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nickname_changed
11-21-2005, 10:49 PM
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/11/21/wow_lawsuit/

I loved the opening paragraph of that article:


Yet more parents are passing the buck and blaming computer games for the death of a teenager rather than take responsibility themselves[...]
And also this:


[...]These people didn't jump off a balcony or go on a shooting spree, but rather died from heart failure and other biological conditions associated with dehydration and extreme fatigue.

I remember when I was little. The computer was in the living room. If I was on it for more than 3-4 hours, my mum would say "Paul, how about you go outside and play?". If I didn't, she'd make me. That's called parenting. If the PC is tucked away in their bedroom, and you let them stay locked in there for hours and hours a day, then in my books you're a bad parent, no excuses. I mean, hated being forced to leave in the middle of the game, but it's a lot more fun kicking a footy down at the park than any computer game, and a lot healthier.

Thantos
11-21-2005, 11:15 PM
I played it and its not that addictive IMO and I have a tendancy to get addicted to games.

nvoigt
11-22-2005, 12:31 AM
I'm playing WoW. It was kinda addictive from Level 1 to 60. Now that I have two Chars at 60 ( Holy Priest as main and Rogue twink for mindless fun ) and their sets completed it's just logging in for MC.

I really don't see that computer games are worse than tv in this aspect. Anyone seen a kid jumping from a roof because he thought he was Batman recently ?

It takes a while to die of dehydration. I like WoW. I like chocolate. I like sex. I like good books. I like Dawsons Creek. I like sleeping. Didn't die of any of these yet. Maybe I'm so incredebly strong that I don't get addicted. Maybe I'm just not a total idiot. Staying up three days without water or food playing WoW killed someone. Big deal. I bet that staying up 3 days without water or food watching Dawsons Creek would have killed him as well, just more painful :)

SlyMaelstrom
11-22-2005, 04:32 PM
There is no competition in watching Dawson's Creek.

Ever been top-ranked on a game? Ever been in a top-ranked clan? Many people end up playing those games just to be and remain the best. They miss school, they miss work, just so their competitiors don't get more practice time than them. It's unfortunate that online games can become more than games for some people, but it does, and I think parents should make a better effort to watch how much their kids play these games.

nvoigt
11-22-2005, 11:25 PM
The same could be said about sports :rolleyes:

Everything you do in moderation is fine. Everything you do excessivly is not. I could probably drop out of school to be a lazy bum, which is bad, while relaxing on the couch after a hard day of work is fine.

SlyMaelstrom
11-22-2005, 11:31 PM
The same could be said about sports :rolleyes:

The only difference is, most people know they don't have what it takes to be the best at sports. Even if they tried it would take them all of 20 seconds and 5 lost balls off their butter-fingers to realize it's not worth wasting their effort on. Games on the other hand make things easier. All you need is quick eyes and quicker fingers and you can be the king of the internet. Everyone feels like their right at the top, no matter how far off they actually are, and people like the feeling of being really good at something, no matter how trivial that thing is.

sean
11-23-2005, 12:16 AM
"Mortal Kombat Special Edition is the best video game ever made."

"I disagree; it's a very good game, but I think Donkey Kong is the best video game ever made."

"Donkey Kong sucks!"

"You know something? YOU SUCK!"

Frisbee can kick Mortal Kombat Special Edition's butt and wipe the floor with Donkey Kong any day.

nvoigt
11-23-2005, 01:08 AM
All you need is quick eyes and quicker fingers and you can be the king of the internet.


And where is the difference to sports where you need quick eyes and quick feet ?



Everyone feels like their right at the top, no matter how far off they actually are, and people like the feeling of being really good at something, no matter how trivial that thing is.


Same thing for sports. Can you say Curling ? Who invented that kind of "sport" ? Bored housewives ?


I don't see a difference between dropping out of college to be a sport star, not getting done anything and retiring at 25 with a knee injury and a bad back or dropping out of college to waste your life playing games. College is a healthy dose of education. Running a mile or more is a healthy dose of sport. Playing games in the evening is a healthy dose of entertainment. Dropping one part entirely for another is somewhat extreme from my point of view.

