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Doxygen
09-29-2006, 04:50 AM
Just out of curiosity how many lines of code do you think Vista will have?

Mario F.
09-29-2006, 04:54 AM
I'd say more than what is really necessary to do the same thing. Microsoft's trademark.

bivhitscar
09-29-2006, 04:56 AM
Scroll half way down - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_lines_of_code

maxorator
09-29-2006, 06:15 AM
I thought that the there's much more lines in Vista than in XP. But it's only 25%.

Prelude
09-29-2006, 06:57 AM
>Just out of curiosity how many lines of code do you think Vista will have?
Enough to do everything it tries to do. Why does this matter? Lines of code is an awful measure.

maxorator
09-29-2006, 08:25 AM
>Just out of curiosity how many lines of code do you think Vista will have?
Enough to do everything it tries to do. Why does this matter? Lines of code is an awful measure.
Some people just like statistics. There's nothing wrong with that.

Prelude
09-29-2006, 02:13 PM
>There's nothing wrong with that.
There is when the statistics are meaningless.

SlyMaelstrom
09-29-2006, 03:07 PM
Something tells me, Prelude, that I can probably beat you in a game of Trivial Pursuit. :)

Trivia is trivial, and that's what this is... trivia. Sometimes, however it's fun to know. That's all. I agree that "How many lines of code" tells you nothing about the code's content or ability, but it does tell you how many lines of code and sometimes large numbers are fun to gawk at. I think that was max's point.

twomers
09-29-2006, 03:12 PM
>> Trivia is trivial, and that's what this is... trivia.

[offtopic, sorry]I don't know about anyone else, but I enjoy going onto wikipedia to learn about such things as Tropical Cyclones, The manufacturing process of coffee (did you know coffee beans are actually coffee seeds? How can someone enjoy a cup if they don't know this?), Poseidon and all that mythology, Scientology, Superhetrodyne receivers, and sometimes lost. Other times when I'm bored, I go to uncyclopedia.[/offtopic, sorry]

Prelude
09-29-2006, 03:14 PM
>Something tells me, Prelude, that I can probably beat you in a game of Trivial Pursuit.
Maybe not. Whenever I play with my family, I own the science and nature, art and literature, and geography categories. ;)

Mario F.
09-29-2006, 03:23 PM
> did you know coffee beans are actually coffee seeds?

I'm just about to beat you to that. Did you know that all beans are in fact seeds? ;)

> I enjoy going onto wikipedia

Careful! Don't just blindly trust everything you read there. Especially numbers.

> How can someone enjoy a cup if they don't know this?

Even more curious is perhaps the fact that coffee is one of the most appreciated drinks in the world and yet is the result of a chemistry experiment complete failure. The attempt was always to put into taste the aroma of the coffee. We never could.

> Maybe not. Whenever I play with my family, I own the science and nature, art and literature, and geography categories.

I'm in! :)

twomers
09-29-2006, 03:29 PM
>> I'm just about to beat you to that. Did you know that all beans are in fact seeds? ;)
:confused: I don't know if you're joking or not :p


>> Don't just blindly trust everything you read there. Especially numbers.
It's an interesting read, most of the time. I'm sure it can't be that wrong all the time. It's wiki, so it's obviously not completely accurate - I was reading something on it the other day which mentioned something about aliens doing something to hurricanes to aid them in their quest for something I can't remember.


I like coffee.


CBoard Pursuit ... online competition ... I like the idea ... Gabbly! Everyone! NOW!

SlyMaelstrom
09-29-2006, 03:31 PM
Something tells me that a trivia game just wouldn't have the same effect on the internet.

Wiki seems to be more accurate on "knowledge" topics rather than "rumor" topics. This is because there will always be multiple professionals in each field willing to share their knowledge. Things like programming, engineering, geography, history, and the likes are usually accurate where things like casting for upcoming movies or things that will be in upcoming games are often very inaccurate.

twomers
09-29-2006, 03:32 PM
I dunno gravy. We could all cheat.

SlyMaelstrom
09-29-2006, 03:36 PM
It would have to be a form of Speed Trivial Pursuit where you only get 30 seconds to answer. Though, I have a sneaking suspicious I can get most answers off the internet in less than 30 seconds.

twomers
09-29-2006, 03:39 PM
Just to throw it back on topic, Wikipedia has an article about Windows Vista - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_vista I was actually reading it today before this topic started.

