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Witch_King
08-12-2001, 01:50 AM
Webmaster told me that after this message board reaches 500 posts than it will be promoted to a C# board because by that time the public will have their copies of VS.NET

mithrandir
08-12-2001, 02:08 AM
Microsoft can shove VS.NET up their arse, and XP for that matter.

I read today at www.microsoft.com.au that they because the Australian dollar is performing weakly against the USD, they are increase all prices on software, OSs, etc by
10%!

We only just had a 10% increase on software last year due to the GST (Goods and Services Tax) our government decided to introduce. Now Microsoft want us to pay 20% more that what we were in 1999.

How can they justify this? When is enough money enough?

-KEN-
08-12-2001, 09:23 AM
MODIFIED: got rid of the entire thing...a bit to mean.

Dean, 2 people want the C# board. two. that hardly constitutes destroying the Linux board which more people really want/need.

iain
08-12-2001, 10:45 AM
i dont see why we cant have a Linux AND a C# board.
Also a VS.Net board to keep Dean happy!
A *nix board, beos os2 would all be handy, does anyone code for these?

no-one
08-12-2001, 01:46 PM
no body uses OS2 anymore but nixing the linux board is a little extreme

>i dont see why we cant have a Linux AND a C# board.

me neither...

>Also a VS.Net board to keep Dean happy!

DO NOT SUCUM TO THE EVIL!!!

Fordy
08-12-2001, 02:20 PM
>>Also a VS.Net board to keep Dean happy!

Hey, if he promised to stick to that board and not tout M$ on the General Board - Could be worth it;)

Witch_King
08-12-2001, 02:31 PM
...because right now I have no home!

iain
08-12-2001, 05:47 PM
how about a
"I am a student but dont want to do my work, heres my problem - please code it immedialtly for me, if not sooner" board

and an advertisment board

maybe this way we would keep all the crap and irrelevant posts away from the real boards

-KEN-
08-12-2001, 08:27 PM
Dean, just learn Win32 API. Not everyone is gonna switch to XP so quickly, and if they do there are certain versions that run on PIII's. Also, let's WAIT and see if VS.NET or C# even catch on. For all you know MS will catch a lot of backlash and keep on the more current path. I've been hearing so much from programmers that they're basically revolting against using VS.NET if they have to. Especially the hard-core VB programmers, because they're redefining the language entirely and dropping their support for the old version. Also, as a windows developer, I think it total CRAP that I'd have to learn C# to keep up with MS's rampage to be the first in the 64-bit market. I think more windows developers have the same feelings (espescially if they use VC++ like I do for most things)

Witch_King
08-12-2001, 08:32 PM
KEN, you really need some help.

Go to this link and read this before you say even one more word about .NET:

http://www.softsteel.co.uk/tutorials/dotNet/dotNetIndex.html

-KEN-
08-12-2001, 08:36 PM
Been there, done that. I've followed all of your little links already, and even done some research on google on my own, and know what? I'm still right!

BTW: you don't _need_ C# to program win64. You will be able to do it in _any_ language, just like you can now.

Witch_King
08-12-2001, 08:44 PM
The link in my post above, which I just edited because it was the wrong link at first, does not talk about C#, it describes .NET

-KEN-
08-12-2001, 08:48 PM
I've already seen that before, too. See? I do my homework.

Witch_King
08-12-2001, 08:53 PM
Than you are aware that I am talking about NGWS (Next Generation Windows Services) project. A project who's framework is embedded in all future operating systems starting with WinXP (which I can get of copy of right now if I want). A multi-billion dollar project that was initiated over a six years ago and is just comming into fruitation.

This makes it all the more apparent that you should spend your time learning the definition of 'C' and 'C++' and understanding software development methodologies before any temporary API's. That way you will have to worry much less about the loss of knowledge because in almost all cases the new technology is an improvement on the old implimentation, yet the methodologies are transferred over to the next generation.