Govtcheez
11-23-2005, 05:24 AM
And where is the difference to sports where you need quick eyes and quick feet ?
Compare a top gamer like that loser Fatal1ty to a top sports star and that becomes pretty apparent.

nvoigt
11-23-2005, 06:59 AM
A top sports star is world famous and has to hire people to keep his bank account in check while I don't even know who Fatal1ty is. Probably he is practicing his 2674 ( double leet ) skills in his mothers basement.

SlyMaelstrom
11-23-2005, 07:08 AM
Yeah and making $150k a year doing it.

Govtcheez
11-23-2005, 07:38 AM
> I don't even know who Fatal1ty is.

Consider yourself lucky.


Yeah and making $150k a year doing it.
I saw an interview with him and he said he had made a whole 100K over 3 years of gaming. I make a hell of a lot more than that, and I take myself way less seriously than that dumbass. Also, he did indeed live in his parents' basement.

Thantos
11-23-2005, 08:05 AM
I've done high end raiding on two different games now. I left WoW before I got in a raiding guild ( grumbles about hunters being over populated ). This is after getting a level 60 and a level 48ish character.

In EverQuest (EQ) I was in the #3 guild for the server which was somewhere in the top 20 server wide. In City Of Heroes (CoH) my Supergroup only had one other guild as competition and we juggled the #1 serverwide spot depending on who got the kill on the new change first.

I've done the 5+ hour raids. In EQ I raided with a Korea based guild while here in Cali. Which meant 4am raids.

I did this while going to school, kicking butt in school, tutoring, programming, etc.

Contray to public belief high end raiding in a MMORPG doesn't require you to do nothing but play the game. In fact once you get to that level you've developed the skills needed to do somethings a lot faster then the "lesser" players. Case in point: CoH has/had a singular raidable mob. We could take him down with about 30ish people in about 15 minutes. After a group from the public sector found an easy way to take him down using large numbers of people there were open raids that needed over 100 people and it took them over 2 hours to do it.

So no I don't think MMORPGs are as addictive as people make them out to be. I do concede that to certain people with certain conditions it could be. But is it really the game's fault if those people play it?

Govtcheez
11-23-2005, 09:34 AM
> But is it really the game's fault if those people play it?

I don't think you're going to find much disagreement on a programming board in a thread where no one has less than a few hundred posts :)

SlyMaelstrom
11-23-2005, 09:45 AM
Yes, as I said initially, I don't blame the games, I blame parents. It's not a matter of monitoring their every move, it's just a matter of checking up on how their spending their day every so often. Even if a kid comes home from school, does his homework, takes out the trash, then uses the rest of his day to play a game, he's playing too much. They'll get into a really bad habit that they'll have trouble shaking.

Govtcheez
11-23-2005, 09:51 AM
I agree 100%, Sly. The obvious question that follows from that, though, is how much time on the computer is too much for a kid?

SlyMaelstrom
11-23-2005, 10:06 AM
Leave that up to parental intuition. :)

Just look at your kid on the computer every so often, and you'll know when he/she needs a break.

jamez
11-23-2005, 10:19 AM
The issue with video games and children that should be considered are this:

1. Monitor what they play and explain to them reality and fiction. if you shoot someone in real life, they dont come back and you dont have a reset button if you're somewhere you dont like.

2. dont allow the video games to be the babysitter. kids need to know how to interact with human to get along in this society. they can be taught how to manipulate the computers to do what they want. they dont need to think human are the same way.

3. get involved in your children's lives. if they dont get your attention positively, as in praise for an acheivement, kids have a tendency to get your attention negatively. the ultimate goal, even if it's negative, if that they feel they have your attention.

my son loves to play games. he's been on a computer since he was 3 years old. he's 7 years old now and he'll stay on the ps2 or toontown all day from the point he wakes up until it's time to go to sleep if you let him. Hell, a grown up will do that if they have the whole day to waste. video games have broken up some marriages and i've witnessed this beforehand as well. i'm not putting games down in no way, but prioritize when it comes to your kids. they wont be the only ones to suffer from it if you dont. =X

Govtcheez
11-23-2005, 10:25 AM
So what you're saying is basically, "be a responsible adult & parent"?