It'll be problematic with the 30 second limit, Sly

SlyMaelstrom
09-29-2006, 03:41 PM
I wonder what kind of processing power it takes to render those translucent windows...

twomers
09-29-2006, 03:44 PM
Sly, are you RichieT? I was having this exact same conversation with him today ...


A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least:

* 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor1.
* 1 GB of system memory.
* Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of graphics memory (minimum)2, Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per pixel.
* 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
* DVD-ROM Drive3.
* Audio output capability.
* Internet access capability.

And here's the minimum requirements -

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/systemrequirements.mspx

Mario F.
09-29-2006, 03:48 PM
:confused: I don't know if you're joking or not :p

Eh! Nope. I'm not joking. All beans are seeds mate :)

SlyMaelstrom
09-29-2006, 03:51 PM
I wouldn't trust those requirements... they say "at least", which means they probably mean running Windows Vista in "Windows 2000" mode as the Visual Style. It's like car commercials... they say it $17,000 but when you get there they hit you with all the "extra" like breaks and a steering wheel... go figure.

twomers
09-29-2006, 03:51 PM
>>All beans are seeds mate

But isn't that what I said?? Dude, I'm really confused :confused:

Me - > did you know coffee beans are actually coffee seeds?

You didn't answer my question, Sly!! THe former is the recommended (My lappy is good for that :D), but the latter (800Mhz one), is the min, and it really does seem very low spec, doesn't it?

SlyMaelstrom
09-29-2006, 03:53 PM
But isn't that what I said?? Dude, I'm really confused :confused:

Me - > did you know coffee beans are actually coffee seeds?I didn't know the words "coffee" and "all" were interchangable in Ireland.


You didn't answer my question, Sly!! THe former is the recommended (My lappy is good for that :D), but the latter (800Mhz one), is the min, and it really does seem very low spec, doesn't it?Yes it does seem low. That's the MS sales people hard at work (Ballmer!). I also have a laptop that's good for that... only cost me $700, too. My PC is more than good for that. I didn't see your question... you mean am I Richie_T? The answer is "No"...

twomers
09-29-2006, 03:55 PM
>> I didn't know the words "coffee" and "all" were interchangable in Ireland.

Only in my head, Sly. Only in my head - coffee was in my mind. Coffee was what I saw :)

Mario F.
09-29-2006, 04:05 PM
> But isn't that what I said?? Dude, I'm really confused

Well forget it. When you said it, it looked to me like you are surprised by the fact coffee beans are seeds... when in fact all beans are seeds... shesh! this is becoming ridiculous :p forget it.

Back on track.
I'm still not convinced by Vista. I do appreciate the interface. It's beautiful the way I see it. But really... that's it. Other than me buying a new computer with an OEM Vista in it, there is no way Microsoft will have me spend money on it. The whole thing grew from a good effort with well intentioned promises to a a list of broken promises and lots of fluff to appease the masses.

Seriously... take Aero out of Vista. Imagine it that way... how would you feel now about the broken promise of Vista. Where are the Three Pillars of Longhorn? WinFS is no more and where is the OS core .Net? Yes... they manage to not break the third pillar... Aero.

Nah. No thank you. I'd rather stay where I am and actually buy that Apple laptop once Jaguar hits the shelves.

twomers
09-29-2006, 04:08 PM
>> Seriously... take Aero out of Vista. Imagine it that way...

XP?

But that said, I think MS made an MP3 player with wifi for $250! 30 GB

Wraithan
09-29-2006, 04:10 PM
I wont be running Vista unless like Mario said, it comes with a computer I buy.

I have yet to buy a Windows CD and I don't plan on ever doing it. I run OEM copies that I have gotten by buying my computers. 2 of my computers don't even run Windows, they are linux boxen since A: they are too old for any recent Windows, and B: I don't have any spare licences.

MadCow257
09-29-2006, 04:17 PM
What do you think of ReadyBoost, looks interesting...

Mario F.
09-29-2006, 04:26 PM
Wasn't aware of it. Add to look it up.

I wouldn't use it though. I prefer more definite solutions like opening my machine and installing new memory. But can see that as an advantage for non technical users, yes.

joeprogrammer
09-29-2006, 04:47 PM
Nah. No thank you. I'd rather stay where I am and actually buy that Apple laptop once Jaguar hits the shelves.
It's not called Jaguar, it's called Leopard (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html)!!!

