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VirtualAce
06-09-2006, 10:56 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060609/ap_on_hi_te/video_game_detox

All I can say is....gimme a break.

Let's open up a clinic for C++ detox and secretly channel the funds into this board so we may reach our goal of total world domination. :)

Ok, so I went a bit far there, but you get the point.

Mad_guy
06-10-2006, 12:28 AM
I think those people need to get a real addiction like heroin or something and come back and talk about this kind of stuff.

Mario F.
06-10-2006, 03:51 AM
One has to remember everything is legal in netherlands

SlyMaelstrom
06-10-2006, 04:04 AM
One has to remember everything is legal in netherlands

Almost everything... and if it isn't... be prepared to lose a valuable appendage.

SniperSAS
06-10-2006, 04:57 AM
I can only imagine how little self control these people have

I know a dude who quit cocaine cold turkey and it is almost insulting to hear these losers say they are "addicted"

Mario F.
06-10-2006, 05:18 AM
These losers kick my arse on half-life. I say lock them up!

BobMcGee123
06-10-2006, 11:11 AM
offering in-house treatment for people who can't leave their joysticks alone.


Hey I went to a place just like that in Nevada!

Cheeze-It
06-10-2006, 11:16 AM
I think those people need to get a real addiction like heroin or something and come back and talk about this kind of stuff.

Why is it so unreasonable to believe that there are people
who are addicted to video games? How would a video game
addiction be any different than a gambling addiction? A
pornography addiction (hi Cheez!)?

There's absolutely nothing with what this company is doing.
It's not like they're on a mission to get video games banned
because they may be addictive (which I'm against, as I said
here (http://cboard.cprogramming.com/showthread.php?t=26756) ); they're just trying to help people who have become
addicted to them.





I know a dude who quit cocaine cold turkey and it is almost insulting to hear these losers say they are "addicted"


That has nothing to do with ANYTHING. There are psychological
addictions too, you know. Personally, I think a psychological
addiction would be much more difficult ot break than a physical
one. I mean, half the time you may not even know you're addicted.
And that's probably because psychologically addictive substances
are very accessible -- you're not likely to regularly be in a position
where you're out of reach of whatever it is you're addicted
to. And becuase of that, you'll rarely experience withdrawals.

Take Porn for example. Govtcheez has an internet connection at
home and at work. So at any time he gets the urge to look at
naked russians, he can do it. The comfort of nude soviets is literally
at his fingertips.

It wouldn't be until you seperate him from his technology that he
realizes he NEEDS those images of naked russians to get him
through the week. But since he spends a good portion of his waking
life either at home or at work, it's not likely he's ever going to be
out of reach of his "drug", and therefor won't experience the
withdrawals that are telling him that he is, in fact, addicted to
naked russians.

I'm willing to bet that you're addicted to something and don't even
know it. I'm sure we all are.

Thantos
06-10-2006, 12:30 PM
There are three main types of addiction: physical, psychological, and social. Of the three physical addictions are the easiest to overcome, our bodies are surprisingly resilient. Most addictions are a combination of the three. For example, during boot camp recruits are not allowed to smoke cigarettes. After three months the physical addiction has long been defeated, however many still light up as soon as they have a chance because of the psychological and social additions they haven’t defeated.

Social addictions can be overcome but changing who you hang out with, where you go, things like that. Not always easy but doable if the will is there.

Psychological addictions are not that easy because you can not just walk away from them. Changing your friends and habits, or depriving yourself of the source of addiction doesn’t make you’re psychological need go away.

Now let’s look at the case of video game addictions. Games provide a very high psychological high. Say you are the runt of the school being picked on; unable to defend yourself, but when you get home you can escape into a world where you have power to overcome your enemies. You are no longer weak but strong, no longer unnoticed but a hero, no longer unpopular but someone revered by all, life is no longer boring but exciting. You can’t tell me that wouldn’t make the person feel good. Eventually you want to feel good more often, until that’s the most important thing to you. That sounds awfully like a drug addict.

