Thread: Michael Brown / Darren Wilson / Ferguson, MO

But rioting only perpetuates the very stereotypes that black people claim to hate so much. They want people to stop using those stereotypes, but insist that they be allowed to continue the behavior that perpetuates them. What possible good will it do? What possible effect can it have, other than to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that those people participating in the riots are nothing but animals? The riots are not justified, no matter how much you want them to be. It is never acceptable to harm others and damage or steal their property. Who is really damaging "race relations?" I'll give you a hint: it's not the cops who are trying to protect people and their businesses from the riots. If you support the rioters and the looters, then you're the one who needs to check yourself.

I, and I believe everyone here, understands why there's civil unrest. Understanding the reasons does not excuse the behavior.

I wholeheartedly support peaceful protests. I agree that there's a systemic problem with police and their use of force. I do not believe it is a race-oriented problem. Police have grown far more bold in their use of deadly force, and their departments have grown much more lax in their tolerance of the use of deadly force. They beat people for recording video of them. They kill dogs for no reason. They recently killed a 7-year-old girl while she slept. They gunned down a man in a Wal-Mart store, based on a false report from a 911 caller. They are not the good guys anymore. But that does not excuse the violent and destructive actions of these misguided individuals in Ferguson, or anywhere else.

Why was Dr. King's movement successful? Because they didn't riot. They didn't loot stores in their own neighborhood. They marched peacefully and bore whatever punishment the police threw at them. They were peaceful, respectable, and persistent. The rioters in Ferguson are neither peaceful nor respectable. They are criminals, and they need to be handled like criminals.

Racism exists. No one can deny that. But exactly because of that, one should be careful and not throw the racist card at every opportunity a prejudiced minority is the target of some injustice. That is exactly what I and many others in here are objecting to. Racism should once and for all be it too the target of objective analysis. Where is the clear evidence, or even a hint of probable reason, to justify calling the shooting of Michael Brown a racial issue?

Why is that, in the face of racism, everyone seems to lose their objectivity, while being so proud of it on other matters of life? Is it really a matter of fact that a white police officer shooting a black criminal is enough evidence of racism? Can or cannot white police officers shoot down black criminals? Are you prepared to approve a law that denies it?

Police brutality, or the excessive use of force, is an issue in almost every country in the world. It is practiced regularly on all types of citizens, regardless of color, creed, gender or age. One could even argue with some irony that police officers are good at respecting human rights by making no distinction who they beat up or shoot upon. But when you see the excessive use of force being practiced against a different race, particularly being practiced by the so-called privileged against the so-called underprivileged, why is that it is immediately assumed it was racism that motivated it?

Being so liberal about how you see racism -- by seeing it every time a black man is killed by a white police officer -- is the best cop out attitude you can think of. Instead of addressing racism by the balls, you are just further damaging your cause by refusing to think and react objectively to it. You think you can champion the cause against racism by being an idiot who promotes action against an event that you can't even objectively qualify as being racial? (And if prisons are full of black people, what does that have anything to do with Michael Brown shooting?)

And what do you know of the community in question? What do you know of the type of crimes practiced there and what's the racial breakdown of criminal activity in that region? What kind of pressures police officers face in that area? Are they afraid for their lives? Have they lost comrades to criminal activity? Is there any psychological support for police officers in the area? Is there any special training? How is the community involved with the police in this area? What is the day to day life in that place? Is this a single incident? Has it happened before. What the story on this police officer? What's the story on his precinct? What's the story on Michael Brown?

Do you really wish to investigate better and face the fact there is more likely a complex web of personal stories and events that lead to that fatidic day, or do you prefer to just tag it as racism?

Originally Posted by MutantJohn

Don't be silly. We should expect demographic distributions to match. We should find matching distributions in all walks of life and granted, there will be some variances. We will not expect perfect matching but if 12-13% of the population makes up 39.4% (I googled it this time, sorry for assuming it was 2/3), that seems like a red flag. It's very disproportionate and it's important to recognize this anomaly in the data and postulate what is causing it.

If the number was like 18%, I wouldn't be bring this up. It's just, something seems off. And subtle racism is a thing too.

Why would you expect demographic distributions to match? The only way it could ever happen is if all unique attributes of any demographic were either erased, or compensated for. To compensate enough to get perfect equality of outcome would mean a state in which people had different expectations and rules depending on what they happened to be born as.

Originally Posted by MutantJohn

But after all, it's far easier to just call them animals​ and act like they're the ones with the problem.

I think this calls for a:

Ugh, I can't even ... ™

Pointing out ideological flaws that aren't even mine is kind of irrelevant because no matter what you believe or how non-racist you are in real life, that doesn't stop the fact that a minority group got fed up and decided to destroy things.

O_O

You unbelievably racist piece of ........!

How dare you call out other people for racism and lump valid complaint, responsible demonstration, and black people in general with all those jerks doing nothing but harm.

