Thread: Difference between C++ and VC++?

I'm not sure what your friend has been smoking...

C++ is a language.
Visual C++ is a specific compiler for the C++ language.

"using namespace" is part of the C++ language.

VC++ compiles to machine code.

Originally Posted by cpjust

I'm not sure what your friend has been smoking...

C++ is a language.
Visual C++ is a specific compiler for the C++ language.

"using namespace" is part of the C++ language.

VC++ compiles to machine code.

Ha ha, he gave up smoking a while back...

But anyway, after speaking to my friend again, and finding out some stuff on the internet, actually they ARE different. As one person said:

"So if you want to learn C++, you have two choices: Learn C++/CLI, which limits you to a MS-only language which yes, generates MSIL instead of native machine code, and requires .NET to run, and generally isn't worth the bother because if you're going to take a dependency on .NET anyway, why not write in C#?"

Also, bearing in mind C++ is 20+ years-old, and so before OO, and therefore before namespaces.

Anyway, I seem to have found what I was looking for, but thanks for the help.

Originally Posted by #include Jack

"So if you want to learn C++, you have two choices: Learn C++/CLI, which limits you to a MS-only language which yes, generates MSIL instead of native machine code, and requires .NET to run, and generally isn't worth the bother because if you're going to take a dependency on .NET anyway, why not write in C#?"

C++/CLI is your VC++. And then, for that matter, what was your second choice?

EDIT: Found the original here. And I think that's a pretty good answer.

EDIT EDIT: I was ignoring the bit about namespaces, because anyone who actually believes what you typed is beyond saving, but for the record: no C++ is not "before namespaces".

Originally Posted by #include Jack

But anyway, after speaking to my friend again, and finding out some stuff on the internet, actually they ARE different. As one person said:

"So if you want to learn C++, you have two choices: Learn C++/CLI, which limits you to a MS-only language which yes, generates MSIL instead of native machine code, and requires .NET to run

You need to make up your mind whether you are talking about "VC++" or C++/CLI The trouble is that "VC++" is not very specific: maybe you're talking about a Microsoft compiler for C++ (MSVC), or maybe you're talking about C++ with MSVC specific language extensions, or as it turns out... maybe you're talking about C++/CLI.

Originally Posted by #include Jack

Also, bearing in mind C++ is 20+ years-old, and so before OO, and therefore before namespaces.

It is true that C++ is more than two decades old. It is also true that namespaces were only introduced maybe a decade after the first C++ implementation. However, as has been stated, namespaces are part of standard C++. Furthermore, the statement that C++ was invented before OO is obviously false. There is also the implication that namespaces are a consequence of OO: such an implication is also false.

Originally Posted by #include Jack

Ha ha, he gave up smoking a while back...

But anyway, after speaking to my friend again, and finding out some stuff on the internet, actually they ARE different. As one person said:

"So if you want to learn C++, you have two choices: Learn C++/CLI, which limits you to a MS-only language which yes, generates MSIL instead of native machine code, and requires .NET to run, and generally isn't worth the bother because if you're going to take a dependency on .NET anyway, why not write in C#?"

Also, bearing in mind C++ is 20+ years-old, and so before OO, and therefore before namespaces.

Anyway, I seem to have found what I was looking for, but thanks for the help.

No program I've ever written with VC++ has ever needed .NET to be installed.
You can tell it to write MSIL code instead of machine code, but I always compile to machine code.

I don't know if namespaces were part of the original (pre-standard) C++ compiler, but they're definitely in the C++ standard. As for it being before OO, I'm pretty sure even the pre-standard C++ had classes, otherwise it would just be C.

Originally Posted by #include Jack

But just for the record: C++ isn't an OO language as it is known today.

No, C++ is an OO language. Modern C++ makes use of "multi-paradigm programming", and OO is certainly one of the programming paradigms involved.

Originally Posted by #include Jack

More is the question of when it is appropriate to use VC++, and why professional programmers in general seem to avoid the VC++ compiler.

Until you have defined what exactly you mean by "VC++", this "question" is futile. Furthermore, I was not aware that "professional programmers in general seem to avoid the VC++ compiler".

Originally Posted by #include Jack

But as no one seems able to answer my original question

That is not very fair: your original question is not well specified, because as I said, "VC++" is not well defined. If you mean to compare standard C++ to C++ with Microsoft compiler extensions, then we certainly can help you (though I wonder how much good that will do when you do not even know C++ in the first place).

Again, VC++ is usually the "name" of the Microsoft C++ compiler. That is, a compiler for C++, not C++/CLI, not VB, not C#, etc. Pure 100% C++.
Modern C++ has evolved a lot since its original implementation, of course, but I don't see what that to do with anything. Modern C++ is a very powerful OOP language, among other things. You won't find much you can in other languages that you cannot do in C++.

And the last question is still too vague for us to answer (given your initial question). What exactly do you want to do? Do you want to learn a specific language? Do you want to know what the best language is for a given task? That should be the first thing to answer.

Originally Posted by #include Jack

I suppose the fault lies with me - it's very difficult for someone just starting to program to grasp the different concepts of C++ as there seems to be no set definitive

No problem.

Originally Posted by #include Jack

From what I'm aware of, the original C++ wasn't OO in the sense that modern C++ is. It was not possible to write a pure OO program with it.

This depends on what you mean by "pure OO". OOP can be used even in C, which does not have any native support for inheritance and polymorphism. Yet, as far as I know, inheritance and polymorphism support was provided from the earliest versions of C++, so in that sense it has always been possible "to write a pure OO program with it".

Originally Posted by #include Jack

As for VC++, I am simply referring to, as you put it, Microsoft's compiler extensions; the Visual Express compilers. When I said professional programmers seem to avoid it, I meant it in the sense VC++ compiles down to MSIL, or parts of it anyway - and so programmers wanting to use .NET would choose C# over VC++.

You might want to read Stroustrup's answer to the FAQ What do you think of C++/CLI? Now, the compiler extensions that I was talking about are those that are of a much smaller scale: they add just a few language features, and the resulting program would not be compiled to MSIL. C++/CLI involves extending C++ on a much larger scale. Either way, there is a common base of standard C++.

Originally Posted by #include Jack

I think I should change my question to - what is best for a novice programmer wanting to learn sound principles and disciplines. Where should I start?

Personally, I would suggest that you start by learning Python, and then use Python to develop programming problem solving skills. On the other hand, if you are interested in learning C++, then I would suggest that you work through Glassborow's You Can Do It! or Koenig and Moo's Accelerated C++: you would learn standard C++ this way, and again use it to develop programming problem solving skills. If you want to pick up C++/CLI later, this foundation would be beneficial, while not constraining you to something too specific.

Ultimately, it is not just about learning a programming language, but about learning how to program to solve problems (which includes things like learning about data structures and algorithms). I would not be so concerned about the nitty gritty details of language and paradigm differences before you start; once you have something, you can acquire another.

Visual C++ is a compiler, not a language.
C++ is a language, not a compiler.

Comparing C++ to VC++ is like comparing Apples to Apple Pies.

And again, VC++ CAN compile to MSIL or it can compile to machine code; it just depends on what compiler settings you use.

Originally Posted by cpjust

And again, VC++ CAN compile to MSIL or it can compile to machine code; it just depends on what compiler settings you use.

Honestly, I think it's better to separate that claim into languages.
C++ compiles to native code. Period. VC++ is the compiler for C++.
C++/CLI (another language) compiles to MSIL. Period. Another compiler in the Visual Studio toolset does this compilation. Regardless if it's the same "compiler", they're still two different languages, so no mere "setting" changes this behavior. The setting switches languages.