Now its easy to laugh at them, say they are weak willed, etc. But honestly they are no different from someone who got caught up in drugs to escape reality.

Now I’m not against video games in anyway. I think that some people, myself being one of them, are of the personality type that allow for an easier addiction to video games. That doesn’t mean we need to ban them but instead be aware of when they (or anything) begins to take over your life. Since about February I’ve wanted to get a new game, due to how I play the games I’ve been putting it off until the end of the semester. I then bought a new game knowing that I would over play it but that was ok since I had the time and didn’t have commitments that would interfere with it. However I came to terms with this several years ago and now control it. Some people, however, haven’t gotten to that point and need some help getting there. There is nothing wrong with that.

SniperSAS
06-10-2006, 12:58 PM
That has nothing to do with ANYTHING. There are psychological
addictions too, you know. Personally, I think a psychological
addiction would be much more difficult ot break than a physical
one. I mean, half the time you may not even know you're addicted.
And that's probably because psychologically addictive substances
are very accessible -- you're not likely to regularly be in a position
where you're out of reach of whatever it is you're addicted
to. And becuase of that, you'll rarely experience withdrawals.


I know there are psychological addictions, but if my friend can overcome a chemical addiction as intense as that of cocaine's, I'm pretty sure these faggots can set World of Warcraft down for a few seconds



Take Porn for example. Govtcheez has an internet connection at
home and at work. So at any time he gets the urge to look at
naked russians, he can do it. The comfort of nude soviets is literally
at his fingertips.

you leave cheez out of this :mad:



It wouldn't be until you seperate him from his techology that he
realizes he NEEDS those images of naked russians to get him
through the week. But since he spends a good portion of his waking
life either at home or at work, it's not likely he's ever going to be
out of reach of his "drug", and therefor won't experience the
withdrawals that are telling him that he is, in fact, addicted to
naked russians.


yeah except that would never happen because cheez isn't a pathetic, weak willed whiny piece of garbage



I'm willing to bet that you're addicted to something and don't even
know it. I'm sure we all are.

maybe you are but I have something called "self control"

Thantos
06-10-2006, 01:16 PM
I know there are psychological addictions, but if my friend can overcome a chemical addiction as intense as that of cocaine's, I'm pretty sure these faggots can set World of Warcraft down for a few seconds
As I stated physical addictions are nothing compared to psychological addictions.


maybe you are but I have something called "self control"
Obviously you have no self control for the language you use or how to speak to others on this board.

whiteflags
06-10-2006, 01:33 PM
Addictions are self-destructive all the time, that's what separates them from recreational things. If you smoke, you destroy your body no matter who you are--if you gamble you destroy your bank account and family life, no matter who you are. Those are the types of addictions that really need clinics, because they pose a danger to all humanity.


Say you are the runt of the school being picked on; unable to defend yourself, but when you get home you can escape into a world where you have power to overcome your enemies. You are no longer weak but strong, no longer unnoticed but a hero, no longer unpopular but someone revered by all, life is no longer boring but exciting. Thantos' point is excellent, proving that you can get addicted to anything if you get the wrong self-image and have poor self-esteem.

Eventually if we discover that the game companies set up this detox as a source of income to power business, I'll die. I'll die because that means that game companies have been selling a product that destroys its customers--they're no better than the tobacco industry, and then they deserve their own truth commercial. That's when we know we've got something. :D

I see nothing wrong with this idea though. Gamer's who've developed a psychological addition are being returned to sociable human beings. :) Indeed.

Clyde
06-10-2006, 01:39 PM
As I stated physical addictions are nothing compared to psychological addictions.


Is the orthodox psychology stuff, or is this personal impression?

Mario F.
06-10-2006, 01:56 PM
Eventually if we discover that the game companies set up this detox as a source of income to power business, I'll die. I'll die because that means that game companies have been selling a product that destroys its customers--they're no better than the tobacco industry

Rest assured this is yet another indexed value to be added to the already big list of gains from businesses that benefit directly or indirectly from the game industry.

bithub
06-10-2006, 03:57 PM
As I stated physical addictions are nothing compared to psychological addictions.Cocaine is a physical addiction, as is nicotine, heroin, alchohol, and other barbituates. Physiological addictions are the hardest to overcome. The fact that you say physical addictions are nothing compared to psychological is astounding, and contradicts both science and logic.