That's what I don't get - that makes perfect sense to anyone actually interested in video games or computers, but the people trying to push crap like this have never even touched them.

jamez
11-23-2005, 10:50 AM
yeah. i'm not saying, by any means, that video games are bad. i've enjoyed first person shooters and the family even gets together to chase each other around and cap each other off a few times. there have been days that we've let our son spend a full day on the computer or on a video game console. we all need days like that. the most important part was that we didnt let computers, weather learning, games or whatever, and video games rule his life. we understand that computers are the future and are now. we have 6+ computers in our house, n64, ps1 & 2 and we plan on getting other computers and other game consoles. we have mp3 players and gadgets that can keep us entertained, but we also take the time out to show our kids that those are not important and shouldnt rule their lives. you really have to pay attention to your kid, as someone mentioned earlier. they will tell you what they need, sometimes not in plain english. i've noticed when i dont pay attention to my son he starts to act up until he gets my attention. he really wants my attention, even if it means negatively. kids constantly look for your approval. they want to impress you. they mimic you. let them be themselves, they need that, but they need to know what they do is approved of. hell, we look for that as adults.

Govtcheez
11-23-2005, 10:54 AM
Sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on this parenting thing.

jamez
11-23-2005, 11:19 AM
hell. it's hit or miss. nobody ever gives you a manual and points you in the right direction. you just have to remember you were a kids once, what disappointed you and learn from your mistakes. kids want attention. they want to know they have boundries. think about it this way. our son was born early so we had to put beanie babies around him because he had to have a sense of 'boundries'. as he grew up, he still has to have a sense of bourndries. if he gets overstimulated, as other kids do, they need to be pulled out of the stimulation and allowed to desensitize for a bit then they'll be fine to hit it again. we, as adults, have laws which are our boundries. we always push those buttons to see what we can get away with, but if we didnt have those boundries, what would we do. some dont have respect for those boundries, others feel those boundries should be compromised, or be able to bend, for them. we're actually just children in big bodies, but some of us forget where we came from and get sour about life. =(

nvoigt
11-24-2005, 02:00 AM
As a sidenote, WoW is getting parental control in the next patch. The account holder can implement a schedule, when the account can be played. A special password for creating and changing the schedule is issued and kids will be kicked out of the game if they are staying online too long. A nice feature, but only a tool. Responsibility is still with the parents.

Thantos
11-24-2005, 08:12 AM
Interesting feature. I like the idea but you are right, its only a tool.

novacain
11-26-2005, 10:59 PM
I thing the interesting/new thing about this story is the fact it is set in China.

I thought these type of lawsuits were the provice of US/Western lawyers.

Dae
11-26-2005, 11:31 PM
I tend to get addicted to games. They definetly have an influence over my life. I played Diablo II for 5-8 hours/day in grade 7, off and on for 5 years. I played Morrowind a ton.

As for WoW, I pulled over 50 all-nighters, was on for at least 10 hours/day, and had to take half a year of grade 11 off in order to get my head straight (which it is not, somewhat). I logged over 1700 hours in 6 months, and game programming books I've been reading talk about 1600 in a year being "hardcore". I can't say it was as addictive as Diablo II was to me, but the graphics, and ventrillo, and the fact I was chilling to music most of the time really made up for it. Was I sleep deprived? yes. Did I get enough to drink? definetly not, but I still don't, thats just me (I don't drink much water). Have I killed myself yet? well I'm still here typing ain't I. Theres few problems I've developed with my addiction, none of which are serious or I couldn't have developed being a nerd, or an athlete. (e.g. I have a problem verbally expressing myself [sentences are more developed in my head, and come out wrong when said], bones in my toes aren't straight, little muscle in my legs). I usually went to bed around 6am, and got up around 3pm.

I wouldn't say that it influences any of my serious actions, but I definetly did skip school (pretended to be sick), stay up all night (even on test days), didn't do homework or study or .. read, or go out and have a life... almost ever (I went out once in 3 months).

Being experienced in knowing how long is too long (I did worry about my habits a lot), I would set the limit at 4 hours on the computer. I would also recommend not being allowed on 4 hours straight after school, because its hard doing homework when you are tired at 8-10pm.

Govtcheez
11-28-2005, 07:08 AM
>I wouldn't say that it influences any of my serious actions, but I definetly did skip school (pretended to be sick), stay up all night (even on test days), didn't do homework or study or .. read, or go out and have a life... almost ever (I went out once in 3 months).

How do you reconcile the first part of this sentence with the rest of it?

Thantos
11-28-2005, 07:18 AM
One question Dae. Where the heck were your parents / guardians?

When my mom felt I was spending too much time on the computer she took steps to stop me because that was her responsibility.

