Thread: Programming is a legal profession after all!

  1. #1
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Programming is a legal profession after all!

    Rejoice my American friends, rejoice! Programming is legal. Oracle lost to Google, thus setting the world to its normal course.

    Everyone wins. Even Oracle.
    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  2. #2
    Programming Wraith GReaper's Avatar
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    This was absurd from the very beginning! Using Oracle's logic, Kernighan and Ritchie( as well as Linus ) should sue the whole world...
    This is why I'm against copyright and patents, because it has much more potential for evil than good.
    A law that was made to protect individuals from plagiarism( idea theft? ) shouldn't apply to corporations.
    Devoted my life to programming...

  3. #3
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GReaper View Post
    This was absurd from the very beginning! Using Oracle's logic, Kernighan and Ritchie( as well as Linus ) should sue the whole world...
    This case is not that simple. There was the matter of a license. The case wasn't absurd until not long ago. Oracle had a case for copyright infringement and Google had a case for the non copyrightable nature of APIs. Both were deciding this on court and we can't blame Oracle for trying. Then judge Alsup rules that Oracle doesn't have a case. APIs are not copyrightable because, in the spirit and letter of the copyright law, you cannot copyright functional aspects of source code. So far so good. Judge Alsup decision ran alongside two decades of software copyright law.

    Then Oracle appeals. This is still not absurd. It's expected.

    And then the absurd thing happens. The appellate court completely overturns Judge Alsup in a mixed decision. They go against 20 years of software copyright law, and ignoring the common practice of an whole industry, they make the sweeping statement that APIs are copyrightable because they are creative works, completely ignorant that software development is a semi-scientific activity that while retaining a creative element because all human activities do, has a completely different organization to that of drawing a painting or writing a book.

    Google is now forced to go back and defend itself on the grounds of Fair Use. Something that makes no sense at all. It means that you and I will have to claim fair Use if we wish to reimplement a copyrighted API. So even now, this problem isn't solved. Even after Oracle's appeal (if they get one), even if Google wins. Because the specter of an appellate court ruling that APIs are copyrightable is still damaging the whole industry. And it will probably take another high profile case, or a change in the law(**), for another appellate court to decide in contrary, or the law to be more clear about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by GReaper View Post
    This is why I'm against copyright and patents, because it has much more potential for evil than good.
    Copyright and patents are good. But a lot of neglect and a strong lack of balance between opposing lobbies in the most active legislative and judicial system in the world, which is at the same time home to some of the most powerful companies and lobby groups in the world, has made the current laws a complete mess.


    (**) That change may appear sooner than later. The Computer & Communications Industry Association, a lobbying group that represents many tech companies including Google, Microsoft and Amazon had this to say in a brief statement after the trial: "It was an important win for software developers everywhere."
    Last edited by Mario F.; 05-26-2016 at 05:40 PM.
    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  4. #4
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    And then the absurd thing happens. The appellate court completely overturns Judge Alsup in a mixed decision.
    O_o

    The word "absurd" seems insufficient when considering the potential for harm.

    How many groups have the possibility to fund a "Fair Use" defense against the likes of industry giants?

    Soma
    “Salem Was Wrong!” -- Pedant Necromancer
    “Four isn't random!” -- Gibbering Mouther

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    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    The word "absurd" seems insufficient when considering the potential for harm.
    Yeah. During the past couple of months I've read in the press copyright law experts using such words as "abhorrent", "egregious" and "obscene".
    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    I have always looked at software APIs like the steering wheel, gearshift, accelerator, brake interface in a car. Nobody owns that interface, and anyone is free to re-implement it in their own way. That's what makes this lawsuit so completely asinine.
    What can this strange device be?
    When I touch it, it gives forth a sound
    It's got wires that vibrate and give music
    What can this thing be that I found?

  7. #7
    and the hat of copycat stevesmithx's Avatar
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    Oh noes! Now how will Larry Ellison buy that island?
    Seriously, Oracle should grant all rights on Java to Google, instead of making money off it on lawsuits. Google atleast has competent engineers that actually cares about Java (due to Android) and *actually* fix the zillion security flaws/0-days. Why Sun sold Java to these morons (or why Google didn't outbid Oracle), remains a mystery. Oracle should stick to their strength, database (and horrible licensing practices of course ;-) ).

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    Make Fortran great again
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  9. #9
    Programming Wraith GReaper's Avatar
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    I happened to read this awesome, spot-on reply:
    Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense!

    Look at me. I'm a lawyer working for a multibillion dollar software company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, Google's victory will destroy the GPL!
    Devoted my life to programming...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GReaper View Post
    I happened to read this awesome, spot-on reply:
    hahaha

    Programming is a legal profession after all!-2x14-chef-aid-south-park-20375541-720-540-jpg

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