Thread: Tough Yanks

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Well done on the Yanks. First place on their group ahead of England. An historical day on USA football, or soccer as you call it. It was a tough group. To see USA jump from 3rd place to 1st in their group on the very last minutes of the game was quite amazing. And by finishing 1st they avoided Germany and will be playing Ghana on the next round. An opponent they shown they can beat.
    Yeah, they did quite well, I think. Too bad the referee sucked so badly. The goal he didn't count was completely legal, he didn't allow the game to be continued when the US were having a quite interesting attack and the opponent fouled one of them (but the attack kept going) - and he didn't even give a card! I've seen about 4 offsides that weren't (on both sides).

    They were lucky (though they deserved it) to win the match after all.

    Too bad Serbia wasn't lucky enough to get the penalty where they should have - if they'd have gotten it and scored, they would've been qualified...


    I support the Netherlands first, as I live there. I support the US next, because I love the country and would love to move there if I ever can.

  2. #17
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    The umpiring at the World Cup has put soccer back at least 8 years in Australia.

    We are joking that it is similar to wrestling as; lots of the players are writhing on the ground pretending to be hurt and the ref knows the result before the match starts.

    Quote Originally Posted by EVOEx View Post
    Too bad Serbia wasn't lucky enough to get the penalty where they should have - if they'd have gotten it and scored, they would've been qualified...
    Except according to the rules published on FIFA's web it was not a penalty as it was a 'ball to hand' not a 'handball' (as a hand ball has to be deliberate).

    Just because the ball touches your arm in the 6 yard box does not mean that it is an automatic penalty.
    Cahill was facing the other way and the Serbian player headed the ball into his arm (before he could react), clearly not a deliberate use of the arm to play the ball (and so play on).

    Similar to Kewell's sending off. he clearly tries to chest the ball away but it hits his arm (which is in its natural position by his side).
    As Kewell reacted it is not 'ball to hand'.
    The ref should have awarded a penalty and _possibly_ a yellow. In no way did Kewell's actions deserve all three of a sending off, a penalty and a suspension.

    Pity that the Serbian coach (and the Italian ref who sent Kewell off) did not know the actual rules of the game (or choose to ignore the rules).
    Last edited by novacain; 06-25-2010 at 12:22 AM.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
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    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by novacain View Post
    Except according to the rules published on FIFA's web it was not a penalty as it was a 'ball to hand' not a 'handball' (as a hand ball has to be deliberate).
    I don't know about the FIFA, but I do know that according to normal rules a handball would be a penalty and a red card, while a ball-to-hand (as you call it) that does have a lot of influence and could have been avoided is given a penalty as well (possibly with a yellow card).

    In the game of the Netherlands vs Cameroon yesterday, one of the Dutch players jumped up after a free kick. His arms were up to put more force to the jump, but the ball went straight to his arm. There wasn't anything he could do due to the speed, but his arms were in an "unsafe" position where they might influence the games, which it did. And yes, it was a penalty for Cameroon.

    For Serbia it was the same: the guys arms weren't down and the fact that the ball touched his arm changed direction of the ball - maybe otherwise a player by Serbia would have been able to receive the ball and score... As his arms weren't by his side, this should have been a penalty.

    Not just according to me, but also according to pretty much everyone talking about the game afterwards I've seen - the actual experts.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVOEx View Post
    I don't know about the FIFA,
    Seeing it is the FIFA World Cup, played under FIFA rules.....

    Quote Originally Posted by EVOEx View Post
    I do know that according to normal rules a handball would be a penalty and a red card, while a ball-to-hand (as you call it) that does have a lot of influence and could have been avoided is given a penalty as well (possibly with a yellow card).
    Could you provide a link. Because those were the rules last century...

    Quote Originally Posted by EVOEx View Post
    For Serbia it was the same: the guys arms weren't down and the fact that the ball touched his arm changed direction of the ball - maybe otherwise a player by Serbia would have been able to receive the ball and score... As his arms weren't by his side, this should have been a penalty.
    I watched the game live. It was clearly not a penalty. Cahill and the Serb both jumped up, the Serb headed the ball into Cahill's arm from approx 60cm / 2 feet (and Cahill was facing the other way and had no chance to avoid it) and the Serb was clearly not having a shot at goal.

    If the game was played by your interpretation of the rules then all I ahve to do is kick the ball into a defenders arm in the box (who has no chance to get out of the way) to get a penalty, the defender gets sent off and is also suspended.

    Much better than if I just kick a goal...

    Does that seem right?
    Last edited by novacain; 06-25-2010 at 02:40 AM.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  5. #20
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    Now let me show you the foul that caused the penalty in the Dutch game:
    YouTube - Netherlands - Cameroon Van der Vaart Handball In Goalie Box 24/06/2010

    You're going to tell me that was deliberate? It wasn't, obviously. The referee definitely didn't think so, otherwise it would have been a red card without any doubt.

    However, his arm was, accidentally, on the wrong place that highly influenced the game. If his hands are like that and you can shoot against it then, yes, that's useful as it can very well be a penalty, if it influences the game. Just like it did at the Serbia.

    You're right, I can't find anything about it in the FIFA rules, but I can find that if this was a deliberate action it would have been a direct red card...

  6. #21
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    I did not see that game.