How in the world can you compare a psychological addiction (like gambling or overeating) to a physical addiction? The drugs I listed above actually change the user's body chemistry making the person physically depend on the drug just to stay normal. It can be so bad that stopping cold turkey could actually kill the user.

BobMcGee123
06-10-2006, 04:21 PM
Cocaine is a physical addiction, as is nicotine, heroin, alchohol, and other barbituates. Physiological addictions are the hardest to overcome. The fact that you say physical addictions are nothing compared to psychological is astounding, and contradicts both science and logic.


Yeah, one you didnt mention is caffeine. I'm so terribly dependent...I get tired with or without it. I tried cutting back from the coffee...somebody coughed outside and I got so angry i tore my head off.

True story, it really happened.

Clyde
06-10-2006, 05:27 PM
Cocaine is a physical addiction


Actually AFAIK cocaine is more of a psychological addiction:



Cocaine addiction is the excessive intake of cocaine, and can result in physiological damage, lethargy, depression, or a potentially fatal overdose. Though the immediate craving to do more cocaine is strong and very common, this feeling usually subsides in most users within an hour of the last dosage. This craving can, as it has in many users, develop rather quickly into an intense psychological addiction. Many habitual abusers have been diagnosed with a manic condition similar to amphetamine psychosis and schizophrenia, whose symptoms include aggression, severe paranoia, and tactile hallucinations (including the feeling of insects under the skin, or "coke bugs").

Cocaine has positive reinforcement effects, which refers to the effect that certain stimuli have on behavior. Good feelings become associated with the drug, causing a frequent user to take the drug as a response to bad news or mild depression. This activation strengthens the response that was just made. If the drug was taken by a fast acting route such as injection or inhalation, the response will be the act of taking more cocaine, so the response will be reinforced. Powder cocaine, being a club drug is mostly consumed in the evening and night hours. Because cocaine is a stimulant, a user will often drink large amounts of alcohol during and after usage or smoke marijuana to dull the effects and promote slumber. These several hours of temporary relief and pleasure will further reinforce the positive response. Other downers such as heroin and various pharmaceuticals are often used for the same purpose, further increasing addiction potential and harmfulness.

It is speculated that cocaine's addictive properties stem from its DAT-blocking effects (in particular, increasing the dopaminergic transmission from ventral tegmental area neurons). However, a study has shown that mice with no dopamine transporters still exhibit the rewarding effects of cocaine administration. [18] Later work demonstrated that a combined DAT/SERT knockout eliminated the rewarding effects.[19] The rewarding effects of cocaine are influenced by circadian rhythms [20], possibly by involving a set of genes termed "clock genes". [21]


-Wikipedia

bithub
06-10-2006, 08:28 PM
From your own quote:

It is speculated that cocaine's addictive properties stem from its DAT-blocking effects (in particular, increasing the dopaminergic transmission from ventral tegmental area neurons).Sounds physical to me. I do concede the fact that the wikipedia article made it sound as if there was psychological as well as physical addictive properties.

My original point still stands though. It is way easier to overcome a phsychological addiction than it is to overcome a physical one.

Cheeze-It
06-10-2006, 09:22 PM
Cocaine is a physical addiction, as is nicotine, heroin, alchohol, and other barbituates. Physiological addictions are the hardest to overcome. The fact that you say physical addictions are nothing compared to psychological is astounding, and contradicts both science and logic.


Alcoholism is just as much a psychological addiction as it is a
physical one. And according to Columbia University Health Educators,
who're all smarter than you, it's easier to treat the physical
dependency than the psychological dependcy.