From what I see of Vista, it's just got a lot of fancy visuals. That's what is so interesting about Linux... you can get Vista skins, and then you can hardly tell the difference! (Mac OS X really needs to add skins.) It'll be interesting to see how well it goes against Leopard when the 2 are released.

And you know which operating system I really want to win.... Linux!

Wraithan
09-29-2006, 04:50 PM
>And you know which operating system I really want to win.... Linux!

Yeah, I can tell by your 'tar and title.

joeprogrammer
09-29-2006, 04:56 PM
Yeah, I can tell by your 'tar and title.
Dude, I haven't gotten around to changing it yet! :o

Wraithan
09-29-2006, 05:02 PM
Heh, now I wont reconize you.

CornedBee
09-29-2006, 08:01 PM
I wonder what kind of processing power it takes to render those translucent windows...
Depends.

Vista requires an awful lot, and if your computer isn't fast enough, it simply won't.

On the other hand, XGL+whatsitsname (sorry, 4 AM here) do it on a simple computer with a simple 3d-capable card. Go figure.

joeprogrammer
09-29-2006, 08:22 PM
XGL+whatsitsname (sorry, 4 AM here)
Perhaps KDE? ;) I don't know if it's true, but I've heard a rumor that the PC manufacturers have been "encouraging" Microsoft to up the requirements for Vista so that people will have to buy new comps. I doubt this is true, but it's an interesting thought.

zx-1
09-29-2006, 08:30 PM
Depends.

Vista requires an awful lot, and if your computer isn't fast enough, it simply won't.

On the other hand, XGL+whatsitsname (sorry, 4 AM here) do it on a simple computer with a simple 3d-capable card. Go figure.

Are you thinking of Compiz? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compiz)

VirtualAce
09-29-2006, 10:43 PM
PC: I buy it, build it, and customize it. Unfortunately I have to slow idown with an MS OS.
Thats my take on Vista.

Mario F.
09-30-2006, 07:25 AM
> It's not called Jaguar, it's called Leopard!!!

Give me a break. It's my first mac ever :)

EDIT: Which begs the question, am I doing alright by waiting for... leaopard? Or shouldn't I care and buy a mac today?

siavoshkc
09-30-2006, 10:33 AM
Just out of curiosity how many lines of code do you think Vista will have?
Vista is not one program, like other MS OSes and some other OSes. If I ask how many lines Fedora Core ditro does have? Will you add up gcc or other included packages source code lines to it? Vista kernel is based on Windows Server 2003 kernel, so its kernel is about the same size. It also has .NET 3 included that is .NET 2 plus some other features. It also has a heavy GUI "Avalon" (that is the larger part of it) in addition of some other services.
All other parts should not be considered as OS's parts and are just some applications you are forced to buy with it (Claculator, CD burner, IE, Media Player, Movie Maker, etc).

joeprogrammer
09-30-2006, 05:25 PM
EDIT: Which begs the question, am I doing alright by waiting for... leaopard? Or shouldn't I care and buy a mac today?
I think it's probably a good idea to wait. I suspect that Apple will be more punctual than Microsoft when it comes to delivering the operating system when they promised. And of course Steve Jobs said there's "a lot of great stuff that we're going to keep secret". Me, from what I've seen of Leopard, I'm not totally blown away by it, but I am looking forward to Xcode 3.0. ;)

What I hate about commercial operating systems is that once they're released, support for the previous OS gets phased out (even though there isn't really any earthly reason WHY), and then you're pretty well forced to buy the next-gen operating system. Gamers probably experience this the most.

maxorator
10-07-2006, 03:40 AM
And here's the minimum requirements -

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/systemrequirements.mspx
I personally hate that it takes 15GB of HDD. Everything else is OK.

SlyMaelstrom
10-07-2006, 03:53 AM
15GB? That's really not that much these days, where computers are coming out with 1TB+ of Hard Disk Space. If you buy hard drives, the price isn't in the disk space it's in the RPMs. You can go from an 80GB model for $48 to a 160GB model for $53. Even in laptops you can get an 80GB for about $70 these days. Disk Space is cheap these days. I'm more worried about it's memory requirements. They say 1GB... but it's always much more if you want an enjoyable experience. ... or at least as enjoyable as a MS product can give you.

Regardless, my newest PC can handle the recommended and then some, it's my laptop that I'm more concerned about. Memory can only be expanded so much in them.

maxorator
10-07-2006, 03:54 AM
The prices are about twice as much here.