    IMO the arm was moving towards the ball, not in a natural position and if the arm was not in that position the shot on goal would not have been blocked by that player.

    Given the speed of the ball I would have given a yellow and a penalty (but I have the opportunity to watch each incident repeatedly in slow motion before deciding.)

    Have a look at the red card given to Kewell.

    Consider both incidents with the FIFA rules below.

    Do you think that the umpiring is consistent?

    Kewell red card Aus v Ghana
    The view from behind the goals is better but I could not find a video.
    That penalty made it 1 -1. Australia was clearly dominating and even with 10 men continued to look the more likely to win until it ended at 1 - 1. Australia finished 3rd, only on goal difference, to Ghana.

    The Serbian v Aus incident was nothing like either of those incidents.
    Two players jumped for a ball, the Serb was behind the Aussie and headed it directly into the Aus arm from 2 feet away.
    It was not a shot on goal, the Aussie could not see the ball coming and had no chance to get his arm out of the way.


    Quote Originally Posted by FIFA Rules pg 35
    A direct free kick is also awarded...

    ...handles the ball deliberately.

    [A penalty kick is awarded if any of the above ten offences is committed by
    a player inside his own penalty area]

    Sending Off Offences
    ....
    denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity
    by deliberately handling the ball


    Handling the Ball [pg 111]
    Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with
    the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into
    consideration:
    • the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
    • the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
    • the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an
    infringement
    • touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.)
    counts as an infringement
    • hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) counts as an
    infringement
    Last edited by novacain; 06-25-2010 at 10:03 PM.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  7. #22
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    I recently found out that it's "futbol," not "football."
    Staying away from General.

  8. #23
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    I recently found out that it's "futbol," not "football."
    In spanish, it is. Portuguese too if I'm not mistaken. But most languages have their localized spellings. Ie, German is Fuball (pronounced "foosball" like the table game).

    And I found it interesting while using google translate that despite our bad rap, the United States is not the only country to call the sport soccer. The romanization of the Chinese word for example is "Zqi" which sounds surprisingly like "soccer". Of course, some of those European countries are just really non-conformist - the Italians apparently call it "calcio."
    Consider this post signed

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernt View Post
    Of course, some of those European countries are just really non-conformist - the Italians apparently call it "calcio."
    As you need to be quite agile and able to sustain a foul or two (although not looking at current players - a gust of wind is enough to set off the tears ), you need strong bones...
    So you should drink lots of milk in your diet prior to play...
    Milk contains calcium...
    Calcio.

    I like stories

  10. #25
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernt View Post
    In spanish, it is. Portuguese too if I'm not mistaken.
    In Portuguese is futebol.

    Quote Originally Posted by SMurf View Post
    As you need to be quite agile and able to sustain a foul or two (although not looking at current players - a gust of wind is enough to set off the tears ), you need strong bones...
    Calcio means kick. But I saw what you did.

    You are right. The behavior of the game players has changed through the years and one of the most sad and pathetic forms is trying to draw fouls and yellow or red cards to the opposing team by simulating or exaggerating the physical contact. It's my least appreciated aspect of football. Other sports don't display this behavior so much. One of the reasons I actually don't like national football (soccer). I'm a fan of the World Cup. But can't stand national leagues football of any kind.

    As for the various sports known as football throughout the world, there's two I have a lot of love for. Rugby and Australian Football. I follow these games as much as I can. Aussie footy especially. As for American Football, it is in the very bottom of the list. I find the game incredibly stupid and the players outfit clearly absurd. Those ladies and their mattresses wouldn't last 5 minutes on the Aussie's AFL or the English Rugby Union (I said Union; the Rugby League is equally embarrassing to watch).
    Last edited by Mario F.; 06-26-2010 at 10:23 AM.
    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  11. #26
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    I played soccer in my youth. My team was the Green Machines.
    Jaden's father was the coach.
    Staying away from General.

  12. #27
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    "Zqi" doesn't sound anything like "soccer" in Chinese .

    It's not a phonetic translation either. Entirely unrelated.

    "Z" means foot, and "qi" means ball. Both "characters" were around long before soccer was introduced to China.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    As for the various sports known as football throughout the world, there's two I have a lot of love for. Rugby and Australian Football. I follow these games as much as I can. Aussie footy especially.
    Do you follow a particular team?
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  14. #29
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Port Adelaide is my team. I also sympathize with the West Coast Eagles and as a true Port Power fan I can't stand the Crows. It's the way I was indoctrinated when I was living in South Adelaide

    I still have my 2004 home games season ticket and the premiership guernsey. Also went to a buffet with the players that year where I met Tredrea, Mathew Primus and others. Bloody great season for the Power.
    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  15. #30
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    "Zqi" doesn't sound anything like "soccer" in Chinese .
    Well, I'm no expert in Chinese...
    But I was going on the idea that it was like "soo koo" - so a soft Z sound, a short U sound, and a consonant "Qi" like a "Qu". It was only speculation though, and I was fairly convinced that it was a phonetic translation.

    The behavior of the game players has changed through the years and one of the most sad and pathetic forms is trying to draw fouls and yellow or red cards to the opposing team by simulating or exaggerating the physical contact. It's my least appreciated aspect of football. Other sports don't display this behavior so much.
    Sounds exactly like American Basketball.
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