A person can be psychologically dependent without being physically dependent, but a person can't be physically dependent without being psychologically dependent. A person who is addicted to drinking develops an increased physical tolerance to the booze, and needs to gradually drink more in order to achieve the same amount of drunkenness. Chronic alcoholism occurs when there are both physical and psychological addictions. Alcoholism is treatable and controllable, but not curable. And, it's much easier to treat the physical dependency than to treat the psychological dependency.

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0003.html





How in the world can you compare a psychological addiction (like gambling or overeating) to a physical addiction? The drugs I listed above actually change the user's body chemistry making the person physically depend on the drug just to stay normal. It can be so bad that stopping cold turkey could actually kill the user.

Maybe because physical addictions are easier to recognize and
treat? There is a science behind chemical addictions; an actual
effect that these drugs have on the body that can be seen from
person to person. Everybody is addicted to nicotine for the same
reasons.

Psychological addictions can be completely unique, though. You
may be addicted to gambling for a completely different reason
that govtcheez is addicted to gambling; you may like the thrill
of risking your money, while govtcheez loves the ego boost after
he has just pwn'd someone at, like... darts. I dunno. You should
be able to get the point, though.

You need to find out *why* they're addicted before you can start
treating them. It seems like it would be more difficult to discover
the cause with psychological addictions.

bithub
06-10-2006, 11:51 PM
Alcoholism is just as much a psychological addiction as it is a
physical one. And according to Columbia University Health Educators,
who're all smarter than you, it's easier to treat the physical
dependency than the psychological dependcy.It's much easier to treat the physical dependency. It is not easier to overcome the physical dependency though. That is what we're arguing after all. Good job proving a point that no one else in this thread is trying to make or argue. You can treat a morphine addiction with methadone. Darned if it still isn't ridiculously hard to break the habit though...


Everybody is addicted to nicotine for the same
reasons. And nicotine addiction has a 93% relapse rate. Hmmm... makes you wonder why so many people fail to break this simple, well understood physical addiction.


Psychological addictions can be completely unique, though. You
may be addicted to gambling for a completely different reason
that govtcheez is addicted to gambling; you may like the thrill
of risking your money, while govtcheez loves the ego boost after
he has just pwn'd someone at, like... darts. I dunno. You should
be able to get the point, though.Some people have an oral fixation with feet. That is a very unique addiction. That uniqueness in no way makes the addiction harder to overcome than something more common. Your arguments don't have anything to do with the argument...

You can search google all night long, and post as many obscure studies as you can find. I'm willing to bet you've never known anyone addicted to heroin before. You've never stayed up all night with someone while they screamed out in physical pain from the withdrawls. But I'm sure gambling addicts go through something similar.... right?

Cheeze-It
06-11-2006, 01:35 AM
It's much easier to treat the physical dependency. It is not easier to overcome the physical dependency though. That is what we're arguing after all. Good job proving a point that no one else in this thread is trying to make or argue. You can treat a morphine addiction with methadone. Darned if it still isn't ridiculously hard to break the habit though...



Jesus. Semantics. However, I'll admit that was my fault. I read it
wrong. I made an assumption. I assumed that treating someone
resulted in success. You're right. Okay.

Maybe we should define every word we plan on using before we
continue on. Let's define hard. What makes an addiction hard to
overcome?

Is it the physical pain one experiences from withdrawals? Is that
it? Okay, you're right again. Quitting heroin is more physically painful
than quitting everything else. Genius.

However, if we consider harder to mean the time it takes to
overcome the addiction, I'm sure it would take a lot longer to
convince yourself to dislike something you actually don't than it
would to get over any physical dependency. I mean, we're talking
about brainwashing here. That's quite difficult to do, especially to
an adult. Although, I have no obscure links to prove that.




And nicotine addiction has a 93% relapse rate. Hmmm... makes you wonder why so many people fail to break this simple, well understood physical addiction.



Hey, look. Here *you* are proving nothing with a statement.

Sure, it's a physical addiction. People relapse for psychological
reasons, though. Good job.

You do know it is possible to be both psychologically and physically
addicted to the same thing, right?



