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Jaqui
05-24-2006, 09:39 AM
A recent Article published on Techrepublic lists 10 Grammar mistakes that are extremely common in all online communication, including forums like this one.

An interesting thing showed in the discussion there on the article, the majority of people who participated in the discussion absolutely detest the "l33t" speak used in posts, emails and im's. Why would this be important? These People Hire Programmers!!!! That's right, most of these people are IT Department heads, and potentially are your bosses as programmers.

Do you think that it's a good idea to use im shorthand everywhere you post any message?

Then read the article (http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-10881-6075621.html) and ensuing discussion. "l33t" speak in posts tells people you are either to stupid to use correct grammar and spelling or to lazy to do ANY job right.

nvoigt
05-24-2006, 09:52 AM
Most of the time, if someone is too lazy to use correct grammar or spelling, I'm too lazy to answer him. Works like a charm.

Jaqui
05-24-2006, 10:00 AM
Yup, but if members here are learning programming in order to get into it for work, then by pointing out that this PUBLICLY available record of their writing style can be a drawback to employment if they do use the corrupt language.

And there were a few comments along that line in the discussion at TechRepublic. The point being if you won't answer a post like that, would you hire someone who posts like that?
[ I'm guessing not going to hire them. ]

nvoigt
05-24-2006, 10:14 AM
I'm not hiring someone who cannot express himself. How would he make a computer do his biddings if he cannot write a single page of correct ( in my case ) German with a full month or whatever he choses to take of preparation. Sending your resume means your sheet of paper will be held against several dozen others. And while I agree that a single typo is probably the worst criteria to find a new programmer, when you have a hundred resumes on your desk, it's the only reasonable way to filter once you have filtered by skillset. I have seen resumes that had never been sent through a spellchecker or proofread by another human being. I'd rather try to find a sufficient amount of monkeys than hiring someone who cannot use a tool for the job.

It's pretty easy to see if someone is not a natural speaker or if he is plain lazy. Lazy people manage to spell even "the" wrong, while foreigners have problems with words like "excruciating".

Jaqui
05-24-2006, 10:43 AM
True, when the person is not using their "native" language, but is writing in a second or third language, then there are frequently mistakes in grammar. I have found that these mistakes are easily recognised for what they are, as the person's "native" language will dictate how they make the grammar mistakes.

Personally, I'm willing to overlook mistakes caused by using a second or third language, all else being equal. I'm not willing to overlook laziness, or incompetence in someone using their native language.

apotheon
05-24-2006, 10:53 AM
I prefer to focus on people who can manage to turn in a resume that is grammatically correct, without spelling errors, without having to be proofread by another human being. I find that people who actually need spellcheckers are easily recognized by the fact that they believe the spellchecker -- which is often wrong somewhere in the midst of any complex document (like a resume).

Typos in public fora (such as this or the one at TR) are easily overlooked, but if you screw up a resume, there's something severely suboptimal going on.

Jaqui
05-24-2006, 11:02 AM
It's not just typos, it's the grammar as well. no grammar checker will catch every error, or even most errors.

most people don't even use the grammatic that is in their word / text processor.
When the grammar errors are indicating that it is someone using a second language, I'm more forgiving, when it's just laziness then I'm not forgiving at all.

Dante Shamest
05-24-2006, 11:10 AM
Hire only hot females.

pianorain
05-24-2006, 12:05 PM
Hire only hot females.Thank you. I was wondering when this thread would get back on topic.

whiteflags
05-24-2006, 12:12 PM
Or read the Microsoft documentation. (http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/children/leetspeak.mspx)

psychopath
05-24-2006, 01:29 PM
hi gize i thinks taht u shudnt get on ppl bcuz of gramer som ppl cant speel an its nto alwayz there fault an bsidz its teh nternet an n0t evry1 needs to hav good gramer on teh nternet (bcuz its teh nternet lolz !!!11 >.<

Jaqui
05-24-2006, 01:47 PM
Hire only hot females.

