Diversity of imagination

[megafiddle]

You may have never wondered about this, because you may have always assumed that everyone imagines things
the same as you do. That is what I assumed for a long time. Then I discovered that some of us have very vivid
imaginations, some even describing the imagined images as if they were "drawn in neon".

Others, like myself, "see" nothing at all when we imagine something. Yet, there is something there. It is just not
"visual" in nature. I can't describe it.

Can one learn to visualize something? Or is it inherent in thieir being?

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[Sebastiani]

You may have never wondered about this, because you may have always assumed that everyone imagines things
the same as you do. That is what I assumed for a long time. Then I discovered that some of us have very vivid
imaginations, some even describing the imagined images as if they were "drawn in neon".

Others, like myself, "see" nothing at all when we imagine something. Yet, there is something there. It is just not
"visual" in nature. I can't describe it.

Can one learn to visualize something? Or is it inherent in thieir being?

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With a little practice, I think pretty much anyone can improve their visualization skills. I've always been pretty good at it, personally - most of my programming is done on that level in fact. For me, the real struggle has always been quite the opposite: associating words with concepts. Very frustrating!

[Yarin]

You may have never wondered about this, because you may have always assumed that everyone imagines things
the same as you do. That is what I assumed for a long time. Then I discovered that some of us have very vivid
imaginations, some even describing the imagined images as if they were "drawn in neon".

Others, like myself, "see" nothing at all when we imagine something. Yet, there is something there. It is just not
"visual" in nature. I can't describe it.-

I've heard people say this before. But I don't believe you, I think everyone does actually visualize (mostly) the same way, that it's a misunderstanding of terms.
Of course your thoughts aren't actually "visual", that what your eyes are for, but since we can all imagine things as if though we were seeing it, we call it "visualize".

Can one learn to visualize something? Or is it inherent in thieir being?

Yes and yes, everyone (healthy) learns to visualize at a young age.

[megafiddle]

With a little practice, I think pretty much anyone can improve their visualization skills. I've always been pretty good at it, personally - most of my programming is done on that level in fact. For me, the real struggle has always been quite the opposite: associating words with concepts. Very frustrating!

That's interesting. I recently started thinking about this again, as I was having trouble imagining some x,y coordinate problems
for some program graphics. I had to make some diagrams with a drawing program. It would have beeen a lot easier if I could
have "visualized" the problem. I would find it a very useful ability for programming.

How does one practice though? I have found very little on the subject, and nothing that helped.

I've heard people say this before. But I don't believe you, I think everyone does actually visualize (mostly) the same way, that it's a misunderstanding of terms.
Of course your thoughts aren't actually "visual", that what your eyes are for, but since we can all imagine things as if though we were seeing it, we call it "visualize".

That's a good point, it may be just a different understanding (and usage) of terms. If you ask enough people, though, I believe
you will find that some will say that actually "see" something when they imagine it. What do they mean then, when they say that
they "see" it? I cannot say that I "see" anything at all.

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[Matticus]

How does one practice though? I have found very little on the subject, and nothing that helped.

Visualize a three-dimensional object, and rotate it in your mind. (This seems to be a subset of "mental rotation".)

Then I discovered that some of us have very vivid imaginations, some even describing the imagined images as if they were "drawn in neon".

I see neon shapes/colors when I close my eyes, though I think this stimuli is being perceived on the channels related to eye data, as opposed to "in my mind".

Others, like myself, "see" nothing at all when we imagine something. Yet, there is something there. It is just not "visual" in nature. I can't describe it.

Indeed, I have tried to describe the mental patterns associated with mental "visualization", but it is probably an exercise in futility. I often describe these patterns in terms of "shapes" and "colors", but this is more like an analogy than an actual description. These things are fleeting, like something you see from the corner of your eye that disappears when you try focusing on it directly.

When I envision the days of the week, there is a ... twist ... in my mental image between "Wednesday" and "Thursday". It is impossible to actually describe, and when I try to intentionally visualize it, it doesn't work - but it's perceived when I'm not thinking about it too deeply.

[anduril462]

Some of what has been described here reminds me a bit of synesthesia. To megafiddle's original point, I think visualization where people actually "see" something sounds like the "screen" or "holographic" projections on which visual synesthetes see non-visual input. Maybe the visual centers of these visualizer's brain are larger or more active, or there's better cross-talk with whatever part of the brain is responsible for imagination and object modeling in the abstract.

@Matticus: I know a synesthete for whom days of the week have certain colors. Perhaps you are somewhere in the days-of-the-week--something synesthesia camp? I'd be curious to hear some attempt at describing what this "twist" is.

[Sebastiani]

How does one practice though? I have found very little on the subject, and nothing that helped.

That's a good question. Unfortunately I really don't know what to tell you other than to reiterate what Matticus said.

Some of what has been described here reminds me a bit of synesthesia.

Hmm, looking over that Wikipedia page I can readily identify with several types of synesthesia: chromesthesia, spatial sequence, number form, auditory-tactile, and mirror-touch. Especially interesting is the fact that those who experience chromesthesia often have perfect pitch; I too have always been able to reproduce songs, mechanical hums (such as from a motor or what have you), etc even without hearing such sounds for a very long time.

[Matticus]

@Matticus: I know a synesthete for whom days of the week have certain colors. Perhaps you are somewhere in the days-of-the-week--something synesthesia camp? I'd be curious to hear some attempt at describing what this "twist" is.

