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ILoveVectors
06-23-2005, 11:51 AM
Has anyone ever wondered why in just about every programming
lanague that uses dictionary words for keywords they are always
english, i may not be making sense, but many of the people that
develope these language are not american so why are they in
always in english? Are the compiler just making a comparison, i
wouldnt think so because I have seen other program taht were
clearly written for people who do not speak english but yet the
code still is in english? Is english just the choosen language or
am i missing something?

jverkoey
06-23-2005, 11:56 AM
I believe it's just because it's become more or less the standard language for programming. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone who's a bit more englightened on the subject than I.

Govtcheez
06-23-2005, 11:57 AM
English was good enough for Jesus, so it's good enough for me.

BobMcGee123
06-23-2005, 12:33 PM
Other languages suck.

SMurf
06-23-2005, 12:35 PM
I have actually put some thought into this very issue. The thing is, English is quite a compact language if you think about it. Keywords are straightforward and don't need to be qualified with some sort of prefix in order to make sense. This differs from other languages such as French, which, among other things, has no concept of "it", introducing all sorts of punctuation into keywords in order to make them linguistically acceptable.

That said, there's not really any reason why keywords can't be localized by a compiler in order to aid beginners in actual programming rather than having to learn English first. The disadvantage to this would be that source code would be localized and thus require every compiler to be able to understand these "foreign" synonyms.

Essentially, it would be a bit of chore to manage. ;)

hk_mp5kpdw
06-23-2005, 12:46 PM
Plus all those languages that insist on assigning a gender to every possible type object suck. What do I care if it's a female plate or a male rock or something stupid like that? Forget that, it's just a simple plate and a simple rock, no gender involved. :D

jverkoey
06-23-2005, 12:51 PM
Plus all those languages that insist on assigning a gender to every possible type object suck. What do I care if it's a female plate or a male rock or something stupid like that? Forget that, it's just a simple plate and a simple rock, no gender involved. :D

And how :D

Waldo2k2
06-23-2005, 02:05 PM
besides the genderless nature of the english language, english is also the unofficial language of commerce. It could also have to do with some historical roots also, many major programming languages were developed by people who spoke english.

ober
06-23-2005, 02:18 PM
I wouldn't necessarily say engish is the "unofficial" language. I work for a multi-national company, and our default language for everything is english. I think this is common in most parts of the world because, for instance, French is only spoken by a very small percentage of the world. English on the other hand is the language used by many countries from birth. Then again, there are probalby more chinese or spanish speaking people than anything, but you'd have to program with funny symbols and all that damn punctuation in those languages.

dra
06-24-2005, 02:43 AM
I would think that it's simply because English is so common. As far as English being more straightforward, I wouldn't think so. A language like Japanese is much more concise and expressive (in my opinion).

Also, I remember reading somewhere that English comes the closest to becoming the "universal language".

arjunajay
06-24-2005, 06:08 AM
I have read in some research paper reviews etc, that some so-clled 'gender languages' are far better than english in programming.
eg: Sanskrit ? (In news papers ??).

Besides english may be the 'universal language'; but both French and spanish(!!) are very popular too?
Edit: Why do you say French is not popular? (Eventhough I personally don't know french).

ober
06-24-2005, 06:50 AM
Umm... because mainly only people in France and a handful in Canada speak it?

arjunajay
06-24-2005, 07:08 AM
that's a point...

SMurf
06-24-2005, 07:09 AM
A fair few in the former French colonies in Africa do as well.. But Ober ignores it mainly because of the Canadian link. :p

Zach L.
06-24-2005, 07:32 AM
I've not been to Africa, but all of the art dealers from Africa that I've come across (a significant number, from many different countries) are all very fluent in French. Then again, I don't know that there is much of a software industry in Africa...

Besides, they also use French in south Louisiana.

ILoveVectors
06-24-2005, 10:20 PM
Nice reply's, so i forgot i even posted this, thought
i just dreamed it :/, ohh well thanks for your input.

Lurker
06-24-2005, 11:00 PM
To reply to as many of you as I want:

1. English wasn't even close to existing when Jesus was alive. Nor, even, is English of the same linguistic family.

2. Chinese is number one in speakers, English is second, but English is more widespread throughout the world.

3. All languages are expressive in their own ways. Programming, however, requires no expression - you aren't writing a poem; there are only a few choice words such as "for" "main" and other essentially expressionless words.

4. Erm....extra punctuation? Funny characters? There is more punctuation, as far as I know, in English than Spanish (even counting, what I think you are saying, the double ! and ?'s). As for funny characters that need to be memorized, yes, that is a problem. But english is close to doing that - "laugh" isn't pronounced anything like it is spelled; What is the difference between having random letters corresponding to a word and having one picture corespond to it? Of course, the Chinese system IS more complicated; you usually cannot guess at any pronunciation, so it is harder in that aspect.