Waterfall Methodologies

assembly
procedural


Rapid Application Development Methodologies

object-based
object-oriented
generic

mithrandir
08-13-2001, 02:10 AM
So what you are saying is that MS is simply using a development system more aligned with UML to allow easier development?

Witch_King
08-13-2001, 02:18 AM
The Unified Modelling Language (UML) is an accepted visual language, it is different than .NET however in a theoretical way you can probably compare them, but I'll leave that to your imagination.

This is the link to learn about .NET. It is a short description that will suffice as an introduction. Read parts I and II

http://www.softsteel.co.uk/tutorials/dotNet/dotNetIndex.html

mithrandir
08-13-2001, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the link. The article does a good job of outlining .NET, but until I see it actually being used and being successful I won't believe that it is the be all and end all of development platforms.

iain
08-13-2001, 08:51 AM
it just remains to be seen, but until then can you please stop shouting about how fantastic it is, i dont recall anything by microsoft ever being this great. I think this is just anothe oppurtunity for M$ to redefine all the standards and force poeple into paying millions into thier bank accounts to keep up. Remember not everyone is going to rush and out and buy it.

mix0matt
08-13-2001, 02:50 PM
I agree with iain. Why can't we have both? I would be interested in reading some posts on C# as i do on other sites, but I really like the idea of having a Linux forum. Is there a resource issue here? If that's the case why do we still have DOS board? If you're asking me that's the board that should be eliminated to make room for C#.

Nick
08-13-2001, 05:46 PM
Well, i won't be using XP, it spying gone mad, and have you seen the GUI of windows XP, total rip off of Gnome or KDE, I prefer to program in linux, I hate having to mess around with files just to get things to work (i.e Visual C++ 6.0) with linux it has all the library file you need somewere.

Any way i use Win98 for programming in ASP and RedHat 7 for my C programming.

-ali

Witch_King
08-13-2001, 05:51 PM
I agree with iain. Why can't we have both? I would be interested in reading some posts on C# as i do on other sites, but I really like the idea of having a Linux forum. Is there a resource issue here? If that's the case why do we still have DOS board? If you're asking me that's the board that should be eliminated to make room for C#.


True words like this need to be repeated.

Koshare
09-01-2001, 10:33 PM
OSes dont make enough money to feed the microsoft empire, so they have created tons of different things, most of which have been moderate to extreme failures, and some have been moderate success. here is a list


1. Microsoft games (other than flight simulator which has been around for a while)
2. Microsoft Inet access(marketing lost money on this one)
3. Microsoft J++ (C# beta 1 hehehe, cost them a few million for that blunder)
4. Microsoft Windows < 95 (2.0,3.1,3.11! omg I had used it when I was 8 and booted to dos to play wolfenstein, then wished I knew what Unix was!)
5. Microsoft Xbox (amount and quality of developers is overrated, most developers will release better PC versions shortly after XBox versions)
6. any of a thousand things that were cancelled before full production/marketing

gamegod3001
09-02-2001, 01:55 PM
>Microsoft Windows < 95 (2.0,3.1,3.11! omg I had used it when I was 8 and booted to dos to play wolfenstein, then wished I knew what Unix was!)

You forgot Windows 1

>Microsoft Xbox (amount and quality of developers is overrated, most developers will release better PC versions shortly after XBox versions) <

Prove it.

btw I hate flammers

Nick
09-02-2001, 03:46 PM
The most well known Microsoft XBox coder I know is Micheal Abrash.

Koshare
09-02-2001, 05:14 PM
Prove it?
Halo will be on PC a few months after(with better multiplayer)
Unreal Championship will also(better multiplayer again, your computer already has high speed backbone, Xbox may at release BUT, I doubt it will have the selection (dsl,cable,isdn,T1,etc))

Rest of developers are no names that are making the transition, in hopes of a better future.


Xbox IS a pc, it uses a windows kernel + direct x. Converting games would be ridiculously easy. Its like saying hey, now you can buy a relativly fast PC with a NV20 for 300 dollars and windows is FREE! Of course you cant run any apps on it, or do anything else but thats why you save money.