Interesting. Most of the information in the link you provided does not seem to apply to me (at least as far as I can recognize), but the "days of the week" thing seems to fit kind of well.

Clearly you recognize the difficulty in attempting to explain such perceptions, but I can give an attempt at an explanation. Given the subjective nature and lack of universal reference for comparison, it will probably be weak, but I'll try my best.

Envision a ribbon, running left to right. This ribbon is not flat, but instead billows in and out along its length. In some places, it billows "in" (towards you), and in other places, it billows "out" (away from you). The days of the week are placed along this hypothetical ribbon. In this analogy, the ribbon would actually twist between Wednesday and Thursday - it's a short, tight twist so "Thursday" would actually be the back of the ribbon. Right in the middle of "Thursday", it billows "in" the strongest (i.e. closer to "you" than any other point on the ribbon).

There is a sense of color along the whole "ribbon". I can't actually grasp the color sense of most of the ribbon (though it seems to vary smoothly according to depth), except for "Thursday" I get a sense of "yellow". Mind you, I don't actually see the color yellow, I just ... get a sense of it (whatever that means).

Whew! That was the first time I ever tried putting that into words. I imagine it's impossible to understand the sensation based on this description, but that's all I've got.

[gemera]

Been a while since I looked at this. My understanding is there is a pretty wide variation in how well people can visualise. The best have what I used to term "eidetic imagination", but a quick google on the term produced uncertain results. But "eidetic imagination" seems closely correliated with various supernatural phenomena. Not that I am necessarily implying it's then all imagination.

If you're interested in dreams and imagination etc I can't recommend Jung highly enough.

As far as practising visualisations its pretty simple to e.g. lie down and imagine yourself e.g. in a clearing in a forest and then allow yourself to take a journey into the landscape by just allowing your imagination to unfold. That kind of thing.

[whiteflags]

Whew! That was the first time I ever tried putting that into words. I imagine it's impossible to understand the sensation based on this description, but that's all I've got.

I don't want to sound rude, but I really wonder how something like that is used in everyday life. Does a ribbonesque calendar like that help with keeping appointments or something? When I have to remember a time or a date, it's really just a thought and I am not perceiving more than I would normally. I guess I am good at programming my internal clock, even though I would never see it like you do. I just have instincts to check the time or the computer time... right on time.

[Matticus]

I don't want to sound rude, but I really wonder how something like that is used in everyday life. Does a ribbonesque calendar like that help with keeping appointments or something?

Not rude at all. And, speaking for myself, it's not something I use in everyday life. I have a terrible memory and rely on a little calendar book to keep appointments. Heck, if I have a busy night planned, but leave my "to do" list at work, I'm lost when I get home. I was not bragging about a superpower or anything, just describing an odd perceptual thing I experience (that I was asked about).

I guess I am good at programming my internal clock, even though I would never see it like you do. I just have instincts to check the time or the computer time... right on time.

Again, I'm strictly speaking about an odd perceptual thing when thinking of the concept of a "week" - I don't see a calendar or clock in my head or anything, and it serves no real purpose.

Having a good internal clock as you do, however, is I imagine a lot more practically useful in life. Are you one of those people who can wake up at a pre-determined time?

[phantomotap]

Having a good internal clock as you do, however, is I imagine a lot more practically useful in life. Are you one of those people who can wake up at a pre-determined time?

O_o

I hate to jump in with such a thing being so far removed from the topic, but I had to now comment on how truly awful my "internal clock" is at keeping time.

I know that a lot of people experience epic tier focus, but I've lost complete days having no thoughts whatsoever for the passing time.

Soma

[whiteflags]

Having a good internal clock as you do, however, is I imagine a lot more practically useful in life. Are you one of those people who can wake up at a pre-determined time?

I can, but it does take some practice and lots of people can do it. Plenty of people could ride the bus, sleep, and wake up in time for their stop. In my case, I can wake up when I want more because I know exactly how long my body wants to sleep.

[megafiddle]

Visualize a three-dimensional object, and rotate it in your mind. (This seems to be a subset of "mental rotation".)

I do spend some time mentally rotating 2D objects, and it does help "imagining" them, but not "visualizing" them. (same with 3D objects)
My understanding was that some of us can form a sustained visual image when imagining something, an image that one could "look" at.
Apparently, this ability may not actually exist, depending on how one defines terms like "visualizing".

I see neon shapes/colors when I close my eyes, though I think this stimuli is being perceived on the channels related to eye data, as opposed to "in my mind".

I see only very faint shapes with my eyes closed, but would agree that it is related to eye data, not a mental formation.

Indeed, I have tried to describe the mental patterns associated with mental "visualization", but it is probably an exercise in futility. I often describe these patterns in terms of "shapes" and "colors", but this is more like an analogy than an actual description. These things are fleeting, like something you see from the corner of your eye that disappears when you try focusing on it directly.
When I envision the days of the week, there is a ... twist ... in my mental image between "Wednesday" and "Thursday". It is impossible to actually describe, and when I try to intentionally visualize it, it doesn't work - but it's perceived when I'm not thinking about it too deeply.

It is strange, most everything about whatever I'm trying to imagine, is there. The shape, the physical orientation, even the
color is there. I just can't "see" it. The only thing that I do perceive, is very much like a memory of something that I once perceived.

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