XSquared
11-28-2005, 09:46 AM
Yeah, I did the same thing with WoW. I played faar too much, missed most of my classes in my second university term. I went to so few classes, in fact, that I met some of my profs for the first time at the midterm. When I nearly failed out of university, I managed to scale it back. Right now, I'm working full-time, and maybe play WoW for 1-2 hours a night, and maybe 3-4 hours each day on weekends. Yes, it's a horribly addictive game, but after taking it to the extreme, I've realized that there are far more important things than games.

dimirpaw
11-28-2005, 06:53 PM
I'm not sure but there was a story about a asain couple who played WOW for too long and came back home with their baby dead. "We where only going to play for a bit at the internet cafe." So maby it is... I'll be getting into Guild Wars soon so I hope it isn't like WOW where i'll skip every day tasks for a game.

Dae
11-28-2005, 07:03 PM
>I wouldn't say that it influences any of my serious actions, but I definetly did skip school (pretended to be sick), stay up all night (even on test days), didn't do homework or study or .. read, or go out and have a life... almost ever (I went out once in 3 months).

How do you reconcile the first part of this sentence with the rest of it?

It doesn't. I actually meant to write that it hasn't influenced me to have any serious problems like depression or suicide, but went off onto the effects of playing.


One question Dae. Where the heck were your parents / guardians?

When my mom felt I was spending too much time on the computer she took steps to stop me because that was her responsibility.

I moved out, they disturbed my precious WoW time :p. Naw.. Thats how it used to be, when I was in grades 6-9 or so. I used to have a limit of 4 hours/day or so to play the computer, in grade 7 (which I spent on Diablo II), I actually didnt bump that up to 8 hours/day until nearly a year later. Like many teens, I begged for no bed time, and for grades to be my responsiblity. I've always been capable of getting A's easily in school, like a lot of people, but I pretty much eased from grade 4-12 on C- to C+ and sometimes A's. Mostly that was because I didn't ever ask for help on anything, and didn't like to spend ..well.. any time on homework (like most, but I took it to the extreme). Becuase I was still able to carry myself, I guess they didn't see any problem with it. My routine wasn't noticeably different from my normal one anyway. I usually always was in my room anyway. I don't know how I managed to get them to allow me to be in my room all the time (maybe its because they know I'd be going into computers as a career). So with that, and my addiction to computers over the years, and being almost 18 years, its pretty easy to see how they could let that happen. I keep saying their crazy, but they have high hopes for me, even with me taking half a year off, and still think I'll get where I want to be in life.

The whole go to bed at 5am, and get up at 3pm only happened on weekends, and after I took half a year off. It took me a few months to lower my addiction to MMORPGs. I'm doing fine now, that was a typo in the last post - it should be "get my head straight ( which it is now".

dimirpaw
11-30-2005, 05:13 AM
Well it's the same with me. I'm into computers and have been for over 10 years. My parents would allow me to go on the computer all day if I wanted to, since it was something I enjoyed it didn't hurt anyone. :)

ala negru
12-01-2005, 04:39 AM
ok he thing is the following: 5 million people play this game and the probability of anyone of these guy to have mantal problems or some hart problems is quite high

cboard_member
12-02-2005, 05:33 AM
I really don't see how someone could play videogames with such persistance, hell I have to get up and walk about every hour or so because my ass starts to numb and my eyes go dry.

Sure I've been addicted to games, but not in such depth that I'll sit and play it for hours on end. I think the most I've played a game in one hit was about 4 hours, when I got call of duty 2 the week before last - I think I was on for 2 hours, lunch then played for another couple hours.

How the hell can you block out hunger and thirst while playing a game? The furthest I go with online playing is refusing to leave during a match of CS:S for example; the same for raven shield (the only 2 games I really play online). I mean if I need food / drink or if my Ma asks me to do something, I wait until the next round and go spectator, but that's as far as it goes.

This isn't to say that I have much of a social life, however. I rarely go out if I don't need to, and yes, I have skipped school / college in favour of a lazy morning watching the comedy (7:30 till 9:00 woot) and then some tapping at whatever I'm working on programming wise (if at all) and then maybe some pr0n. The only times I do socialise is during college lunch times (I have a really f'd up timetable with massive breaks some days :().

Letting video games rule your life is the deepest depth of sadness. Really.