Xbox is already outdated which is BAD, atleast the PS2 could push enough pixels at release to beat a PC. Dont believe me? Geforce 3 is faster than the NV20, and the new radeon chip is already 30 % faster than that!


Name one benefit of developing for xbox and not releasing a PC version...

gamegod3001
09-02-2001, 06:12 PM
>Xbox IS a pc, it uses a windows kernel + direct x.
I belive it can also use opengl.

>Halo will be on PC a few months after(with better multiplayer)
Unreal Championship will also(better multiplayer again, your computer already has high speed backbone, Xbox may at release BUT, I doubt it will have the selection (dsl,cable,isdn,T1,etc)) <
Xbox will have a broadband adapteter, also.
PC games always have better mutliplayer since mulit-player is new on console systems and

>Xbox is already outdated which is BAD, atleast the PS2 could push enough pixels at release to beat a PC. Dont believe me? Geforce 3 is faster than the NV20, and the new radeon chip is already 30 % faster than that! <
Xbox has not been released yet, they can make it more powerfull.

>Name one benefit of developing for xbox and not releasing a PC version...<
None, anything I create I want avaiable on every available platform, with improvmets making the game nessary on all the platforms.

Koshare
09-02-2001, 07:02 PM
parts of the Xbox are already in production, and they actually downgraded the Xbox once. 700- 600 mhz, nv20 300 mhz - 250mhz.

It almost sounds like you are on my side...

gamegod3001
09-02-2001, 07:14 PM
>parts of the Xbox are already in production, and they actually downgraded the Xbox once. 700- 600 mhz, nv20 300 mhz - 250mhz. <

Most lickly they down gradded it to save monney. Anyways I dout microsoft cares if the games are ported to commputers.

Koshare
09-02-2001, 07:33 PM
If they didnt care they would not be microsoft. You see microsoft looses money on the Xbox but makes money off of charging 3-8 dollars per each game a publisher sells. If the game is ported why buy the Xbox if you already own a faster computer?

Fool
09-04-2001, 12:14 PM
Back to the subject again...I also would like to see both a C# and a Linux board:D

-Fool

Nick
09-05-2001, 12:54 AM
Yea but then I would want a java, scheme, perl, common lisp, python, prolog, effil, small talk, VB, qbasic, pascal, Fortran, ADA, haskel, modula, delphi .... board.

Witch_King
09-05-2001, 01:49 PM
No, you just don't want Microsoft to kick your ass again and again so you want to do anything you can in order to stop a tidle wave.

Govtcheez
09-05-2001, 01:55 PM
>java, scheme, perl, common lisp, python, prolog, effil, small talk, VB, qbasic, pascal, Fortran, ADA, haskel, modula, delphi

I also want COBOL, BASIC, B, ASM, HTML, php, ObjectPAL, Cyrano, Objective C, and Dynamic C.

I can see why a C# board is wanted - it even makes sense. but there's no reason for a .NET board. We shoudn't keep adding new boards just because there's a couple members that program in it. If you want that, go to programmersheaven.

Witch_King
09-05-2001, 04:41 PM
If you want that, go to programmersheaven

I'll think about it.

cozman
09-16-2001, 08:58 PM
i was there for a few days and i met the 3 biggest ..........holes i've ever met, and the boards are filled with ads and trash. sorry but i'm a bit bias against their boards (but it's a good site usually)

gamegod3001
10-09-2001, 08:00 PM
This is post 216, only 384 more to go. :)

itld
10-16-2001, 09:56 PM
i'll be damed sooo much M$ stuff on a linus t thrd.:o

Engineer
10-17-2001, 09:46 PM
Say what you want, but in my opinion C# is going to be famous. The ease of use of Java with the flexibility of C++. I can't wait until C# is going to be available under Linux. Then all of you will be able to relax, and have a forum about using C# under Linux.

By the way I did a small experiment:

1) "hello world!" in C compiled under MS Visual C++ 6 to 40K+.

