New AI contest: suggestions?

[Sang-drax]

OK, I'm thinking of hosting a new AI tournament like this one:
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/showthread.php?t=58519

Do you have any game suggestions? Connect four was chosen because it is very easy to implement a minmax algorithm for, so now perhaps it's time for a game where minmax isn't very useful (many possible moves each turn).

The game should be reasonable simple to play and write an engine for.

[pianorain]

I don't know that much about AI algorithms, but from what I've read, minmax works best when there is no random factor. What about a game that did involve a random factor, such as Blackjack or Backgammon?

[edit]Heh...or Mornington Crescent.

[PJYelton]

Backgammon is good. It's logical enough for programming and plenty of strategy but with enough chance to make minmax close to worthless. I'd be afraid of not getting enough entries for it though. I think Blackjack would be a little too simple IMO, everyones program's would be nearly the same resulting in pure luck taking over.

Another good simple game is Dots, but unfortunately that would definately be a minmax game.

I dunno, I'm blanking on ideas. Battleship or yahtzee? Same problems as Blackjack I think. Bah, I'll keep thinking about it.

[Thantos]

Multideck blackjack. Would be fun to see the card counting algorithms

To make it better make it casino style were everyone plays against the dealer. You start with a set amount of money and you are out when you lose your money.

That would give you lots of paths to consider (like when to split etc)

[pianorain]

I think Blackjack would be a little too simple IMO, everyones program's would be nearly the same resulting in pure luck taking over.

I don't think all the programs would be that similar. Take into account a betting strategy, and it seems that there is plenty of room for variation.

To make it better make it casino style were everyone plays against the dealer. You start with a set amount of money and you are out when you lose your money.

That would give you lots of paths to consider (like when to split etc)

Aye, this is what I meant. Not just simple blackjack.

[Sang-drax]

Card games are interesting...
Hold 'em or Black Jack wouldn't be too hard to implement, I guess.

I've never played backgammon...

Mornington Crescent... well, I want many players participating and that game requires advanced algorithms even to only be able to follow the rules. I guess we could use the War Provision Rationing Rules of 1942 to make things simpler, but where's the fun in that?

[PJYelton]

I don't think all the programs would be that similar. Take into account a betting strategy, and it seems that there is plenty of room for variation.

Good point. I'm all for this, it would be fun. Something like running 1000 hands and the winner of the round is the one with the most money and overall winner is the one who wins the most rounds. Maybe even let us tweak our algorithms a little bit in between rounds. We'd get a lot more entries for this than Hold'em I'm guessing.

I remember writing a QBasic blackjack program that cardcounted about fifteen years ago, I'll have to see if I can find it

[edit] I agree with Thantos, it would have to be against a casino dealer [/edit]

[pianorain]

Mornington Crescent... well, I want many players participating and that game requires advanced algorithms even to only be able to follow the rules. I guess we could use the War Provision Rationing Rules of 1942 to make things simpler, but where's the fun in that?

I agree completely. Such an oversimplification of the rules would greatly detract from the complexities.

[Quantum1024]

I'll go learn the rules of blackjack when this contest gets started.

[PJYelton]

I agree completely. Such an oversimplification of the rules would greatly detract from the complexities.

Aye, but to quote Sir Edward Pollack when he first petitioned for the addition of the War Rationing Rules back in 1942, "Without simplifying those rules which themselves have overcomplicated the game, one cannot truly appreciate the true complexity that is Mornington Crescent." The guy was a quack though.

[IfYouSaySo]

Blackjack should be relatively easy. I would be willing to compete.

[Darryl]

I think Risk would be a good game to try, fairly easy to implement, simple rules, elements of luck, and a lot of strategy. I like Risk because, though luck plays a role, but a good strategy could beat all but the "extremely" lucky.

[Sang-drax]

I don't know about Risk being easy to implement. Keep in mind that the last competition was connect four.

[The Brain]

I vote for texax holdem'.. one human player vs. 3 to 5 computer players


or how about spades.. with a computer partner.. vs. 2 other computer players

[Sang-drax]

one human player

No human players, this is an AI contest.