Some people have an oral fixation with feet. That is a very unique addiction. That uniqueness in no way makes the addiction harder to overcome than something more common. Your arguments don't have anything to do with the argument...


When I said "unique", I was referring to the reasons behind the
addiction; not the actual thing they're addicted to. I thought that
was pretty clear when I compared cheez's reasons for gambling
with the other person's.

People are physically addicted to substances for the same reasons.
But, not all people are addicted to video games because of the
graphics.

My fault, again. I should have been more clear. You win. Still, though;
I'm going to disagree with you again. The uniqueness of the
addiction can have a bearing on how hard it is to beat. I can
expand on that, but I just don't want to.



You can search google all night long, and post as many obscure studies as you can find. I'm willing to bet you've never known anyone addicted to heroin before. You've never stayed up all night with someone while they screamed out in physical pain from the withdrawls. But I'm sure gambling addicts go through something similar.... right?

And you can provide as many anecdotes about your junky friends
who were dumb enough to get into heroin in the first place. Sorry,
he's not a victim of anything other than his own idiocy. Guess what.
People aren't generally responsible for their psychological
addictions.

It can literally take years to overcome a psychological addiction.
Not only that, but the temptation to relapse is quite a bit higher
simply because the stimuli is more accessible.

Maybe gambling addicts don't go through the physical pain that
junkies do, but I'm quite sure they're suffering in their own way.

//edit: I'm editing stuff. Don't qoute me!
//edit: k, think I'm done.

Clyde
06-11-2006, 04:00 AM
Sounds physical to me. I do concede the fact that the wikipedia article made it sound as if there was psychological as well as physical addictive properties.


Yea but the causes are always going to be physical, even psychological addictions are addictions to physical things.

I have heard the claim multiple times that Cocaine is mostly a psychological addiction, heroine however is more of a physical addiction (and AFAIK is the harder of the two to break out from).

Mario F.
06-11-2006, 05:07 AM
Anyways, wish all the best to all our youngsters that once leaving that detox center will no longer beat me in Half-Life.

bithub
06-11-2006, 09:51 AM
ignorant babbleI can't argue with that kind of mentality... so I won't. According to your profile, you are 23 years old. How about you call me in 20 years when you actually have some life experience to back up your claims instead of some stupid inner need to argue something you know nothing about. Feel free to respond with some witty remarks though; I love it how college students take a few GE classes and think they're experts on the topic!

whiteflags
06-11-2006, 10:21 AM
However, if we consider harder to mean the time it takes to
overcome the addiction, I'm sure it would take a lot longer to
convince yourself to dislike something you actually don't than it
would to get over any physical dependency. I mean, we're talking
about brainwashing here. That's quite difficult to do, especially to
an adult. Although, I have no obscure links to prove that.

Brainwashing is ridiculously simple. In sex offender treatment programs, in addition to all the group- and homework they give you, they make pedophiles masturbate beyond the point of physical pain (possibly on a regular basis). That pretty much kills their desire for children.

If you are possibly a terrorist or spy they can do several things to get you to talk or brainwash you. Truth syrum utterly stupefy you, get you to believe things. Read up on the art of torture before posting stupid .........

Not that this has anything to do with treating a drug problem anyway so that point is moot. If brainwashing was the agenda, detox clinics would be so much more effective than they are. In detox clinics they let you go through withdrawals, you talk a lot, and after you're done freaking out you go home.

Mario F.
06-11-2006, 11:49 AM
I can't argue with that kind of mentality[...] According to your profile, you are 23 years old [...] some stupid inner need to argue something you know nothing about. [...] I love it how college students take a few GE classes and think they're experts on the topic!

I'm addicted to this thread.

Cheeze-It
06-11-2006, 12:31 PM
I can't argue with that kind of mentality... so I won't. According to your profile, you are 23 years old. How about you call me in 20 years when you actually have some life experience to back up your claims instead of some stupid inner need to argue something you know nothing about. Feel free to respond with some witty remarks though; I love it how college students take a few GE classes and think they're experts on the topic!


