Thread: Why should I learn Lisp?

In another online discussion about programming, it was mentioned that Lisp would be a good language to better understand CS as a concept and algorithms in general.

I googled around a bit and I couldn't find any overwhelmingly good evidence.

So, what is Lisp and why should I care about it? What does it do better than C/C++?

I've researched that Lisp is NOT functional and overall, its syntax seems far more confusing to me than something like C. I've heard it's really good for AI and that the Lisp code is its own abstract syntax tree so I guess it's more what you see is what you get than C or C++ would be.

So aside from the virtue of learning a new language for the sake of broadening my horizons, what does Lisp bring to the table that makes it awesome?

Originally Posted by MutantJohn

In another online discussion about programming, it was mentioned that Lisp would be a good language to better understand CS as a concept and algorithms in general.

I googled around a bit and I couldn't find any overwhelmingly good evidence.

So, what is Lisp and why should I care about it? What does it do better than C/C++?

I've researched that Lisp is NOT functional and overall, its syntax seems far more confusing to me than something like C. I've heard it's really good for AI and that the Lisp code is its own abstract syntax tree so I guess it's more what you see is what you get than C or C++ would be.

So aside from the virtue of learning a new language for the sake of broadening my horizons, what does Lisp bring to the table that makes it awesome?

From personal experience Lisp is good to know if you want to go into the more theoretical side of computer science. That was true 15 years ago at least, it might not be true any more.

For example, being able to at least read Lisp, or even better Scheme, is a prerequisite for reading SICP... :-)

Originally Posted by Elkvis

I don't know why, but this made me laugh pretty hard. Lisp has a reputation for smug and arrogant users, but C and C++ have their own fair share of smug users. Probably more of them than Lisp, in fact, simply because of the market penetration of the languages.

I was gonna say, Yarin's comment really made me laugh too.

Pretty sure anyone who's fairly proficient at a language tends to be smug and arrogant.

I don't really think that learning Lisp gives any real advantages. I had learned a little bit of programming in the distant past and then really learned to program using AutoCAD's version of Lisp. I enjoyed the spoils of built-in lists and functional programming, but these things are in Python and other languages as well.

Originally Posted by Epy

Pretty sure anyone who's fairly proficient at a language tends to be smug and arrogant.

I don't really think that learning Lisp gives any real advantages. I had learned a little bit of programming in the distant past and then really learned to program using AutoCAD's version of Lisp. I enjoyed the spoils of built-in lists and functional programming, but these things are in Python and other languages as well.

Yeah, Lisp probably doesn't have the relevance it once might have had.

My suggestion is to only learn Lisp if one thinks it can teach something valuable. It is the same for any language really, there are 2 reasons to pick up a new language, either because you need it for work or one thinks that learning it will teach a new way to look at programming and/or problem solving. It doesn't have to be a new language to learn new ways to look at problem solving though, there are several languages that can do both OOP and functional programming for example. But one could argue that some languages are more "pure" for functional programming or OOP programming or what not.

Usually it is better to not buy into the hype though. My advice to the OP is to not learn Lisp until/unless he sees a really compelling reason to do so.

I still think that one reason to learn Lisp is to actually read SICP. It is a good read. It is one of those books that you either love or hate though...

EDIT: There is a third reason to learn a new language, because it is fun.

Hmm... Interesting. Well, I guess I won't dive into Lisp then. It doesn't sound particularly fun nor will I be paid to learn it. I'd rather just get better at PHP. That's right, I said it: PHP!!!!

Originally Posted by MutantJohn

Hmm... Interesting. Well, I guess I won't dive into Lisp then. It doesn't sound particularly fun nor will I be paid to learn it. I'd rather just get better at PHP. That's right, I said it: PHP!!!!

Ugh...

I will really have to struggle to keep quiet... MUST KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT... ;-)

I agree with Elkvis. I'd say that a fair amount of PHP programmers are basically script kiddies.

Originally Posted by Epy

I agree with Elkvis. I'd say that a fair amount of PHP programmers are basically script kiddies.

Define what you mean by "script kiddies"?

My view is that there are probably more programmers with less understanding writing PHP code than most other languages. I think that that is due to the fact that it is pretty easy to go from knowing nothing of PHP to a "finished" web page hosting dynamic content in a week or so. If you define finished as "showing content to the user".

From my experience working in the security field I must say that I have yet to review PHP code that doesn't contain some form of latent security issue due to an misunderstanding of how PHP works or due to quirks in the language. I'm not saying all such faults are exploitable though, just latent defects. (Yes, the same could be argued for C code as well. People seem to be unable to understand/read documentation or they are too lazy to use APIs correctly.)

The problem with PHP code is that the defects are usually easier to find and exploit.

As in, someone who Googles how to do something in PHP (or whatever other web language) and copies code verbatim from sites with examples, then makes a horrible spaghetti mess trying to bring all the copied examples together.

Originally Posted by Epy

As in, someone who Googles how to do something in PHP (or whatever other web language) and copies code verbatim from sites with examples, then makes a horrible spaghetti mess trying to bring all the copied examples together.

That seems to be in line with what I think about PHP programmers as well... :-)