Are C, and ANSI C the same?

**Elysia** · 08-29-2011

Then you should give up on building an operating system. At least for now.
I would say the first step is to learn a programming language. Any programming language. C is hard, and probably not a wise starting point for you in that case.
Get a good book, do exercises and do programming projects to learn a language. If you can't do it on your own, take some lessons.
Then start getting into computer science. You will need it.

Only when you feel you have a really good grasp on computer science can you think of building an operating system.

**php111** · 08-29-2011

What would be the most easiest programming language? What would be a really good book on an easy to use programming language? I rather learn everything on my own besides taking lessons. Could it be done on my own without lessons?

**manasij7479** · 08-29-2011

Originally Posted by php111

Could it be done on my own without lessons?

Learning a language ...yes..(but you need to put in quite a bit of effort)
Building an OS... most probably not.

**anduril462** · 08-29-2011

Originally Posted by php111

What would be the most easiest programming language? What would be a really good book on an easy to use programming language? I rather learn everything on my own besides taking lessons. Could it be done on my own without lessons?

Yes, it can be done on your own, but not if you keep looking for a magic solution. It's going to require lots and lots of very hard work, no matter what language you pick. C is probably not the best language for beginners, but it's certainly more than good enough. Why are you so averse to taking lessons or going to school?

You still aren't ready to program. Buy some basic PC and Windows books, and learn the terminology. Learn what "the desktop" is. Buy a Linux book, and learn what Linux is and isn't. Learn that "*nix" is not an OS, but a term used for a whole "family" of OSes. Buy a "C for Dummies" book (that is not meant as an insult), or a very very basic intro book, and learn the basics. Write your hello world, basic loops and file handling programs. Buy some more advanced books or textbooks and do all the examples, tweaking and experimenting. Read lots and lots and lots, and experiment even more. You will fail a lot, and that is good, because failure is where you learn. Plan on 6 months to a year, or more, of hard work before you can write something even mildly interesting or complex. Plan on 5-10 years of very very hard work and dedication before you can hack up even a crappy OS.

**Elysia** · 08-29-2011

What I think is most important before even thinking of starting to build an OS is to learn what it is, how to implement one, and why just shooting for C isn't going to cut it.
There are a wide variety of operating systems out there, and they're not all written in C. When you're advanced enough, you should research operating systems.
Operating systems such as nix* and Windows were written in C simply because there was no good alternative at the time. Today's world is different.
If you're going to write an OS, you may as well learn what modern tools can do for the foundation of the OS. It will be some assembly, probably C, and a whole lot more.
When you are advanced enough to understand what that means and to use them properly to implement a basic OS, then is the time to start trying it.

**~~CommonTater~~** · 08-29-2011

Originally Posted by php111

What would be the most easiest programming language? What would be a really good book on an easy to use programming language? I rather learn everything on my own besides taking lessons. Could it be done on my own without lessons?

Programming languages aren't (generally) hard to learn... C has a vocabulary of less than 60 words.

Just set yourself down with a good book and a standards based compiler and work through the book page by page, type up and compile all the examples, play with them, break them, fix them, do the same with the exercises and quizzes... when you understand page 1, you can proceed to page 2... It will sink in if you approach it as a study project...

Compiler wise I generally recommend Pelles C.. it's free, it's very stable, it is up to date, it comes ready to go with a very nice IDE and it has one of the best help files you'll ever see. All non-ISO C-99 functions are identified and marked with leading underscores so it's easy to keep track of what's what...

Now easy lessons, easy compiler... all good.

But... Programming itself --the general practice-- is not easy to learn. It's about 50% analytical skill understanding the problem you are trying to solve, 25% looking stuff up because nobody can even begin to memorize it, and about 25% time at the keyboard. There is no programmer on the face of this earth who can code the solution to a problem he or she does not understand...

In the end it's a matter of applying yourself to the task...

**php111** · 08-29-2011

@CommonTater,

Thank you so much for all the info. I'll try ISO C-99 a try. I don't want to read a Dummies book. Does C Primer Plus book cover the ISO C-99, or does it cover basic C? About the Pelles C, does it compile ISO C-99, or non-ISO C-99?

**~~CommonTater~~** · 08-29-2011

Originally Posted by php111

@CommonTater,

Thank you so much for all the info. I'll try ISO C-99 a try. I don't want to read a Dummies book. Does C Primer Plus book cover the ISO C-99, or does it cover basic C?

Most books are pretty generic since the authors will not know what compiler you are using. Learn the basics from the book then keep right on learning with standards based compilers. You will eventually fine tune yourself to the standards.

About the Pelles C, does it compile ISO C-99, or non-ISO C-99?

It's an extended C-99 compiler. It has libraries for both C-99 and others. For example, Pelles C supports structured exception handling, which is not part of the standard. It also comes with a conio library for backwards compatibility with older libraries. It's very complete. As I mentioned before, everything is clearly identified so you won't have to worry about that.... just look it up in the help file. The IDE makes it super easy... just put the text cursor on any keyword or library function name and press F1...

The way I see it, unless you are in a team programming environment where standards are enforced, whatever you have on hand is fair game...

**php111** · 08-29-2011

smorgasbordet - Pelles C

Which one would be right for me to download? How do I use Pelles C?

**~~CommonTater~~** · 08-30-2011

Originally Posted by php111

smorgasbordet - Pelles C

Which one would be right for me to download? How do I use Pelles C?

Download the newest version appropriate for your version of windows...
Seriously this is not that difficult... do a little reading and try a little bit of thinking... You'll figure it out.

As for "how do you use Pelles C"... READ THE HELP FILE!... that's why it's there.

Just about anyone here will be happy to answer a few questions and show you some tricks and tweaks... but I seriously doubt that any of us have the time to nursemaid you through things you can easily figure out on your own.

(Programmers how can't --or worse, won't-- read and study are clearly in the wrong line of work)

**php111** · 08-30-2011

I won't read the help files, because the help files never works for me. It doesn't help me learn.

I have a hard enough time learning from books and tutorials, but I can learn better from books, or even tutorials over a help files. All of my GUI apps that I have, I don't read help files. They don't do me any good.

**manasij7479** · 08-30-2011

Originally Posted by php111

I won't read the help files, because the help files never works for me. It doesn't help me learn.

I have a hard enough time learning from books and tutorials, but I can learn better from books, or even tutorials over a help files. All of my GUI apps that I have, I don't read help files. They don't do me any good.

Then you're never going to learn anything.

**~~CommonTater~~** · 08-30-2011

Originally Posted by php111

I won't read the help files

Then, my friend, you need to look for a new hobby...

I'd guess that about a quarter of a programmer's time is spent "looking stuf up"...
Think about what you're getting into here... the Standard C library is a couple of hundred functions. The Windows API is over 30,000 ... and you expect to do anything more then "Hello World" without looking in the help files???

Really... you gotta give this a lot more thought.

**php111** · 08-30-2011

Since I won't read the help files using C language, and using any compiler. Are there any such programming language out there that anyone could learn that would be pure easy? I know there must be something even if a language isn't out anymore?

Originally Posted by CommonTater

Then, my friend, you need to look for a new hobby...

I'd guess that about a quarter of a programmer's time is spent "looking stuf up"...
Think about what you're getting into here... the Standard C library is a couple of hundred functions. The Windows API is over 30,000 ... and you expect to do anything more then "Hello World" without looking in the help files???

Really... you gotta give this a lot more thought.