Thread: Steve Jobs dead at age 56

Originally Posted by Neo1

So Apple is exploiting the fact that most people have no idea that what they're doing is limiting to both customers and developers, yet their sales are through the roof. Hence, shady business model AND high profits, which is the very thing that Yarin argued wasn't possible, since, as we all know, <sarcasm> capitalism is fool proof and any company with an immoral business model will decay and eventually perish because their customers will find a moral alternative. </sarcasm>

Define shady and immoral business practice. I really want to know. Those words carry a weight and define more than what you may seem to think.

I honestly think you folks are behaving in the exact same way, but on opposite ends, of the very Apple users you claim to be dumb, by simply rejecting any form of deliberate thinking in the name of an irrational passion (them) or hate (you).

Boy, will you hear me complain about Apple products and Steve's business practices! Make no mistake. But where you see shadiness and immorality, I see a valid, legal and successful business. Albeit one that is too strung up on a single market that is still too embryonic (and not much competitive yet) to give Apple any security for the future as the time approaches where feature full and highly competitive devices start to appear by other manufacturers.

My dislike for Apple products and services is not much different from yours. My biggest complain is the price, my second biggest complain is the closed platform that has been stifling innovation and competitiveness (see Apple lawsuits). So I don't buy Apple. Nothing, nada, zilch. Not even an iPod I ever owned from Apple. The last thing I ever touched that had Steve Jobs hand in it was three NeXT computers at university back in the late 80s. But I don't claim that my dislike for Apple business choices immediately translate into them being a shady and immoral business practice. I just don't try to justify my dislike behind a false veil of moral concerns I've never give much of a though about, but still spout like some indisputable truth. I reserve passionate and irrational prejudice for the things that really matter in my life. Not some faceless corporation and its hipster products. Who's being dumb?

.......

Meanwhile, about how close Apple platform is. It is very close. And very controlled. It's the antithesis of all that I defend on the computing business world. But that doesn't for one moment make me forget why it is so. In a mass market, highly commoditized (sp?), as is that of smart phones and is becoming that of tabled devices, if suppliers don't control distribution they risk a market crash like that which nearly destroyed the video gaming industry in the USA in the 80s and forever reshaped the business landscape over there. The truth is that the biggest enemy of companies like Apple, Google or Microsoft in these type of markets are people like you, me, and millions of other developers out there, possibly eager to take a piece of the pie and develop for the platform, selling crappy, useless, applications for 1 USD. Make no mistake, we'd saturate the market in no time, eclipsing from view high production levels and quality products, like a cancer.

Many lessons were learned from that incident 30 years ago. Want to complain about these business practices? Look no further than modern console manufacturers like Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft with their perfect gatekeeping approach to their markets. But if they don't do it, you and I will put them out of business in no time. Because the truth is this: put it in the end of The People and we'll make sure we screw it up faster than you can say "shady and immoral business practices".

Originally Posted by anduril462

That analogy doesn't really hold water. People who drive SUVs and add extra pollution to the areas surround the roadways negatively affect people who live/work/whatever near there. People who use an iPhone, with it's restricted/closed platform don't negatively affect those around them.

I think that is very simplistic.* The behavior of people around you is not only relevant in so far as it threatens your life. If we all believed that, I could buy crack in bulk at Walmart, because no matter how much I smoked, it would certainly not be a threat to anyone else.

Of course, maybe it would be better if we did think that way. OTOH, what I said originally,

Originally Posted by MK27

Analyzing consumer behavior and the consequences of such is a very valid thing to do -- how are you going to understand Modern Western Civilization otherwise?

was where I was coming from and I honestly don't see how that is contentious at all. At the very least, it is not a bad plan to keep your eye on the pack before they become a threat to you personally. I think it's part of what's called "sociology". Another analogy: one day I'd like to re-read this book:

From Caligari to Hitler: A Psychological History of the German Film - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the book is known for making a link between the apolitical and escapist orientation of German expressionism and the totalitarianism which followed in German society

Which is not to say that I consider the iphone a harbringer of apocalypse, but sometimes strong analogies are the clearest. So the perspective is not about technical achievement (between the wars, there were two centers of high budget, high tech movie making in the world, and many of the techniques now associated with Hollywood, such long rolling shots using a camera dolly on rails, were actually pioneered in Germany) but about analyzing content, as per whiteflags point about no porn allowed on the iphone:

Originally Posted by whiteflags

I'm glad we agree here. There you have described our socially conservative culture. If we didn't have a moral majority it wouldn't be a problem and porn would be fine on mobile phones.

Why do people want a smartphone? What do they do with it? How much are they willing to pay for it? I think it is interesting that the majority of westerners are probably now paying double or triple what they paid for phone service 15 years ago, but will foam at the mouth when some city council proposes a $50/month increase in property taxes in order to cover basic services and/or control a deficit.