EDIT: Besides I haven't got the patience for RPG's. The most I stuck one out for about a week - Runescape. Got to level 13-ish and just got bored. I mean the whole concept of having a vast open world to explore is fine 'n' dandy, just in practice I find them monotonous.

SlyMaelstrom
12-02-2005, 06:42 AM
Runescape? That stupid MiniClips game?

cboard_member
12-02-2005, 10:37 AM
No Jagex, but yeah it is stupid: www.runescape.com
It sounds the kind of thing most of the gamers at cboard like though...

SlyMaelstrom
12-02-2005, 02:20 PM
Yeah, this game is hosted by miniclips now. It's less of an RPG and more of a well... crappy online flash game.

Dae
12-02-2005, 11:34 PM
No Jagex, but yeah it is stupid: www.runescape.com
It sounds the kind of thing most of the gamers at cboard like though...

I completely agree that its sad to let a computer game rule your life. However, you might not have the addictive personality to RPG's and MMORPG's that so many other people do - and could never understand. Especially if you are playing games like Runescape. I have not seen one person on these forums say they like Runescape. I have not met anyone in life that likes this game. I've seen it dissed on these forums, and in real life, though. Its a very old Java game that was more recently ported to "3D" - which is pretty bad 3D btw. I played the game for 1 hour and the personality of the people I saw in these games were children that needed easy access to a free game to talk to their friends, or adults who dont know anything about computers so they need to play a java applet. I don't think I could find myself trying to be a programmer to make games if Runescape is a game I play even semi-frequently.

If you like something and have read half the features that some of these new next-gen games will be implimenting, then its the perfect combination for addiction. One game I'm quite interested in atm is Darkfall. Great physics, do what you want, pvp with whoever you want, be a rebel or manage a city, etc. You should see the 6 vid previous of the upcoming Oblivion if you want to see a real next-gen game. Its about.. oh.. 2000 times better than Runescape, and thats no exaggeration. Taking into consideration the AI, music, sounds, graphics, physics, dynamics, and purely 3d of it. Then theres the fact that every entity in the game reacts to its environments with an AI feel: the dog smells food has been put out and goes to eat it, the dog is being hyper so the annoyed lady yells at him and eventually casts a stun spell on him, she reads, lights a fire, does things to pass time according to her AI; then theres real time generated plush forests, that look almost at nice as the movies; and news is passed by people in towns hearing news and spreading it - literally talking to eachother, and you can eavesdrop, try and get information by bribing/joking/intimidating/etc.; if you shoot an arrow at a tree, the arrow goes in the tree, if you shoot an arrow at metal, it bounces off, force is transferred, newtons laws are accounted for, etc; wind, sky, water, etc are all there. Runescape... ... ..... ..

As far as getting up and walking around - I've never felt I needed to. I never resist hunger, or thirst. I loved my chips and pop.

cboard_member
12-03-2005, 02:05 AM
I agree completely. Oblivion sounds brilliant, it really does, but when I play games like that I can't stick them out. I borrowed Morrowind from a mate the other day and was interested for about an hour or so, but the game just got boring.

I think I've narrowed it down though; I prefer games in which action is there from the start, but the action is "well done". RPG's / MMORGP's have the action, and sure I like the way it's done, but it really isn't there from the start and doesn't give me the satisfying feeling. Counter Strike is opposite, but way too far opposite. The action is there from the start, but it's not really interesting action - at least not until you put several weeks of play time in.

Timesplitters; the action is there from the beginning, easy to pick up, hard to master. Same for Raven Shield, Max Payne, UT2003 - the list goes on (as does my stack of CD cases). I'm a confessed "interesting action junkie".

The graphics of a game really don't bother me that much - sure I'd like to play every game in 1280x1024 with AF, AA and an FPS > 30, but I've gotten used to always having a PC that's 3 years behind the times. I'll gladly sit down to a game of Quake 2 or any of the Half Life series (opfor, blue shift, hldm, tf) and put up with the grainy textures and lack of antialiasing etc - the gameplay is more important. It's always nice to see a good looking game though.

Sadly, I do know around 4 people who religiously play Runescape. One of my classmates talks about ALL THE TIME - how he "pwned a lv23 n00b" - and he's got friends who are just as bad. Is there any hope for them?

