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Rennor
09-20-2006, 03:29 AM
I never seen this question asked. People like different things and that makes us do things for work or hobby. Everything covered. This board is filled with people who have found that programming is very very interesting thing to do (Yeah, I guess it is this way).

So I am asking you lot, how you find yourself programming and why? How does it satisfy you?

VirtualAce
09-20-2006, 05:20 AM
I like self inflicted pain.

The main thing that drives me to program is creativity. If I wasn't a hobbyist programmer I'd probably be a writer or maybe even a painter.

I'd say I'm an artist and a storyteller but I use digital media to present my art rather than paint and books.

twomers
09-20-2006, 05:47 AM
I had two programming courses in University, both in first and second year. In first year I hated programming, but just before Christmas during second year I got interested in it, and decided to look into stuff that wasn't taut to us ... and that's pretty much it to be honest. I don't think my year's gonna be doing any more programming classes before we finish, so now it's also "self inflicted pain", but not to a very high pain degree :)

Govtcheez
09-20-2006, 07:08 AM
I like programming because I was able to use my programming skills to get me into a non-programming job that pays well and that I enjoy.

maxorator
09-20-2006, 07:16 AM
My story started, when I was around 8. I wanted to make a web page. But WYSIWYG editors were boring and stupid. So about 2 years passed. Then I thought, there must be a better way to make web pages. I learned HTML. That seemed very interesting to me then. I was hungry for knowledge. I also learned Javascript and CSS. Then, when I was about 11, I learned PHP and MYSQL. When I got 12, I was interested of programming. I downloaded Dev-C++ and started learning C++. In last two years (now I'm 14) I've been learning C++ and other things about computers (how floats are built, PE executable construction byte by byte etc). I try to learn as much as I can about everything. I can't just "not read" information about programming and that kind of things. I am still hungry for knowledge and I can't stop learning, because I am too interested in these things. I've always liked low-level stuff, because that's closer to "the truth". That's why I stick to C++ with Win32 API and try to learn assembly language.

cboard_member
09-20-2006, 07:39 AM
I'd have to say it's a creativity thing plus the fact that I find the nitty-gritty of how computers work really interesting. If I wasn't introduced to programming I'd probably be a hobbyist electrician / engineer of some sort - come to think of it I'd probably have ended up programming anyway.

Mario F.
09-20-2006, 07:39 AM
I have no idea why I like programming.

. I like problem solving, but I could easily do that by constantly getting in trouble and trying to get out of it.

. I like creative processes, but so do museum robbers.

. I like methodic thinking, but I'm not that good at it.

. I like computers, so why didn't I choose to build them instead?

. I like to understand how things work, but when my TV breaks I buy a new one.

. I like recognition, but not always I'm a good friend.

. I like maths, but still can't figure out why I can't divide by zero.

. I like programming, but I bet my life would be more exciting if i didn't.

psychopath
09-20-2006, 08:54 AM
>>I like programming, but I bet my life would be more exciting if i didn't.

Same here. *sighs*

twomers
09-20-2006, 09:15 AM
>> but still can't figure out why I can't divide by zero.

(not sure if you were being sarcastic, so I'll go on the assumption that you weren't)

It's basically because if you do that the result is infinity, which is not a real number, just an abstraction meaning that whatever number (even over three and a half squillion), you think of, someone else can think of a bigger one (four and a quarter million squillion). It's undefined behavior. Check out Salem's sig.

On the other hand, going on the possibility that you were being sarcastic (Now that I think of it, when have you ever been sarcastic?), I would have to disagree with you about the exciting non-programming lifestyle which you think may result without having programmed. MURK man! Can't we just accept that we like abstract things? I like Etymology, but I have NO idea why.

laserlight
09-20-2006, 09:16 AM
I started off wanting to learn how people did those nifty things like hit counters on their websites, and somehow ventured into C++. What kept me going was the joy of seeing my programs actually work as intended, at least from time to time :P


Same here. *sighs*
Because you would be a psychopath instead? :D

maxorator
09-20-2006, 09:29 AM
I can't imagine what my life would be without programming...

glo
09-20-2006, 09:48 AM
I read somewhere that programming is like Lego, only your pieces dont run out.
I like Lego : >

maxorator
09-20-2006, 09:52 AM
Quite right, I think... you need ideas... you need logic... you need time...