I don't have a problem with that :)

but if they can't communicate in english effectively, then I won't hire them. :p

Jaqui
05-24-2006, 01:50 PM
Or read the Microsoft documentation. (http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/children/leetspeak.mspx)

lets look at the url itself for a minute shall we?


http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/children/leetspeak.mspx

the important part in it is /children/, guess it proves the point, no-one who wants to be taken seriously will use this "l33t" speak wherever they expect their opinion to be taken seriously.

it may be acceptable for children that don't know correct spelling and grammar, but it's completely unacceptable for anyone over the age of 9 to use it.

whiteflags
05-24-2006, 02:02 PM
:D I was trying to be funny.

Jaqui
05-24-2006, 03:27 PM
:D the same ms documentation was pointed out in the discussion on TR, and someone made the same point about it. I was actually poking at the one who posted right after you.

Richie T
05-24-2006, 06:41 PM
I'm an engineering student and a large part of my coursework
involves report writing, be it for a project or just an experiment.
If I didn't have the language skills to write those reports in
grammatically correct English with one typo per 5000 words (a
very rough "guess"), I would lose so many marks just for being
too lazy to re-read/spell check my writing. That's because in the
working world, if I handed up a poorly typed report, I could very
realistically be fired - The report doesn't have to make a wink of
sense to the HR dept, but it should at least be literally of a high
quality.

>>som ppl cant speel
Thats what "teh speel checkr" was invented for - google toolbar
has one that you can use for internet forms such as the one I'm
writing this in.

>>n0t evry1 needs to hav good gramer on teh nternet
Fine - next time you need help on a programming task, we'll see
how people respond to it.

If I wrote anything in this manner in professional context I'd be
shot (fired). Since I spend a lot of time helping here, I like to
convey the same sense of professionalism - if my typing looked
a lot like the scribblings of a four year old, nobody would take my
advice.

I hate it when people don't do things the way they should - when
speaking in/referring to a foreign language, you should strive to
pronounce the words in the correct manner - one as a sign of
interest and respect, and two, to avoid misinterpretations.
The butchery of text on the internet is equivalent to this IMO.

JaWiB
05-24-2006, 08:04 PM
Then read the article and ensuing discussion. "l33t" speak in posts tells people you are either too stupid to use correct grammar and spelling or too lazy to do ANY job right.

Fixed.

SniperSAS
05-24-2006, 10:40 PM
you guys sure hate elite speak

Jaqui
05-25-2006, 01:42 AM
you guys sure hate elite speak

actually, I started this to make the point, it is not appropriate to use it wherever you want, it's use can detrimentally affect your employment.

if people are working as programmers, then their language skills are a huge part of their employment, using the phone text message shorthand anywhere but in a phone text message indicates poor language skills.

kermit
05-25-2006, 03:48 AM
you guys sure hate elite speak

I don't know about the rest, but yes, I do. About the only time I like it is when someone is employing it to make fun of people who use it.

psychopath
05-25-2006, 05:09 AM
@Richie T: Seriously, I was joking. Although the point of it was partly to see who the first person would be to flame me for it. ;]

Richie T
05-25-2006, 07:07 AM
>>@Richie T: Seriously, I was joking.

Naturally that would be the kind of thing to happen to me!
Nevertheless, the points stand for anyone out there who is
serious about l33t! I agree with Jaqui - for text messages only.


the rest of my rant was a long standing annoyance of mine - i
enjoy languages as a hobby so that's what really gets me about
them, it wasn't aimed at psychopath!


>>About the only time I like it is when someone is employing it to
make fun of people who use it

Hope you liked mine then!

twomers
05-26-2006, 01:59 AM
you guys sure hate elite speak

If I had to create a scale of my loathing of 'elite speak' ... from slightly vexing, to blood boiling through my bouls (alliteration :p), the word would probably be somewhere in here (http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=vexing).

But seriously, I'm in the same boat as Richie, even though he did write longer reports for all his reports.

This is what really gets me though, l33t Translaters (http://www.jayssite.com/stuff/l33t/l33t_translator.html)l, but I am kinda ammused that it works both ways!! So, even their own nationals can't understand it :D