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  1. #1
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpaulgib View Post
    I really do get it. I just think it's unfair to paint Windows in this light like it's the most junk thing in the world. I've yet to see how it's that bad for most people. And I would love to see Linux get in the game and take up a good portion of the market and have the right resources easily at my disposal.

    I bet you guys couldn't even agree on a distro if I asked you which one was best.
    Like I said before, the distro's are 99% identical once you understand the system. I believe most of them were conceived for one of two reasons:
    1) some bunch of reasonably curious and capable people thot it would be an interesting and beneficial pastime
    2) politics within the community WRT what the platform "is about"

    Anyway, glad you weren't upset by my last screed I'm perhaps in a minority of linux users in believing that it will be bad for it in the long run to "popularize" itself too much. I think it already has a robust and sustainable user base and that people will continue to be attracted to it in the future just like they were in the past. There is no need to try and pitch it or attract even more people. Like I said, there are no shareholders who will benefit, it's not a stock you can purchase, so achieving a greater market share is just a macho goal.

    I think the problems you think might be corrected by attending to such a goal are not really problems with the system, they are just because you are new to it. This is not to say that there are no problems. Consider that "linux" of course refers to the kernel and the history of linux kernel development is unprecedented. But the issues there have very little to do with ease of use desktop-y issues, and which distro does what how. In reality, it's those things that have made the platform the success that it is. The desktop is just a side show.

    Quote Originally Posted by kermit View Post
    I think I can agree with you on some of this. I actually wouldn't recommend Linux to anyone.
    I've said this here before a few times. Well, I might recommend it to someone in particular, but in general, no way. I have friends who have windows computers at home and the whole family uses them and such and I'd be nuts to think I'd be doing them a favor by recommending they switch to linux.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpaulgib View Post
    Since when did Redhat cost money? Looks like they jumped the boat. I ran Redhat all through high school on my desktop.
    They forked into fedora, which is more or less the same thing, and kept the brandname for Redhat, which the money you pay is for support. It's for businesses, servers, that kind of stuff. They haven't really jumped any boats. Redhat is still (by necessity) all GPL licensed software, so there is nothing illegal about "pirating" it. Then you get no support, of course, which might be hassle if you are running a commercial server and cannot afford me (actually you could probably afford me, but get the picture). This is what "not free as in beer means". Recently GNU and the FSF have dropped the term "open source" and gone with the more specific "free software". Sometimes the term "libre" is used because I believe in the romance languages there are two words for "free", with slightly different connotations. One of them is where we get liberated. So free as in "out of jail" and not necessarily "cost $0". The jail here AFAICT has to do with intellectual property laws, which GNU is dead set against particularly as it has come to be applied to software. The goal nothing has whether or not a distro wants to charge money. That's totally permissible.

    As an analogy, think what would happen if musicians had to actually perform instead of just collecting royalties, because all their recorded material was freely reproducible under law. Would fewer musicians become multi-millionaires for little or no reason? Yes. It would be very hard to make all that money if you actually had to work for it. Would the quality of music (not it's stock market value) in general be better? Almost certainly, because only people who really wanted to work as performing musicians would stick it out.

    If only someone had the gumption and foresight to foresee what pure greed would do to "the entertainment industry", we'd probably be living in a much more interesting world. So thank the universe for GNU/linux! Alternative philosophies.
    Last edited by MK27; 05-18-2010 at 07:00 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  2. #2
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    If only someone had the gumption and foresight to foresee what pure greed would do to "the entertainment industry", we'd probably be living in a much more interesting world. So thank the universe for GNU/linux! Alternative philosophies.
    I laugh and my first thought is to the Animal Farm; human nature, being what it is.

    What a load of crap, MK.
    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  3. #3
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    What a load of crap, MK.
    As usual, of course. I'm not waving a torrent freak flag or anything, I actually don't bother with that, but I do think the idea that there is "a good reason" why Joe Average who makes $15 an hour needs to send money to the estate of Frank Sinatra is a REAL LOAD OF CRAP. Pre-recorded entertainment should not be sold for money when 50% of the world's population lives on less than $2.50 a day. Period. If you want to get on stage and work, that's fine, but as for the rest of the BS, those people are not artists, they're PIGS. So I'd totally encourage people to steal anything and send the price on the sticker to OXFAM instead. That's morality.

    Of course, IMO Joe Average would be better off learning to play guitar for himself. Use those mind muscles, etc. vs. just living in the womb of consumer media forever and ever.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  4. #4
    Registered User lpaulgib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    As usual, of course. I'm not waving a torrent freak flag or anything, I actually don't bother with that, but I do think the idea that there is "a good reason" why Joe Average who makes $15 an hour needs to send money to the estate of Frank Sinatra is a REAL LOAD OF CRAP. Pre-recorded entertainment should not be sold for money when 50% of the world's population lives on less than $2.50 a day. Period. If you want to get on stage and work, that's fine, but as for the rest of the BS, those people are not artists, they're PIGS. So I'd totally encourage people to steal anything and send the price on the sticker to OXFAM instead. That's morality.

    Of course, IMO Joe Average would be better off learning to play guitar for himself. Use those mind muscles, etc. vs. just living in the womb of consumer media forever and ever.


    How else are they to pay for their cocaine habits, if not through price gouging music on cds?

  5. #5
    ... kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    I'm perhaps in a minority of linux users in believing that it will be bad for it in the long run to "popularize" itself too much. I think it already has a robust and sustainable user base and that people will continue to be attracted to it in the future just like they were in the past. There is no need to try and pitch it or attract even more people. Like I said, there are no shareholders who will benefit, it's not a stock you can purchase, so achieving a greater market share is just a macho goal.
    I guess I am part of that minority too. To me, a Linux system is a tool that I use. Others who need what that system can offer will use it too. If you don't need it, forget about it, which seems to come back to lpaulgib was getting at. Of course good luck trying to pin down what "need" is.. I "need" my 411 script and phone-book file (ala The UNIX Programming Environment by Brian W. Kernighan and Rob Pike), and for that simple one line script alone, I refuse to do without some kind of Unix like system to use.

  6. #6
    Registered User lpaulgib's Avatar
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    MK, i just did 4 years Marine Corps infantry. You'd have to try hard to hurt my feelings.

    It is amazing at what people pour their money into. Education has been put on a backburner to entertainment and in general... stupid ......... It's rather depressing watching our society sink under stuff like Jersey Shores, Brett Michael reality shows, et cetera. But America is based on the consumer. And as I said earlier, most of you people, and hopefully me one day, will be working for the consumer.

    The idea of free software is great... if done right. Without money though, the resources available to develop these programs and OS's aren't found. How long until websites asking for donations turn to subscription support. From there, a small fee for the software is the next step.

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