Thread: Knowing my math

On more than one occasion I have tried to learn basic math and failed because at the start it all seems logical and I can follow it, but suddenly it's like they are talking ancient hebrew and tell me how logical it all is. That is pretty intimidating, at least for me.

Unfortunately math is always like that. It only makes sense if you get it.

That's why getting someone to teach you is a good idea, because you can get personalized explanations. Different people have different things they are confused about, and books can't cover all possibilities.

Hey Wokzombie, I'm following a blog series at NYT by Steven Strogatz that you might find interesting. It get's updated every monday and is on it's 5th week now. I have it in my RSS feed. Here's the first one:

From Fish to Infinity - Opinionator Blog - NYTimes.com

Originally Posted by MK27

This may also be evidence of the fact that you are not so interested in math.

Funny enough the paradox is that I am interested in math, I find it pretty fascinating.

Originally Posted by MK27

...there are specialized programming fields that no doubt require a lot of math. Probably there are specialized fields of programming that are actually more math than programming.

Guess what? You won't be getting that job!

No thanks I like my sanity, it makes me happy.

Originally Posted by MK27

So far, I don't think anyone has tried to claim that "you must understand algebra and calculus" to learn C. Because you don't.

It's not that I think I must know it for C but as you implied earlier I believe, it's a very useful tool that also comes around quite often, and when it does I would prefer to know what that person is talking about (within reason of course).

Originally Posted by MK27

You do not have to quit programming to study math first.

I'm not planning on doing that, my idea is to do both alongside each other as programming is my goal and math is more of a means to an end, or a utility.

Originally Posted by MK27

Awesome avatar by the way. Looks very Dutch

Thank you =) But I not sure what's Dutch about it. (Is it drug related? )

Originally Posted by Subsonics

Hey Wokzombie, I'm following a blog series at NYT by Steven Strogatz that you might find interesting. It get's updated every monday and is on it's 5th week now. I have it in my RSS feed. Here's the first one:

From Fish to Infinity - Opinionator Blog - NYTimes.com

Whoa, that is pretty damn awesome.

I read the first article, and I thought it was funny how he starts off by saying that he'll be talking about it from an adult perspective and then shows a video from sesame street.

Originally Posted by MK27

Your first post does explicitly say that: "I know enough about simple calculations and tables to get me by with a calculator in the IT world so far, but it's just not enough for C." "something that that can take me from zero to knowing enough to functionally learn C?" -- this is no mere inference of mine.

You are right, I have been a bit double about that.
I didn't necessarily have the idea that C itself requires (a lot of) math, but I am afraid that I will get into trouble when I start reading/using other people's code. The book I borrowed implied I would. (Beginning C by Ivor Horton)

Code:

Me, I keep thinking math will be interesting until I actually start doing it :p 
so I employ a "learn when necessary" approach, and it seems to have worked out okay

Gheh, I've got about the same. I keep finding math interesting until I come across it, then I suddenly notice I find tylenol very interesting as well.

Code:

well the background looks an awful lot like a reference to "A starry night".
Isn't Van Gogh Dutch?  Or do you guys all consider him a traitorous ex-pat? :p

Hey it does! And yeah he was Dutch, but I would have never noticed it since I know very little of the art of painting.

Most people only know of the stereotype that the Dutch are a bunch of mega-liberal people throwing their lives away on drugs, hence I figured it was drug related

Originally Posted by MK27

Looks like a good book, but I bet you won't need much math to finish it (unless there's a section on algorithm analysis, which I didn't see in the contents, and even then the math is pretty simple, you just have to grasp "logarithmic").

If the book required even semi-advanced calculations I would assume they would put it on the cover and I wouldn't even touch it. Well, I'd take a look but I doubt I would really take it as a learning source.

But I did read today that someone thought this books is kind of rich on calculations and that the writer takes some assumptions that you know your way around them, I just can't remember where I read it.
Maybe that's just healthy, but I tempt to avoid it like an infection.

On a side note, since I only borrowed this book and I am still browsing for a book to buy, do you maybe know anything about C Programming: A Modern Approach, 2nd Edition?
These books are very expensive and I do not take the discission lightly.

Originally Posted by MK27

I think the stereotype here is more that they are mega-liberal people who don't have to risk "having their lives thrown away" for smoking weed, because you can't go to jail for it, and (I presume) you can't be discriminated against for doing it, eg. by potential employers.

That's the other side of the stereotype, and in a way even somewhat true.
I think the Dutch might be more liberal in general than a lot of other countries, but we mostly consider ourselves to be sober people (ironic, isn't it? ).

But discrimination against smoking 'certain substances' might be less, but it is very much alive. I'm not too sure if you can get fired the moment your employer finds out, but it can work to your disadvantage.

The only thing that is legal is growing a very small amount in your own home, without lamps. And possession of a small amount in your own home, the rest is 'tolerated' to the extent that you will very unlikely be thrown in jail for possession or smoking small quantities but the police does confiscate it from time to time if they see you smoke it outside and give fines if they keep seeing you do it.
But that's usually just at known public hangouts and with known 'troublemakers'.
In reality I could just go to a coffeeshop right now, buy about 2 grams and walk back while smoking with my friends, no harm done. Not that I smoke it, but I could.

I just wanted to echo what some others have said, that math is no requirement to learning C any more than in other languages IME. There are some programming or related activites that might require it but, it's in my limited experience not specific to C in any way.

I have been looking at learning something about optimization and algorithms, there it's a requirement of some math, (statistics, linear algebra and big-O notation) as well as machine learning with about the same requirements. But as far as I have understood most people use mathlab or octave for machinelearning rather than C, atleast in the initial phase. I'm also in the process of doing some math repetition from school, to pick some of this stuff up. My experience with school math was always that it was backwards to my way of learning. Normaly you would get 1-2 pages of explaination, followed by 20 pages of repetitious calculations, this meant that you could pass an exam (thanks to the volume of exercises) but, without actually understanding what you were doing.

It depends on what kinds of problem you are asked to solve using C.

If you are in some graphics related company, then a project that you are asked to complete might assume you also know the necessary geometry and linear algebra. So any math skills you can bring with you would certainly help.

If you are planning to work in the insurance or pension calculations fields then your statistics knowledge is tapped.

If you are in some financial-related company such as bank, credit card, etc., then you'd be able to get away with a different math skill level.

Learning to programming in C is independent of the depth of knowledge required to succeed in problem solving in various disciplines. C offers the fundamental math operations. It's up to you to be able to express formulas and algorithms effectively. Chances are, in most workplaces there are going to be helpful colleagues who can explain what is needed on paper using lots of pictures, arrows, etc. Even if they can't program themselves.

If you work independently then it is expected that you research whatever is necessary to get the job done. Again, a good C-skill level helps to translate what people describe using their particular area of expertise into a program.

What kinds of programs are you interested in writing?

I highly reccomend Index page • Art of Problem Solving

They have a forum for every levle of math from grade school to post-graduate level math, with literally hundreds if not thousands of people who are always willing to help you learn. Some of the more prolific posters are actually math teachers/professors from around the world.

Wokzombie
If you want to learn coding and math at the same time, I would say any book on Numerical Analysis would do. You'll learn some math and pseudo codes at the same time. Just ignore the proof of convergence and theories for those schemes since they may be over your head. Don't forget to pick up on Linear Algebra.