Products are a sort of battleground about values. One of the things I think the ipod + itunes encouraged was the music industry pushing an inferior product (the mp3) at the same price as a CD, then turning around and whining about the consequences.

Does that mean I think we should all burn our mobile devices? No, I own an iphone and it's packed with mp3s. But I think lauding them as miracles is a little excessive too.

To be honest, I'm not that interested in Apple or Steve Jobs, I'm just baffled that some CEO dies and suddenly there's clips of air-headed pop culture figures on the evening news talking about what a genius he was. What kind of "culture" is this? Did the dark minds behind the HDMI cable get Gweneth Paltrow and Kevin Bacon (nb, it wasn't actually them) on the horn and say, quick, give the media a quote, we want this guy to be remembered as a hero? Last time I checked, Apple did not even claim to be socially or environmentally conscious.

The Big Mac has made way, way, way more money than the iphone. Is that evidence that it is tasty and nutritious? The fact that a product makes money is only that. Apple is a successful capitalist enterprise. Beyond this, I really do not see how they have done much good for the world, or why anyone would believe that they have. As for all those (essentially nihilistic) young people lining up overnight at the store twice a year and now lamenting the CEO's death -- I'll bite my tongue but the phrase consumer psychosis comes to mind. Something out of some dystopian "fantasy" -- a bad joke that is real...

* also, it's worth considering the significance of the $2 billion tantalum capacitor industry, what tantalum is, what products tantalum is in, where it comes from, and what the consequences of mindless consumerism are again (Because consumerism can't be bad, right? I don't have to participate, right? We are all free to choose, right?)

Smartphones: Blood stains at our fingertips - The Globe and Mail

Not to further disrespect the man further than we already have, but I saw this and got a laugh out of it. This is a Twitter quote from Serena Williams (USA tennis player) regarding Steve Job's death.

Originally Posted by Serena Williams

Steve Jobs the Thomas Edison of our day. You will be missed but your Legend will Live forever.

Now, I'm sure she meant this as a positive simply because she didn't know any better, but those who have beef with Steve Job's business practices and actually know a thing or two about Thomas Edison should get a kick out of that quote and how accurate it actually is.

Originally Posted by MK27

(Because consumerism can't be bad, right? I don't have to participate, right? We are all free to choose, right?)

I like your post very much. Especially the whole later part. But here, not so much. If you are putting these questions inside a single parenthesis and separating them by commas to try and establish a relationship between them, I object.

I'm uanware about any issues with Tantalum production and use in electronics. But I'm not responsible simply because I am a consumer. In opposition I could argue that as a consumer I give jobs, contribute to the wealth of my country (and world in general) and as a consequence help the needy. But I don't do any of those things. If there is something wrong with tantalum, the blame is on the ones doing it. Much like no one will thank me for having given them a job when I go to the local mall.

I just don't buy the "We all are responsible" mindset that became institutionalized after a certain left felt it would be easier to just blame everyone, to hide the fact there's always been a huge divide between what it say it defends and what it actually ends up doing when it gets to power. It's not our responsibility. It's everyone's responsibility!

I've been 42 years on the planet. Not long, but enough to learn that I'm not responsible for the deaths on Somalia, the near extinction of whales, or poverty in Africa. I was not responsible for the invasion of Iraq or for the downfall of my European economy. I'm not responsible for Apple's business practices, were I a consumer of their products. By choosing to buy from this or that one, I'm simply exercising my right to choose what's best for me and what better fits or supports my lifestyle and my way of thinking. And the only ones I have to answer to in this life is me and those I care for or that depend on me.

To people I absolutely detest, I deem no respect is necessary. Flame me for that one if you will, but Jobs is one of them. The man deserves no respect, neither in life nor death.
Were it someone else, matters might have been different.

I am not going to offer condolences or anything of the like to any family member that Jobs passed away. Granted it might mean a lot to them, I don't care. Jobs was an evil man and left a taint in the world. Such a man does not need to be honored in any way or form. Perhaps I should say "they should be happy he passed away."

But do not let this think I would say such to anyone. Someone dying is a sad thing, just not for this man. Were it someone else, the story would be entirely different.

He wasn't Hitler, you know....

I like my Mac and my iPod...

Originally Posted by Fordy

He wasn't Hitler, you know....

I like my Mac and my iPod...

To me, he was.

Is it truly unbelievable for someone to hold Jobs in such disregard? I seriously hated the guy and all that he made, so I am fine with comparing him to a "mini-Hitler."

I seriously hated the guy and all that he made, so I am fine with comparing him to a "mini-Hitler."

I'm seriously about to put you on ignore. This has to be the worst example of intelligence and respect I have ever witnessed here. We get it...you didn't like the guy. Move on.