Thread: Opinions on Brexit?

Originally Posted by Yarin

I'm not sure who's suppose to be the parent and who's suppose to be the child in this analogy, but Britain has no responsibility to the EU, it has a responsibility to the people who's backs it rests on.

The analogy only goes so far. But the point was that Britain had, still has, a responsibility towards the European Union. It is not only one of its founding members. England even predates the Maastricht Treaty, as a member of the EEC, by 20 years. But above all, England benefited from the EU for those 20 years plus the 24 years since Maastricht. That's 44 years of full membership participation in the European project, with all the fiscal, political and economical benefits it brought. And now you are going to leave because...

Because... let me ask you, do you know exactly why are you leaving EU or why the EU was such a bad thing for you? Precisely, why did you vote for the brexit? Was your country better in your parents lifetime? Was the EU threatening your jobs, your security or your lifestyle? Was your country economy being destitute by the EU countries? What exactly did it? Or is this just your British nationalist vein throbbing in your neck telling you "We don't need those European dolts. We are British!"

And of all those things you see bad about your country and that stimulate your vote, how many of them can you attribute to your own local politicians? In other words, how much is it the fault of your own damn politicians?

I'm not happy with the EU. Make no mistake. I can't stand what it turned out. I have my share of criticisms and they aren't different from many of the brexit supporters. But leaving the EU? For pete's sake, you people are insane! Going back to the old rivalries, the old Europe of resentment, of wars every 40 or 50 years, and of absolutely enmity in the meantime, with no attempt at cooperation and no attempt at bringing together the peoples of Europe? No thanks.

And to think.. you just isolated yourselves from the rest of Europe and from your own British union for no good reason! What the hell! Are you people even thinking what you are doing?

Originally Posted by Yarin

"I'm not happy with this leech on my back, but gosh, it's telling me I would suffer if I pulled it off, so I better leave it"

But what leech. You were as much a part of what the EU has become as any other country, Yarin. Or do you think that during the 40 years of your participation, England has always been the outsider trying to row against the current? You surely cannot believe that. Do you? No, you were as guilty as everyone else of what it became. You made it (your politicians made it) like everyone else, what it is today. And now you are jumping ship because what you help make sucks. (By you, I mean the collective you, Britain and its leaders. Not you specifically. Unless I'm wrong )

There's a feeling of betrayal in the whole of Europe. But that's expected of the British. (purposely made into a paragraph of its own, ed).

You know, countries like Portugal, Spain, Ireland, or Greece, (and Germany for the opposing reasons) all have a whole lot more reasons to leave the project. You didn't get into the Euro joy ride, like we did. And that is not a leech. That is a leash! And yet, despite all the difficulties, all have with more or less effort accepted that an united Europe is better than a separated one. I cannot respect Britain decision, only accept it as it is their democratic and political right. But respect for the decision, Britain will get very little from the EU countries. For that, you should turn to your Americans friends who are rejoicing over it right as we speak. For them, there's no better news than an economically divided and weaker Europe.

Originally Posted by whiteflags

I recognize that in order to get most of the benefits of a good trade deal, you need to be an EU member.

Why do you believe that? Is it written somewhere that member states may not make good deals with non-members?

Originally Posted by whiteflags

Britain getting control of its borders is apparently part of the rhetoric for Brexit, and in order to do that, it would have to cut itself off from Europe in much the same way the rest of the world does, i.e. visas and things like that.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Are you going to remove the locks from your front door because you don't like bearing the inconvenience of carrying around a key?

Originally Posted by whiteflags

leaving the EU doesn't even help you escape such regulations?

Outside the EU you're free to trade with the rest of the world on your own terms, and even the EU wherein import restrictions are more lenient than export restrictions.

Originally Posted by Mario F.

Or do you think that during the 40 years of your participation, England has always been the outsider trying to row against the current? You surely cannot believe that. Do you?

Of course not.

Originally Posted by Mario F.

No, you were as guilty as everyone else of what it became. You made it (your politicians made it) like everyone else, what it is today. And now you are jumping ship because what you help make sucks. (By you, I mean the collective you, Britain and its leaders. Not you specifically. Unless I'm wrong )

The UK is hardly of a single political mind. It's not my fault the EU is corrupt.

Originally Posted by Mario F.

You know, countries like Portugal, Spain, Ireland, or Greece, (and Germany for the opposing reasons) all have a whole lot more reasons to leave the project.

I agree; Greece especially.

Originally Posted by Mario F.

You didn't get into the Euro joy ride, like we did. And that is not a leech. That is a leash!

Leech or leash. Neither are nice to have around your neck.

Originally Posted by Mario F.

And yet, despite all the difficulties, all have with more or less effort accepted that an united Europe is better than a separated one.

False dichotomy. States can enjoy partnerships without being under the Union.

Originally Posted by Mario F.

I cannot respect Britain decision

You're in luck. I don't think the British government will respect it either.

Originally Posted by Yarin

You're in luck. I don't think the British government will respect it either.

So why the efe did they make the referendum!?
Wasn't I back there trying to tell you something about your country and your politicians?

Originally Posted by Yarin

Outside the EU you're free to trade with the rest of the world on your own terms, and even the EU wherein import restrictions are more lenient than export restrictions.

Since Britain is largely responsible for the trade rules and restrictions, and the country that pushed for the biggest majority of it, I find the whole argument rich. England and Germany made a hell of a job there. You were best pals during that time. Good times. But now... oh, the trade rules and restrictions we invented, helped write and signed are just not good anymore. We are leaving!

EDIT:

In fact the Trading argument really, really pi... me of! Who do you think got the short straw of the rules you and the German pushed all over the EU? YOU?! You got to be joking. It was the little Europe, Yarin. Us, the poor countries. Until the 90s, Portugal had the 2nd largest finishing fleet in Europe, but then its fishermen were payed top burn their boats. Literally burn them. Because the economy scale quotas mandated we shouldn't catch more fish than you, so you could sell your fish to us. Who do you think we have to buy our submarines from? Our machinery, even our bloody soaps? From you. The little Europe became hostage of the big Europe. And for the next 20 years you basked on that. Hope you saved some money.

But then, you all but completely destroyed your Industrial Sector, leaving Germany to strengthen theirs and France to catch up. That's what your politicians did and that's what you asked them to do as you kept putting your votes on them and asking for more jobs at a desk and less jobs at the factory, as you pushed for Globalization and the loss of your industrial sector. So now it's not fun anymore, is it? Now England isn't just getting as much from it as before. And Germany and France are your suppliers. Welcome to being us. Only, we haven't left yet.

EDIT:
One last thing. The British petitioners are asking for the vote to be decided by at least 60% and a participation of 75%. That is why they are requesting for a second voting. This has clearly divided the country and the Union. It's not a decision to be made lightly. I agree with them, not really because that could be advantageous to the way I think (it's hard to understand if it would at this point), but because democratic decisions that affect an entire country cannot be decided by the small minority of a small participation. And you should to.

If I learned anything, it's that if Alaska or Texas wanted to secede, the vote should absolutely be called USexit.

Originally Posted by whiteflags

If I learned anything, it's that if Alaska or Texas wanted to secede, the vote should absolutely be called USexit.

Nonono. That looks like US would be leaving Texas and Alaska. Instead it's Alexit and Texit. As always you make the best word blends. We had Grexit before Brexit. Brexit sounds nicer. But still can't beat Texit or Alexit. Especially if the the main supporters are called Tex and Alex. Tex it! Alex it! You go mind numb with the possibilities here.

Oh, I missed it completely!