Govtcheez
09-20-2006, 10:16 AM
You need one of those 2x1 blocks

Mario F.
09-20-2006, 10:27 AM
> I can't imagine what my life would be without programming...

You are 14, right?

Personally I find that statement very disturbing at your age max. Don't take me wrong.
But really... just put a lot of consideration into that. There a lot more to life than programming for pete's sake. Especially at you age!
Heck, I'm 36 (which is considered young by many standards) and I want out!

It's not the paradise you are probably lead to believe unless that passion sticks to you when the real problems start to occur. Like being forced to program when you don't want to, program things you don't want to, program against the clock when all you want is to get some sleep, program against a background of shouting from your boss, program with other people that don't necessarily feel the same way about it as you... etc...

Then, if you come out of that unharmed every single day from Monday to Friday and still feel invigorated enough... then you will be one of the very few in the world who really can say "I don't know what my life would be without programming".

twomers
09-20-2006, 10:28 AM
Those ones go away so fast! Everyone wants them! Just as well we don't ever run out of them. The 2x1's are memory, right? I never knew lego had functions! Recursion! STL! Pointers and templates. Wow. I'm impressed.


>> > I can't imagine what my life would be without programming...
I misread that to not have the my initially. Mario paints a bleak picture. Make it more like my sig!

jlou
09-20-2006, 10:33 AM
You need one of those 2x1 blocks
... in red! I can't finish this dang chimney until I find one.


I like programming because the challenges it provides are ones that I enjoy facing. Logic, problem solving, attention to detail, and stuff like that. I also like it because it provides a living for me and my family. If it didn't, I'd find a different job and probably wouldn't be programming at all.

indigo0086
09-20-2006, 10:46 AM
One of the few things in life that I understand.

Mario F.
09-20-2006, 11:01 AM
> Mario paints a bleak picture.

I do I do. Soon all of you will too. Muahaha!

EDIT: I feel I need a disclaimer though. I like programming. I love it. I just don't like do it for a living.

Govtcheez
09-20-2006, 11:05 AM
>It's not the paradise you are probably lead to believe unless that passion sticks to you when the real problems start to occur. Like being forced to program when you don't want to, program things you don't want to, program against the clock when all you want is to get some sleep, program against a background of shouting from your boss, program with other people that don't necessarily feel the same way about it as you... etc...

That's not how the real world works! Everyone knows once you get a CS degree, you get put in a darkened room with an unlimited supply of Mountain Dew and get to work on whatever you want! You don't even have to finish it!

There's no way you're telling the truth. In your horrible dystopia of a world, people do what their supervisor says they have to do, even if it's something stupid like embedding macros into a spreadsheet. They're also given totally unrealistic deadlines by people who have no idea what sort of work actually goes into making a functional and useful program. I refuse to believe in this web of lies!

IfYouSaySo
09-20-2006, 11:22 AM
Sometime near the middle of my first college degree, I realized that what I really wanted to do was play chess professionally. Then after devoting too much time to chess, and skipping too many marketing classes, I realized that I would probably never be good enough to be pro, and even if I was, it didn't pay. So I finished my lame degree, did an internship, and couldn't get hired anywhere because...I lacked computer skills. I was ........ed off, and I set about to make things right, and tried to learn as much as possible about computers. Along the way I stumbled across pascal, then c, and I wrote some pretty cool programs even before I had taken any classes (I thought they were pretty cool at least). I fell in love with it because it was the closest profession to chess that I had seen (decision making, problem solving, evaluating trade-offs) and it pays pretty damn good also. So I went back and got a second degree...

maxorator
09-20-2006, 12:04 PM
> I can't imagine what my life would be without programming...

