have to, if you don't want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    That's the same thing as what docks do.
    More importantly, why do we even care if Linux does not take every random little feature of Windows?
    If I decide my operating system based on whether it groups opened application icons, I'm using my computer wrong. Same goes for Start Menu features. Nice additions are nice additions. But they are only a motivational standard for the simple-minded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    In fact, in the ideal world, IMO, we should have both a GUI and a CLI because some people find GUIs easier and some find CLI easier.
    Well, Linux is your perfect world then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    But from my experience, what I said is still relevant.
    Elysia, there's no "my experience" in using an operating system for less than two days or watching videos on youtube. Those activities aren't relevant in the construction of an opinion. You won't accept the claim of someone saying they know how to program in C++ after they wrote the hello world application on page 1 of the book. Ignorance is one of the greatest qualities anyone can have. Is the path to learning. Any ignorant is ok in my book. I'm ignorant about many things. Whereas an idiot is an ignorant with opinions.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 11-02-2016 at 06:12 PM.
    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  9. #54
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    Well, it's clear I don't have enough experience to talk about Linux, so I'm just going to exit myself from this discussion. Everyone criticizes me, so I should take that as a hint that I don't know what I'm talking about.

    But I'll just leave a few notes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    More importantly, why do we even care if Linux does not take every random little feature of Windows?
    If I decide my operating system based on whether it groups opened application icons, I'm using my computer wrong. Same goes for Start Menu features. Nice additions are nice additions. But they are only a motivational standard for the simple-minded.
    Because I've tested with and without (Linux) and to me, with is just more preferable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Elysia, there's no "my experience" in using an operating system for less than two days or watching videos on youtube. Those activities aren't relevant in the construction of an opinion. You won't accept the claim of someone saying they know how to program in C++ after they wrote the hello world application on page 1 of the book. Ignorance is one of the greatest qualities anyone can have. Is the path to learning. Any ignorant is ok in my book. I'm ignorant about many things. Whereas an idiot is an ignorant with opinions.
    Just for the record, my experience with Linux isn't limited to "watching two days of videos on youtube." It's hands-on experience with several distros for real work. Not a main OS. No. As a virtual machine mostly for compiling stuff.
    Last edited by Elysia; 11-02-2016 at 09:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  10. #55
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia
    Just for the record, my experience with Linux isn't limited to "watching two days of videos on youtube." It's hands-on experience with several distros for real work. Not a main OS. No. As a virtual machine mostly for compiling stuff.
    Mostly for compiling stuff? I wonder if that is why you found yourself using the command line at times where most of the non-technical or non-power users around us can typically do very well with GUI-only on modern newbie-friendly Linux distros.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarne Stroustrup (2000-10-14)
    I get maybe two dozen requests for help with some sort of programming or design problem every day. Most have more sense than to send me hundreds of lines of code. If they do, I ask them to find the smallest example that exhibits the problem and send me that. Mostly, they then find the error themselves. "Finding the smallest program that demonstrates the error" is a powerful debugging tool.
    Look up a C++ Reference and learn How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

  11. #56
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    Yeah, compiling stuff because y'know, everyone thinks they should make libraries for Linux instead of both Linux/Windows. Some companies also think they should put synthesis tools on Linux instead of Windows. Another reason I've used Linux.

    It also typically involves downloading archives and unpacking them. And that, in my limited experience, tend to be a pain too since few file managers tend be "good" in my experience, compared to what I'm used to on Windows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Yeah, compiling stuff because y'know, everyone thinks they should make libraries for Linux instead of both Linux/Windows. Some companies also think they should put synthesis tools on Linux instead of Windows. Another reason I've used Linux.

    It also typically involves downloading archives and unpacking them. And that, in my limited experience, tend to be a pain too since few file managers tend be "good" in my experience, compared to what I'm used to on Windows.
    Kind of like everyone thinks they should only make applications for Windows instead of both Linux/Windows? To be fair though, kudos to the companies who have gone cross-platform. MathWorks, for one, has a Linux version of MATLAB.

    Regarding archive extraction: File Roller is good but can be annoying because you might have to install the supporting unpacking application (for example, p7zip for 7z) depending on what kind of archive you're working with. Most distros come with all the common ones pre-installed now though.

  13. #58
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    everyone thinks they should make libraries for Linux instead of both Linux/Windows.
    There's nothing to discuss here. You don't want to acknowledge the tremendous and much larger amount of software that is being done windows-exclusive, or you'll dismiss it "companies have costs", while at the same time you charge Linux developers working on their free time as not being responsible enough to cater to your windows needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    few file managers tend be "good" in my experience, compared to what I'm used to on Windows.
    The reason why I dislike talking with about Linux with you is exactly on how easily you throw the word "experience" around. It's meaning completely lost to you. And your constant refusal to admit that you don't hold sufficient knowledge to trade blows on equal terms with those arguing with you. People working with both operating systems on a professional or hobbyist capacity for years have a lot to teach you. And yet you refuse it on a continuous basis, probably because you confuse teaching with indoctrination. Very likely you fear both. I tried to warn you about the differences between an ignorant and an idiot. But I think that flew over your head.

    Most people will simply ignore you, or quickly address any finer points and move on, largely uncaring of your unfounded opinions. I can't because of my stupid weaknesses; my desire for confrontation and a profound distaste for human idiocy, that I can't seem to be able to shake of and that I consider one of the roots of all that is wrong about humanity. But rest assured, seemingly contrary to you, I care about my flaws and my weaknesses. It wouldn't take me so long to adopt the position of so many other people concerning your opinions if I weren't an even bigger idiot than you.
    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  14. #59
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    Hi Mario F., you jerk.

    Apparently the meaning of experience is lost on you, as well. My experience differs from others, and I can only draw conclusions from my own experience. It's not like your experience sits in my head.

    I already admitted: I don't know enough about Linux to argue. People could probably teach me a lot, this has dawned of me. Really. But I'm not going to argue, because it leads nowhere except people like you complaining that I'm ignorant, my experience means nothing, and that the way I like to live and do things is "stupid", and so on. Well, screw you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  15. #60
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia
    Yeah, compiling stuff because y'know, everyone thinks they should make libraries for Linux instead of both Linux/Windows. Some companies also think they should put synthesis tools on Linux instead of Windows. Another reason I've used Linux.
    This is awesome. Elysia was forced to use Linux because some software Elysia wanted or needed was not available or was a second class citizen on Windows. Keep up the good work, friends. This is the right strategy as it obviously works with Elysia, just like it obviously works with me as I have been forced to use Windows because some software I want or need is not available or is a second-class citizen on Linux.

    Of course, it would be great if you supported both Linux and Windows. Yes, I am talking to you Windows-only software developers.

    On a more serious note, clearly greater platform support is an overall win, but to say that "everyone thinks they should make libraries for Linux instead of both Linux/Windows" is unfair criticism, when likewise one can unfairly claim that "everyone thinks they should make games for Windows instead of both Linux/Windows", or some other similiar statement.
    Last edited by laserlight; 11-03-2016 at 05:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarne Stroustrup (2000-10-14)
    I get maybe two dozen requests for help with some sort of programming or design problem every day. Most have more sense than to send me hundreds of lines of code. If they do, I ask them to find the smallest example that exhibits the problem and send me that. Mostly, they then find the error themselves. "Finding the smallest program that demonstrates the error" is a powerful debugging tool.
    Look up a C++ Reference and learn How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

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