WDT
10-07-2006, 08:16 AM
15GB? That's really not that much these days, where computers are coming out with 1TB+ of Hard Disk Space. If you buy hard drives, the price isn't in the disk space it's in the RPMs. You can go from an 80GB model for $48 to a 160GB model for $53. Even in laptops you can get an 80GB for about $70 these days. Disk Space is cheap these days.........

That's the kind of attitude that's got us (Humanity) into the current mess that we are today with the global environment and overpopulation. Just because HD space doesn't cost much doen't mean micro........e has the right to wastefully demand that much space... I mean C'mooon 15 bloody GIGABYTES for crying out loud!!!! WTF??!!:mad:
I'm going to stick to Win2k till OS death do us apart and after that I'll move over to a Unix system. In fact, I'll only touch win 2k+ systems if there are games I can't get to work in Unix. In fact I'll probably virtualise the piece of ..........e only to play games that are only released for the platform. (Sorry but Micrsofts antics are currently making me see red):mad:

SlyMaelstrom
10-07-2006, 08:31 AM
Yes... 15GB. What do you want, time to stop? I don't think they're using the space for buffered garbage... I'm sure a majority of it is going to use. So what's the problem with 15GB when you have it? What are you going "old man" on us? "When I was your age, Operating Systems would fit on 1.5GB... and that was the maximum!" What was the average HD space when XP came out? That uses 1.5GB... I don't think computer manufacturers were building PCs with much more than 40GB in 2003... so in an age where the norm is almost 200GB, does it seem that outrageous?

...and what the hell was the overpopulation analogy? I don't see the earth growing, so how is it comparable to HD space? So stick on Win2K forever, for all I care. Stick it to the man. They're probably going to stop supporting it in a couple years, anyway. ...but if my next laptop has Vista preinstalled on its massive HD, I won't be complaining.

maxorator
10-07-2006, 10:19 AM
15GB is like 16,106,127,360 characters (bytes), think how many thousands of books you would need to get the same amount of characters.

So what is so much better in Vista that makes it take 10x more space than XP does.

Mario F.
10-07-2006, 04:29 PM
There's some sense in WDT rant. We just need to bypass the overpopulation thing :)

But those 15 gigabytes are not the operating system. Minimal installation IS the operating system. The 15 gigabytes are the OS plus all the toys.

webmaster
10-07-2006, 06:09 PM
So what is so much better in Vista that makes it take 10x more space than XP does.

It's not so much that it needs to be 10x better. It would need to be 10x better if the average cost of disk space were anywhere close to what it was five years ago. (And even that's not really true--you'd just have to account for the marginal cost of having an OS taking up that much disk space.)

If you want an OS with a small memory footprint, you can always use a cell phone. ;)

maxorator
10-07-2006, 11:07 PM
So Microsoft is just not wasting any time to make the thing smaller by optimizing it, because they think they don't need to make it any smaller?

Cell phone is kind of... uncomfortable to work with

SlyMaelstrom
10-08-2006, 02:27 AM
So Microsoft is just not wasting any time to make the thing smaller by optimizing it, because they think they don't need to make it any smaller?
Basically, yes. It figures into the same situation as most programming, today. Minor optimizations in memory management and efficiency don't pay off as much as they used to because the percentage of time and space saved is almost negligible.

Think of it like this... if you were moving from one apartment to another and you have to pack up your stuff to fit in the truck... but consider that maybe, a second truck (or one larger truck) would only cost you a small amount of money but would save you about 6 hours in trying to pack everything in one truck. It pays off in the end to just buy the extra space. Most people think of HD space in the same way, these days. Hard drives are coming out with more space than we can handle or ever need. You say that 15GB is 16106127360 characters, but my hard drives can hold 536870912000. Think about how many books I can fit on my HDs, even after I install Vista. Nearly a county library's worth... As I said, HD space is cheap, so developers waste it at no expense to their labor time. A second spent on conserving memory and processing time is worth way more than a second spent on saving HD space.

CornedBee
10-08-2006, 05:37 AM
It's not so much that it needs to be 10x better. It would need to be 10x better if the average cost of disk space were anywhere close to what it was five years ago.
So if I update my own program by adding no-ops to it until it reaches twice the size, but in the same time disk space costs half of what it did when I released the first version, that additional space is justified?

Sorry, I don't buy it.