You are 14, right?

Personally I find that statement very disturbing at your age max. Don't take me wrong.
But really... just put a lot of consideration into that. There a lot more to life than programming for pete's sake. Especially at you age!
Heck, I'm 36 (which is considered young by many standards) and I want out!

It's not the paradise you are probably lead to believe unless that passion sticks to you when the real problems start to occur. Like being forced to program when you don't want to, program things you don't want to, program against the clock when all you want is to get some sleep, program against a background of shouting from your boss, program with other people that don't necessarily feel the same way about it as you... etc...

Then, if you come out of that unharmed every single day from Monday to Friday and still feel invigorated enough... then you will be one of the very few in the world who really can say "I don't know what my life would be without programming".

That means I'm lucky to be this young. I can learn very much before having any problems.

Govtcheez
09-20-2006, 12:49 PM
That means I'm lucky to be this young. I can learn very much before having any problems.
That's a very good attitude to have. If you learn enough before you get into a real job, it'll make things a lot easier to deal with in pressure situations.

swgh
09-20-2006, 02:20 PM
Ok, my answer is I love games. I started to learn C after I left school in 1997. I learnt as much C as I could then moved to C++, which I am still learning. I love programming, it expands my mind and really makes me think about real objects I see outside. If I am walking around and see like, say a cat, I think of what data member a cat class could have. say age, weight, name, height ect. I moved into more advanced C++ two years ago and am pleased I changed languages. Do not get me wrong, I am not knocking C, it is a great structured language, and it got me into right into C++ really easily. If I am writing a game, the only C code I might inherit is a struct for a non-method class. And, lwearning pointers was a breeze as I knew it from C.

To sum up, I program not beacuse I have to, it is beacause I choose to. I love it, and would not swap it for anything. If I ever want to work for a games company, I need all the experience I can get my hands on. And C++ is a valuable tool to any proffesional game programmer

Sentral
09-20-2006, 03:29 PM
I can't believe no one said this.... "I like it because you can finally order your piece of **** computer around!" :D

siavoshkc
09-20-2006, 03:45 PM
I don't know why I love it. My brain is built for it.

Richie T
09-20-2006, 03:50 PM
I don't - I think that's apparent by now :p

twomers
09-20-2006, 04:02 PM
>> Also using SuSE 10.1 Linux with GCC 4.1.1 for "fun"

... erm ... sure you don't love it :rolleyes:

MadCow257
09-20-2006, 04:59 PM
I used to love programming, but now I don't...

I use it mainly just when I need something that someone else hasn't already made (small little utilities or algorithm testing)

Honestly, I program more at school then I do at home now

System_159
09-20-2006, 05:14 PM
I'm very good at problem solving, and I tend to be very creative(CS major, Visual Arts minor).

I originally became interesting in programming because of games, but then I realized that's a 1 in a million shot, and so I started just programming to learn about programming. I like where that's going, so I'll stick with it for now.

Prelude
09-20-2006, 05:29 PM
>How does it satisfy you?
I'm a control freak, I'm obsessive compulsive, and I'm an arrogant prick. Programming suits me perfectly.

gcn_zelda
09-20-2006, 05:48 PM
I do it to impress the ladies.

whiteflags
09-20-2006, 06:24 PM
I have no idea why I like programming. [...]

. I like maths, but still can't figure out why I can't divide by zero.