I'm 24 and have never been to college. Thanks for assuming I'm a
college student. It makes me feel smart.




Brainwashing is ridiculously simple. In sex offender treatment programs, in addition to all the group- and homework they give you, they make pedophiles masturbate beyond the point of physical pain (possibly on a regular basis). That pretty much kills their desire for children.


Um. You can't be serious.

No, they don't make pedophiles masturbate beyond the point of
physical pain. You're an idiot if you actually believe that. I'm pretty
sure that would constitute as "cruel and unusual punishment." I
can't even see how it would be possible to make someone
masturbate.

Unless "MI" doesn't mean Michigan and you live in some weird
country, you're completely wrong. That doesn't happen in the
United States.




If you are possibly a terrorist or spy they can do several things to get you to talk or brainwash you. Truth syrum utterly stupefy you, get you to believe things. Read up on the art of torture before posting stupid ........


*sigh*

You can't count on the accuracy of information obtained by
torture. And Torture isn't an art you psychopath.

whiteflags
06-11-2006, 02:05 PM
Hey don't yell at me, you are the one who claimed that brainwashing was a part of the detox/recovery process, which it isn't. Which you completely skipped over.


No, they don't make pedophiles masturbate beyond the point of
physical pain. You're an idiot if you actually believe that. I'm pretty
sure that would constitute as "cruel and unusual punishment." I
can't even see how it would be possible to make someone
masturbate.
No you're right, probably not. But it would work.


You can't count on the accuracy of information obtained by
torture. True, but it almost doesn't matter because if you're torturing just for that, than it's all you have to work with. It still happens anyway, and it does work eventually.

nvoigt
06-12-2006, 12:52 AM
Oh how I like this topic. Addicted to video games ? Yeah, like that would ever really happen.

Mommy, Mommy, I spent all night playing this game and now I'm all thrashed and will fail my test at school. But it wasn't me. Really, I'm not responsible for this, see, I'm addicted. Wasn't me really. No, no, not me. Wasn't me.

No. You're not addicted. You need to get your ........ together and assume responsibility for what you do. You decided to spent all night playing.

Videogames have the same qualities any good book or tv serial has. Just the next page, level, episode or whatever. Just one more. Oops, sun goes up, damn. I have spent nights ( full weekends even ) reading Stephen King/Tom Clancy books cover to cover, watching 50 episodes Beverly Hills 90210 ( yes, I'm still alive ) without break or playing a cool video game when "cool" meant NetHack. I have probably failed a test or two because rushing Moscow with my imaginary panzer army was more fun than studying Communism. But it was my decision. Maybe short sighted, maybe wrong, but my decision.

Claiming addiction when you did something you later regret is just the cheap way out. And you will do it again. Face your decisions and live with it, denial is no solution.

There will be people with serious problems concerning computer games. Probably the same that would have other, no less serious, problems in different parts of life, computer games was just the first to show. There's more than a billion chinese people and I bet out of these incredible masses there was at least one who died doing nothing else but breathing. Some died during sex, some had freak accidents, some were plain dumb and 2 died playing WoW. Big deal. I guess concerning deaths and addiction, we should first ban safer sex. There really is no reason to do it other than supposed "fun" and still people do it. Ask a junkie and you'll get the same reply. "Why do you do it ?" "Because I like it. ". Ban sex already. It's addictive. See, all signs are right here. Not having any and thinking about it. Scary, dangerous stuff. Ban it.

Cheeze-It
06-12-2006, 05:26 AM
Ever see that episode of Star Trek: TNG where Riker
brings that frisbee game on board that shoots lasers
into the users' eyes? You ........ing tell me the crew wasn't
addicted to that game? They were. And that addiction
almost resulted in the complete takeover of the Enterprise.

VirtualAce
06-12-2006, 05:39 AM
Which is a depicted as a fictional account on a fictional starship in a fictional world with fictional characters all developed with the sole purpose of entertainment.

Using Star Trek to justify a theory is a bit of a stretch. Kinda like having the cast of Armageddon comment on the space shuttle.