A minority group did not get fed up with racism and decide to destroy stuff.

The minority group has behaved responsibly; they have staged peaceful protests trying to avoid confrontation wherever possible.

The vast majority of black people in Ferguson and other protests around my country are behaving with respect; they are not destroying the hard work of others just because they are wronged.

The people destroying stuff, regardless of race, are just a.....es.

The a.....e is not a minority group you filthy racist scum.

Soma

lol phantom.

I quit. I'm done with this argument. Peace.

Edit : My point is we shouldn't be blaming the rioters for this happening. This may sound extreme to this crowd but I believe these riots were a symptom of something larger. These people's attitudes is the product of a system of subjugation. I'm not denying nor saying that some people rioting weren't doing it because it's fun/they got what they want.

But it's not exactly new for an oppressed group to get angry and lash out. You can only corner an animal so long before it bites back. Blaming the riot on the rioters doesn't do us any good. We have to analyze the system that created the rioters unless there's just a mass of genuinely evil people in Ferguson and across the country. I choose not to see the people as inherently evil and that even though they committed evil, it is the product of something much larger. People do interesting things when put in certain circumstances and yes, this is predicated on the belief that people are partially a product of their environment.

Now, none of my statements are meant to be taken as black and white absolutes. So kindly get off my **** unless you want to bear my children.

Originally Posted by MutantJohn

Also, you guys really look down on the rioters.

Damn right we do, and for good reason!

Originally Posted by MutantJohn

We don't need indignation. This is a cry for attention.

In what world is "a cry for attention," valid justification for harming people and damaging or stealing their property?

Originally Posted by MutantJohn

These people aren't happy. They're angry.

And rightfully so. One of their loved ones is dead. That should make any sane person unhappy or angry, depending on the circumstances.

Originally Posted by MutantJohn

They're so angry they're willing to destroy everything around them.

Please explain how you're not trying to justify riots? All I see from you is clear support for them. You are trying to "explain why they happened" in the context of using that explanation to make it ok. It's not.

Originally Posted by MutantJohn

But after all, it's far easier to just call them animals​ and act like they're the ones with the problem.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and acts like a duck....

The rioters and looters are the worst possible examples of how to handle this sort of situation. They are doing nothing but hurt your cause. You should be condemning them as well, not apologizing for them, or trying to explain away their actions.

My point is we shouldn't be blaming the rioters for this happening.

O_O

WHO THEN SHOULD WE BLAME!?

Should we blame the average black person who would have harm come to no other?

Should we blame the average black person who wants nothing more than a fair shake?

Should we blame fine men and women who mark up the majority of our police force?

Should we blame the white people standing with their fellows, with the black protestors, in Ferguson?

Should we blame the black people who've been harmed, their property has been destroyed, by the riots?

Who should we blame if not the rioters?

You want to blame racists officers for unfair targeting of black people? Good.

You want to blame poor education for the continuing state of poor in the United States? Great.

But who are you are going to blame for the absolute filth causing harm?

I AM GOING TO BLAME THE PEOPLE CAUSING THE ........ING HARM!

Soma

Originally Posted by MutantJohn

But after all, it's far easier to just call them animals​ and act like they're the ones with the problem.

Originally Posted by MutantJohn

But it's not exactly new for an oppressed group to get angry and lash out. You can only corner an animal so long before it bites back

Quoted for the generations to come to see what hypocrisy looks like face to face.

Originally Posted by MutantJohn

lol phantom.

I quit. I'm done with this argument. Peace.

Why should you? After all, by your own attempt at examining the rioters and explaining their behavior in such a sympathetic manner, you should be more sympathetic of phantomotap who decided not to rob your store or burn your car, but instead to express his anger in words. Double standards? Or is it because this time the "rioter" is actually targeting you and your property (your intellectual property to be sure)? You see, I think you are the kind that needs his own store in Fergusson to be vandalized to stop feeling so sympathetic towards vandals and criminals. You won't feel so tempted at pulling out BS explanations for mass behavior.

So kindly get off my **** unless you want to bear my children.

O_o

Oh, you poor little lamb...

o_O

Wait...

Jesus Christ...

The privilege in this topic would overflow an unsigned long long int O_o

It just disappoints me to see that the people on this board seem so unaware of the cycle of poverty black people were forced into.

You sure are happy to point out when others are being racist to be so fragile.

[Edit]
Seriously, what do you expect?

You are giving a pass to violence because of race.

That is racism; that flavor of racism may not have caused as much harm as "hang-um-high" racism, but that racism still causes harm.

You are willing to ignore potential evidence of a kid being killed because of race.

That is racism; that flavor of racism may also not have caused as much harm as "hang-um-high" racism, but you are still racist.

You are calling out others for racism because they aren't going to give a pass to people causing harm in the name of race.

You are unbelievable.
[/Edit]

Soma