2) "hello world!" in C# under the beta MS compiler is under 4K.

I think I am going to like C# very much!

Nick
10-18-2001, 06:34 AM
You only get 40k+ executables if you compile it statically.
C# doesn't compile to an exe does it?

Engineer
10-18-2001, 10:16 AM
C# does compile to an exe. I didn't try moving it to a diff. machine (without .NET SDK installed) to see if it will scream for any missing libraries.

Troll_King
10-27-2001, 12:06 PM
I thought it compiled to an intermediate langauge. I'll have to check later. I have VS.NET afterall.

Sunny
11-21-2001, 08:40 AM
The only problem here is there are still ppl who don't understand or underestimate the potential of linux. Sure Microsoft Windows has a cute interface and crashes ten times a day but you can play all those nice games on it with directx ( which is also microsoft ). But that's not the point. C# is still microsoft -- and right now M$ is getting a little shaken because of
the penguin invasion.

http://www.redhat.com/
http://www.linux.com/

nvoigt
11-21-2001, 09:13 AM
>I didn't try moving it to a diff. machine (without .NET SDK
>installed) to see if it will scream for any missing libraries.

It won't run without .NET Framework installed.


>The only problem here is there are still ppl who don't
>understand or underestimate the potential of linux

Fact is you need some deeper knowledge to install and use
Linux. Have you ever thought about obtaining the same amount of knowledge for windows ? If you don't configure it properly, or don't use the latest Version ( NT4 or 2K or XP ) you cannot compare the two. But you do. I bet you had a manual for your Linux installation. Have you ever considered reading a Windows manual ? If your system crashes 10 times a day, please go and get some knowledge how to handle a windows system. Win2K didn't crash on me once on four different machines for as long as I have it installed. And I got it when it came out. I am playing games ( UO and CS mostly ) and do office and coding stuff with it. No Linux system could probably perform better, because I don't have complaints.

SilentStrike
11-21-2001, 11:12 AM
Actually, installation wise, Mandrake 8 is easier/quicker to install than is windows 2000. It's after the installation that things get hairy, putting new software onto a linux machine is often times very esoteric (Some stuff comes on CD and is as easy as running a software installer program, searching for the program name, and installing the correct modules, the program itself checking for and installing dependencies), but when you have to hunt for stuff on rpm, or worse, compile it from source, it's really painful.

It's not hard to get Linux working with a nice distro anymore, it's just hard to get it to do anything.

dirkduck
11-21-2001, 05:41 PM
I find it easier to setup my internet connection under linux then i do under windows

Sunny
11-22-2001, 05:30 AM
Look. I'm not saying Windows is THAT bad. It just doesn't let me feel comfortable or at home. Yes, i do get a lot of nice Blue screens a day. But that's not my point. I don't type letters in Ms Word. I like to do other stuff besides playing nifty 3d games and modifying the registry. Personnaly i feel more at home in linux. I don't want to upset anyone or anything. Windows is very nice for being so simple and fast.
I mean, after all , i'm a C programmer. :P

Unregistered
11-22-2001, 09:50 AM
<<It's not hard to get Linux working with a nice distro anymore, it's just hard to get it to do anything.>>

i don't think you're right here. i'm running RedHat 7.2 on my only pc at home, and my moron roomate uses it everyday with little or no problems. He's even dabbling with MySQL (once i got the gui running for him). anyway point it that linux installs are easy now days, and linux can do anything a windows system can unless you're into games. windows whoops linux's ass in that respect, but there's more game development everyday. last i heard anyway; it may be dead now...

Sunny
11-24-2001, 07:05 AM
I still can't grasp why some ppl are still so scared of Open Source. It's not like the penguin's gonna byte or something... All i wanted to say is that there should be a more open communication between programmers.


Red Hat 6.1 took me about 10 minutes to install, and a few more for X. The only problem came when Kudzu couldn't recognize my modem - internal PCI plug and play SM56 Motorola 56 K. No luck on getting that one to work though... :confused: