Thread: Is There a Language I Would Love More than C++?

  1. #16
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I've come to a point in my career that had me rephrasing a whole bunch of things that I took for granted. This means that if I were to put that same question to myself, it would have been changed to "Is there anything that I hate less than C++?"

    As you probably remember, I think that programming just plain sucks. But it is true that C++ is an elegant and pretty language to look at. It's easy to fall in love with it, as I once did. There was a time when I too thought C++ would become my de facto programming tool to the exclusion of anything else. But the fact is that C++ clashed with my career in a big way. It's lack of a principled GUI library (for the obvious reasons, of course) was its downfall. I could never bring it successfully to my jobs as a plus on my resume. And the market always demanded more for Windows-based business oriented software, forcing me to stay on its path. And then the .Net/C# combination happened and that just buried C++ for good as a viable desktop programming tool. I eventually sidelined C++ to an hobby. But the problem with that is my character switches hobbies as someone changes a shirt. The only exception being gardening. And so, if I were to program C++ today, I would have to go back to reading books and tutorials off the web.

    And so, what I am saying is that liking it has got nothing to do with it. Be prepared for a change and keep studying all those other languages you have been). C++ may be conceptually pretty, but the matter of fact is that you will require these days to enter a specific job market to make use of it. And there's currently a very low demand for it. Which makes C++ pretty on the inside, but frankly ugly on the outside.

    If you do want to remain faithful to it and pursue a career on it, then I suggest a CS course (not a SE one) and be sure you do it on a respectful university. No girlfriends during that time and friends can wait also. Get the best possible marks. Then, you might get a chance at the growingly restrict professional C++ market.

    I still like C++ structurally. I think that is a well designed language, notwithstanding some criticism. But honestly the language has much less professional value these days, no matter what those language ranks try to tell you. Liking it is only going to be a distraction in your life if you can contain that feeling.
    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  2. #17
    Registered User MutantJohn's Avatar
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    I'm not shocked that C++ lacks a good GUI library. And I don't even think it has a standard library for event handling as well. Working with JS has definitely piqued my interest in event-driven programming and how events in general _actually_ work all the way up from the hardware to the interrupt handlers to w/e happens after that.

    One thing I do think is that C++ is making a resurgence. I think it's a counter-movement created from the insanity that is web development and scripting in general.

    You may say that it's hard to get a job in C++ but I'm looking toward the future with hope. Proxygen is a great example. People are sick of JS. They're sick of PHP. They're sick of Ruby. Proxygen is basically a massively successful company saying, "Yeah, we're going back to basics." C++11 is probably a _huge_ part of this decision (C++11 is basically the best thing ever).

    And let's not forget WebAssembly whose main target is going to be C/C++ on initial release.

    So from my perspective, getting good at C++11 is going to be a huge boon because it's going to allow us to structure front-end code in a sane way. Honestly, after dealing with JS this much, the language has horrendous flaws that the ECMA people don't really seem to care to fix.

    Hopefully WebAssembly will be web development Jesus.

    And even then, I'm okay with never professionally doing C++. Or meshing. I do want to solve all types of interesting problems and make a product that users are happy to use. For me, that's just the best feeling.

  3. #18
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    I've looked around here a bit ....
    Home - D Programming Language

    James

  4. #19
    [](){}(); manasij7479's Avatar
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    How many other languages have you worked with as much as C++ ?

  5. #20
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MutantJohn View Post
    The things I like about C++ is that it's so versatile.
    C++'s only strength is in its plethora of features that you won't be punished for not using. If this versatility is what matters most to you, no language is even going to come close. It's also the big thing D, Rust, and other attempts to take a bite out of the C++ user base get wrong.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    As you probably remember, I think that programming just plain sucks.
    I also remember you promising a detailed post about this

  6. #21
    Make Fortran great again
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    Quote Originally Posted by MutantJohn View Post
    I'm also curious if I'd even see _that_ much of a speed-up. The math is largely stack-based and meant for relatively small matrices (5x5 at the largest).

    Though Fortran may not be applicable for this one application, it sounds like there's a lot of other features that would make it attractive. Namely, the syntax, inclusion of mathematical routines and the execution policies.

    I know C++17 is supposed to be getting those as well but still, it's nice knowing that Fortran would be a good alternative.
    gfortran is <10% faster for the same program vs gcc, but Clang is currently faster than gfortran. Waiting patiently for a Fortran front-end to LLVM. They do have them right now, but nothing that simply works.

    Edit: if it's speed you're after, use the intel compilers.
    Last edited by Epy; 08-05-2016 at 07:10 PM.

  7. #22
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epy View Post
    gfortran is <10% faster for the same program vs gcc
    Doesn't this make it roughly the same speed or slower than the visual studio c++ compiler?

    I also remember you promising a detailed post about this
    If I had a penny for every failed promise I make...
    Truth is I get bored after a while organizing all those disparaging thoughts into a coherent whole. But I'll get to it eventually...
    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  8. #23
    Make Fortran great again
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Doesn't this make it roughly the same speed or slower than the visual studio c++ compiler?
    I don't know, I avoid MSVC like the plague. I don't consider it relevant because it isn't cross-platform.

  9. #24
    Its hard... But im here swgh's Avatar
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    Since it's on the same sort of topic, do you guys think Java will ever
    be replaced by C#? I mean in a long long time. .NET is hugely popular
    now, and some Java schools are even changing to it.

    One of the big things is that Microsoft fairly recently made C# open
    source/cross platform (which they should of done from the start).
    Java has such a huge play in mobile development though, personally I
    cannot see it being thrown to the wind until literally ALL mobile development
    moves to .NET and Microsoft re-brand the technology to fully support all the
    application development Java currently caters for.

    I am not bashing Java, I know the language well, but I use C exclusively now
    at work. Just my view on it.
    Double Helix STL

  10. #25
    Make Fortran great again
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    Quote Originally Posted by swgh View Post
    Since it's on the same sort of topic, do you guys think Java will ever
    be replaced by C#? I mean in a long long time. .NET is hugely popular
    now, and some Java schools are even changing to it.

    One of the big things is that Microsoft fairly recently made C# open
    source/cross platform (which they should of done from the start).
    Java has such a huge play in mobile development though, personally I
    cannot see it being thrown to the wind until literally ALL mobile development
    moves to .NET and Microsoft re-brand the technology to fully support all the
    application development Java currently caters for.

    I am not bashing Java, I know the language well, but I use C exclusively now
    at work. Just my view on it.
    Quite frankly I hope both .NET and Java die. Just about everything I install that mentions .NET or the JRE as a dependency ends up being a buggy piece of crap, which is why I've never bothered with any of the .NET languages or Java.

  11. #26
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epy View Post
    Just about everything I install that mentions .NET or the JRE as a dependency ends up being a buggy piece of crap...
    I think this hardly qualifies as Java's or .NET's fault.
    This is the fault of amateur programmers. Programming is a demanding profession that not just anyone can pick up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  12. #27
    Make Fortran great again
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    I think this hardly qualifies as Java's or .NET's fault.
    This is the fault of amateur programmers. Programming is a demanding profession that not just anyone can pick up.
    I could agree with that. Very much reminds me of crappy VB6 programs. Although I'm still annoyed that I run into issues regarding the different versions of each runtime. It's really annoying to have to have a computer with JRE 6 to use our PBX configuration software. Or the older .NET programs that won't work without an older runtime.

  13. #28
    Registered User MutantJohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manasij7479 View Post
    How many other languages have you worked with as much as C++ ?
    Probably just JS. I've done some stuff in PHP and it didn't kill me. Java too.

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