I thought I showed you exactly why you can't in movie form. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLxMN5YMS3A)

h_howee
09-20-2006, 07:42 PM
I just like random things like problem solving, same reason y i got into speedcubing


It's basically because if you do that the result is infinity, which is not a real number, just an abstraction meaning that whatever number (even over three and a half squillion), you think of, someone else can think of a bigger one (four and a quarter million squillion). It's undefined behavior. Check out Salem's sig.
I SPENT 2 HOURS TRYING TO FIND THAT WORD
it's been bugging be for quite a while


I like Lego : >
So do i =D but i havent touched them ever since i started speedcubing


Then, if you come out of that unharmed every single day from Monday to Friday and still feel invigorated enough... then you will be one of the very few in the world who really can say "I don't know what my life would be without programming".
hope I'll be one of them =)

Now that I think about it, not sure i want to do C++ for a living anymore...


Ok, my answer is I love games.

Oh yeah, that too


I can't believe no one said this.... "I like it because you can finally order your piece of **** computer around!"

u don't need c++ for that, all u need is a mouse and keyboard or u can point a gun to it

Mario F.
09-20-2006, 08:23 PM
> I thought I showed you exactly why you can't in movie form.

oh man! I had completely forgot about that one! :p
I love it.

h_howee
09-20-2006, 08:29 PM
It's basically because if you do that the result is infinity, which is not a real number, just an abstraction meaning that whatever number (even over three and a half squillion), you think of, someone else can think of a bigger one (four and a quarter million squillion). It's undefined behavior. Check out Salem's sig.

i dont see anything in his sig bout that

CrazyNorman
09-20-2006, 09:03 PM
I started programming around 2nd/3rd grade and got really into it. I get a sort "high" from it, especially when I track down a big bug, make something impressive, or solve a complex problem. Does anyone else get a sort of high from programming?

whiteflags
09-20-2006, 10:22 PM
If what you are really describing is more like a sense of accomplishment, then yes. I feel really smart.

DISGUISED
09-21-2006, 02:05 AM
Problem solving, creativity, love of computers, etc. are all great reasons, but at the end of the day it boils down to the fact that it pays the bills above all else :)

SMurf
09-21-2006, 03:45 AM
Beats being sexually frustrated. :(

maxorator
09-21-2006, 03:59 AM
I thought I showed you exactly why you can't in movie form. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLxMN5YMS3A)
Now that explains it all! :D

nvoigt
09-21-2006, 05:04 AM
Why do I like programming ? Well, that's a long story. Back in the goold old days of ancient egypt, if you wanted to get something done, you started a war, massacred your neighbours, took 10.000 slaves and let them do your bidding. Nowadays, with all those pesky anti-slavery laws and all those fluffy bunny politicians that are afraid to start wars, people have to do all their work themselves. That sucks. I'm too lazy to do my work all by myself. It's boring, it takes time and there's no one to whip for fun. But luckily, all those laws and political correctness were only made for humans. So I went and bought a machine to enslave. I'm back. I'm the master. Do my bidding dreaded bag of metal bones. Muahahahahahaha. *whip*

risby
09-21-2006, 05:23 AM
>How does it satisfy you?
I'm a control freak, I'm obsessive compulsive, and I'm an arrogant prick. Programming suits me perfectly.
I think it's probable that symptoms from the Autistic Spectrum are relatively common in the population of computer programmers.

I don't think I'm a control freak but I do tend to over-prepare for any new or potentially difficult task or event because I don't want to be caught out as the fraud I know I really am. I swing between being an arrogant prick and being way too critical of myself.

I got into programming accidentally in 1978 after completing a Humanities degree (that's nothing to do with science or engineering for those of you who don't know; it's philosophy, linguistics, history and rubbish like that). I learnt a bit of programming from my flatmates and then applied myself to it, somewhat compulsively.

I liked knowing arcane things that so few other people knew about in those days. I just did it, was reasonably good at it, of course I thought I was brilliant at it at first :-) and I carried on ... for some twenty-six years. Until a couple of years ago when some of the things Mario.F mentions got to me: things like "you can't improve the system because that's not our responsibility"; "you can't tell the customer about these security holes because the whole company relies on providing this setup"; "you can't automate that process because nobody will be able to maintain it if you leave"; and so on.