The next game I'm positively vibrating in my chair for is Hitman: Blood Money. Big fan of the series, love the gameplay, but I will need a new graphics card to get a framerate above 10 FPS :eek:

EDIT: In case you're wondering, I've got an FX5200 128MB. Want to see it cry? Play Quake 4, and just try to use the special effects :p

Dae
12-03-2005, 11:58 PM
Sounds like you would be a 007 fan. Maybe not the single-player, but the multi-player I would think.

Yeah, I have a radeon 9800 128 mb and 1.4 GHz :-/ I'll have to upgrade sometime next summer when Oblivion comes out, and pick up Quake 4 too. Or maybe I should get an Xbox 360 - hopefully they aren't burning up by then.

cboard_member
12-04-2005, 02:16 AM
Yeah I've played a couple of the 007 series, they were pretty good.

Sounds like that upgrade is going to be expensive (if you're upgrading your processor too). I've got a 3.0 GHz so I should be alright there, although I would prefer an Athlon 64 instead of this Pentium. I'm looking to get a 6800GT / GS, which should be a bit cheaper by the time I plan to upgrade (June next year).

I'm not much of a console fan anymore. After I started playing games on the PC I really started to prefer it; better graphics, moddable games, larger communities, etc.

I've got a PS2 (it's my second one actually) that I keep to play Timesplitters: FP. I've still got my PS1 too - I bought it in 1996 and it still works fine, whereas my first PS2 broke down after 18 months or so with the infamous "Disc Read Error" :mad:

As if that isn't bad enough, the new PS2's (slimline) sold between August and December of 2004 are being recalled with an AC adapter problem (it overheats or something).

As far as I see it there are generally more problems with consoles.

VirtualAce
12-04-2005, 02:28 AM
If I made a game so addictive that people died over it and threads were created at boards all over the net about it and/or a government asked me to put disabling features in it....I would be in hog heaven.

Kudos to the designers. Dunce hats to the morons who died or let something die over it. Whether you watch TV, talk on the phone, read books, or play the computer.......they are all forms of wasting time the way you see fit. If they start crippling games then I'll just use my assembly skills to get that crap out of the game file and I'm sure someone else will come out with a patch or a hack on like day two of the release that disables that stuff.

It's my right to play the game. It's also my responsibility to know when enough is enough. For me games are completely awesome, however I find myself trying to program them more than playing them. My collection of games is huge and lots of them are sitting in boxes in the closet. None of them killed me.

Games don't kill people any more than movies do. But if you wanted to watch the entire Star Wars saga on one day, I'm sure if you neglect the normal everyday things of life, something bad would happen.

So pause the damn game, ........, crap, feed the baby, etc. If you have to go to work or school and you are playing instead....well it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you don't go to class you won't do well and if you don't go to work, you won't get paid or perhaps have a job.

Instead of games having these dumbass warning labels maybe they should have idiot alerts.

IDIOT ALERT: If you are one of those people who ignore common sense just to play this game, use of this product may result in personal injury and/or death. Please note that the company is hereby released from all liability resulting from your stupidity.

Gimme a break. Leave the damn games alone.

cboard_member
12-04-2005, 04:24 AM
There's nothing wrong with the game(s) - what I find hard to believe is that somebody could go as far as starving themselves. I think everybody enjoys video games of some sort and I know some people sacrifice social lives and normal daily activities, but death? Seriously, there must be something mentally wrong with anyone who can actually do that; proving yourself at a game doesn't mean you should take it that far.

Otherwise yeah, my hat comes off to all the developers of the world - even the bad ones, and especially the less known ones. Game development is hard work and rewarding, but I wouldn't be all that thrilled knowing I'd killed someone with my work, as flattered as I would be that they played it that much.

Dae
12-04-2005, 10:56 PM
I completely agree.

As an addict, I can say I was fully aware my actions.

Games don't kill people.

If an idiot died playing a game, he probably would have died otherwise from not looking both ways when trying to cross a highway.

cboard_member
12-05-2005, 12:45 AM
I completely agree.

As an addict, I can say I was fully aware my actions.

Games don't kill people.

If an idiot died playing a game, he probably would have died otherwise from not looking both ways when trying to cross a highway.

Couldn't have said it better myself. :)

jverkoey
12-05-2005, 02:57 AM
Warcraft is more addictive simply because there is no hangover

Thantos
12-05-2005, 07:19 AM
Warcraft is more addictive simply because there is no hangover
But there is that dang caffeine withdrawl.