Thread: Second year paper.

Greetings,

I'm currently studying a computer science degree here in the UK and for one of my assignments I'm to write a paper about something that interests me with regard to computing. I'm looking at the importance of language - not that I'm wanting to get into language wars or anything - but particularly the psychology of language: why do people think that the syntax is more important than the underlying programming principles and logic?

If anyone has any opinions about this then please feel free to contact me, you may do so anonymously if you like.

Also, here's a simple 'Hello World' program in Java:

Code:

public class Hello
{
	public static void main (String [] args)
	{
	char [] letters={ 'H','e','l','l','o',32,'W','o','r','l','d','!','0' };
                // Zero used as terminator
	String s$="";
	int eye=0;
	while (letters[eye]!='0')
		{
		s$=s$+letters[eye];
		eye=eye+1;
		}
		System.out.println(s$);
	}
}

Surely this would be easy to convert to C/C++? Apparently, some people don't think so.

Regards,

Shaun.

>>Surely this would be easy to convert to C/C++? Apparently, some people don't think so.

Anyone with any knowledge of C++ can convert that. I'm not going to though, just in case this is an elaborate trick to get some simple homework done for free. Not saying that's the case, but its amazing what things that some lazy, pathetic, bottom-feeding students do to get things done without effort. Good luck with the paper though...

In that case dont bother asking on boards - you will more likely get a bias position depending on what board you ask on. And as this is a C++ board and everyone knows that Java a weak-arsed knock-off for people that cant control resources then you might not get the answers that would help from here.

A good place to start is here - Comparison of Java and C++ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The syntax of the language, in my view, plays a minimal role in user preferences. The syntax is conditioned by the language semantics and rules, where the real decision whether one "likes" or "doesn't like" a language eventually takes place. And this process is largely unconscious.

I'm discarding here any user who simply decides to not like a programming language at first sight, or users whose decision is founded only after intensive use and study. I'm talking about the generality of programmers; the majority that eventually dabbles in another programming language and decides whether they like it or not. Those other two groups don't particularly interest me. The first group is populated by the ignorant and may serve other type of studies, probably not this one. While the second group is small enough and their opinions specialized enough for their opinion to matter little. Although it is exactly this group and their opinions, that after being properly misinterpreted, eventually influence the decisions of others.

Anyways, the decision whether someone likes a language or not shouldn't ever give rise to a debate on whether that language is better than some other. And this is where the problem lies. Not that people prefer a certain language, but that people insistingly connect their liking of things to those things being better than other things. (Particularly, on the field of technology, this has a tremendous negative impact on innovation, in my opinion. But that would be another debate). This happens, in my opinion, because of a natural tendency to justify our likings to ourselves; to give them some kind of validity that can be measured somehow.

The liking or not liking of a programming language is at the very best no more than a freudian process. It's what makes us tick. There's nothing particularly special about it that can't be answered the same way if we ask someone what color they like more. What's perhaps more interesting is to try and understand why, at the face of so much evidence that about all programming languages have their specific domain where they excel as tools, and that most languages generally perform their duty on most other domains, perfectly sane, intelligent, technology-able programmers insist on connecting their preferences with such terms as "this is better than that", "that is a toy language", "that is a useless language", "this is the best language".

Originally Posted by Shaun_B

not that I'm wanting to get into language wars or anything - but particularly the psychology of language: why do people think that the syntax is more important than the underlying programming principles and logic?

Maybe you should read Mario's post above and carefully decide if you really think this is something that merits a university paper. Consider that you will find ZERO serious sources on this topic, and most likely no sources at all beyond absurd discussion board threads.

Also, I cannot see how you would approach this in a way that is not completely arbitrary and subjective, or how you are going to make it seem in any way relevant.

Surely this would be easy to convert to C/C++?

Surely it would be.

Apparently, some people don't think so.

I suppose that depends on what you mean by "convert". If you mean it has to accomplish the same task, it would be ridiculous to say it could not. If you mean it has to create a method for a Java class, obviously you cannot do that in any language except Java. In between those two answers you will find a range of answers that are begged by how exactly you ask the question.

Begging the question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Why do people think that the syntax is more important than the underlying programming principles and logic?" is almost certainly a question that begs. I think you have some kind of point you are trying to prove -- eg, that people choose what language to use because they like the syntax. Hard to prove or disprove, and in any case it does not really make any sense to oppose this to the concept of "underlying programming principles and logic" unless what you are really trying to say is:

"Some people obviously prefer syntax to logic. Why?"

Hard to see how you are going to answer that without just saying "because they are wrong-headed and don't know any better", which means you are not asking a question at all, you're involved in marketing style rhetoric ("Why would someone drive a car that is not a Ford?"). Maybe an okay commercial, but as a term paper I would say you would be lucky to find a passing grade in this.

Originally Posted by Shaun_B

The paper is based on the psychology of programming languages, I'm not interested in the languages themselves as such.

Have you discussed it with your professor?

You have a very bad idea. Please don't do this. It is so close to meaningless the only thing you can do with it is just ramble on for a few pages making up opinions. I seem to recall that writing papers in uni is suppose to demonstrate certain skills...

Originally Posted by MK27

[...]

Been a while, MK. Where have you been man? Hope all is well.

Not that I have any reason to miss you, you jerk. But I did

Originally Posted by Mario F.

Been a while, MK. Where have you been man?

Hiding, and preparing my revenge

Not that I have any reason to miss you, you jerk. But I did

I really like this place too for some crazy reason xP

Well, it's good to see you.