And so, dear reader, I left. I declined to get another contract. And, happily, I have discovered that obsession is transferable: to cooking - I cook at least one meal every day and challenge myself with ever more complex or refined dishes and techniques and I now have over eighty cookbooks; also, perhaps more worryingly to my nearest and dearest, to blades - my interest in kitchen knives (I now have about twenty including a zirconium carbide knife and, my favourite, a Global Deba oriental chef's knife) led on to learning about different steel alloys, sharpening techniques and devices and, this year, to making a handle from cherry wood for a swedish blade, carving replacement scales for my Swiss Army knife from African padauk wood and making leather sheaths for my growing collection of non-kitchen knives.

I started using forums with the BBC food message board and then found other food forums and blogs, and then bushcraft forums ... and blade forums ... and language forums. Hmmm, that may be a bit obsessive too.

However, in the last few of months, after doing all this other stuff, I have started to yearn for programming practice again and have begun to offer help on a number of forums. I like it. It's an intellectual challenge like a crossword puzzle. It's creative and solutions can be very elegant, which you can appreciate even if there's no one else around who can see it or who gives a damn.

I still wonder though, did programming turn me into a nerd or was I drawn to it because I was born a nerd. And, If I'd got into catering thirty years ago would I be a famous chef by now or, more likely, much worse off financially.

twomers
09-21-2006, 05:47 AM
i dont see anything in his sig bout that
If you dance barefoot on the broken glass of undefined behaviour, you've got to expect the occasional cut.

Dividing by 0 is undefined. Now, if you divide by zero, the world explodes, thanks for the heads up, citizen, so if you don't call that undefined ... well ... ok.

risby
09-21-2006, 06:27 AM
It's basically because if you do that the result is infinityNot right.


Dividing by 0 is undefined.That's better.

Dividing by a bigger number gives more pieces (towards an infinite number), a smaller number gives fewer pieces (towards an infinitessimal number). Dividing by zero is like squashing something into no pieces at all, something into nothing. Like the universe condensing into a singularity and, to paraphrase Douglas Adams, when this happens "it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened".

twomers
09-21-2006, 06:34 AM
>> Not right.

Well, it tends towards zero, and seeing as infinity is an abstraction, it was loosely said.

1/1 = 1.
1/0.5 = 2
1/.25 = 4
1/.125 = 8
...
1/0.00000000000000000000000000125 = 800000000000000000000000000

see any pattern? Towards what 'number' does the result tend as the denominator tends towards 0, but can't reach? Infinity. I always found it slightly odd that while x/0 is undefined, x/infinity is just 0 ... if you do some 'manipulation' ... :rolleyes:


EDIT - oh dear ... this has just turned into a maths debate :( Never thought I'd see the day when I would be debating maths

whiteflags
09-21-2006, 06:37 AM
twomers & risby: There is also the theory that you're wrong and the only reason dividing by zero is so bad is because you can mathematically prove anything you want to be true.

For any real number x:
x^2 − x^2 = x^2 − x^2
Factoring both sides in two different ways:
(x − x)(x + x) = x(x − x)
Dividing both sides by x − x, giving (0 / 0):
(0 / 0)(x + x) = x(0 / 0)
Simplified, yields:
(1)(x + x) = x(1)
Which is:
2x = x
Since this is valid for any value of x, we can plug in x = 1.
2 = 1

I have broken the Universe. OH SHI—

twomers
09-21-2006, 06:38 AM
Calculus is pretty much based around dividing my zero.

I wish I remembered more of Douglas Adams' books :/


edit -

well x/0 is one thing, but 0/0 is quite another :rolleyes:

whiteflags
09-21-2006, 06:42 AM
Doesn't mean that it isn't relevant.

twomers
09-21-2006, 06:44 AM
I know, but the question is whether 0/0 is 1 because what's above the line is the same as what's below, or whether it's 0 because what's above the line is 0 ... I prefer to use L'Hopital's rule to simplify these kinds of things instead of relying on my breaking down and simplification power.