5. Sanskrit is an ancient langauge. Why not use latin for programming? Because YOU DON'T NEED it. You could make up the damn words - "quia" for "if", "jahs" for "main", it DOESN'T MATTER. In this case, it's all basically the exact same.


Other languages suck
French gave English over 30% of English's vobabulary.

Twigstar
06-25-2005, 03:16 AM
I love all these stats being pulled out from nowhere....But I'm going to be hypocritical!

English is the most widespread language in the world. Because of the British Empire, and now the American hyper-imperialistic rule over the world, it is highly advisable for foreign countries to learn it. (Due to commerce and American political influence (and the British political influence before them).

Plus all the mainstream languages were made by English speaking folk.

So that's why they're English.


Also, French is actually the second most widespread language in the world.

I hate it when people spring up stats from nowhere ;) ...But a look through some government and popular organisation owned websites will help you out if you become curious on the matters of the worlds linguistic ways.

- Twigstar

nickname_changed
06-25-2005, 04:04 AM
Heres my guess:

C is in english because it was invented at Bell labs in the USA (IIRC).

C++ uses english because it extends C.

C# uses english because it was created by Microsoft (a USA company).

Basic/Pascal/Cobol etc were probably all in C either because they were invented in a predominantly english country, or because they derive from other languages that were, or at the time they realized most of the programmers around knew English.

Most programming languages today use English because those of yesterday did, and because 90% of programmers out there are used to programming in english.

Personally if I had to learn spanish just to learn PHP, I'd be pretty dissapointed.

As an example, lets take two C programmers, Bob and Bill. Bill speaks Mandarin natively, but also knows decent English (which he probably would to use C), and Bob only speaks English because that's all he needs. If you were inventing a new programming language, which would be smarter - Mandarin or English?

When you invent your own programming language, use Spanish or French or Chinese or whatever you speak natively. Chances are it won't be as popular as it could have been if you wrote it in English.

If Bulgarians had invented the computer, along with assembly language and BASIC, then maybe we'd all be speaking Bulgarianese in code. But they didn't, an English-speaking country did, and thats the way it happened. For the same reason URL's aren't written in chinese.

jverkoey
06-25-2005, 04:12 AM
Can you explain....bongo language (http://eagle.auc.ca/~dreid/) for the net then? :confused: :confused: :(

MathFan
06-25-2005, 04:14 AM
I hate it when people spring up stats from nowhere ;) ...

Lurker is actually right that about 30% of the English language has an origin in French, and his claim is not at all "from nowhere":


A computerised survey of about 80,000 words in the old Shorter Oxford Dictionary (3rd edition) was published in Ordered Profusion by Thomas Finkenstaedt and Dieter Wolff (1973) which estimated the origin of English words as follows:





French (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=5pj0j4mjalnpd?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=French+language&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc02b), including Old French and early Anglo-French: 28.3% (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=5pj0j4mjalnpd?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=List+of+English+words+of+French+origin&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc02b)
Latin, including modern scientific and technical Latin: 28.24%
Old and Middle English, Old Norse (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=5pj0j4mjalnpd?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Old+Norse+language&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc02b), and Dutch (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=5pj0j4mjalnpd?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Dutch+language&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc02b): 25%
Greek: 5.32%
No etymology given: 4.03%
Derived from proper names: 3.28%
All other languages contributed less than 1%

Twigstar
06-25-2005, 08:17 AM
"French is only spoken by a very small percentage of the world." By Ober.

Oh no, you mistook me! I was actually addressing those who said something similar to this sentance - And I'm well aware of the creation of English via the romance languages :)

MathFan
06-25-2005, 08:24 AM
"French is only spoken by a very small percentage of the world." By Ober.

Oh no, you mistook me! I was actually addressing those who said something similar to this sentance - And I'm well aware of the creation of English via the romance languages :)

Oh, I'm very sorry.... :o Yeah, I misunderstood....

Govtcheez
06-27-2005, 02:06 PM
1. English wasn't even close to existing when Jesus was alive. Nor, even, is English of the same linguistic family.Oh yeah? The Bible is in English. Proof positive.

gcn_zelda
06-27-2005, 02:10 PM
Oh, man. He got you there, Lurker.

confuted
06-27-2005, 05:12 PM
English has the best technical vocabulary of any of the languages (also the highest/second highest word count, depending on which study you ask). German is a close second. Other languages, however, do not compare. It's why Torvald's commented the linux kernel code in English, even though it wasn't his native language.

Lurker
06-27-2005, 05:30 PM
Oh yeah? The Bible is in English. Proof positive.

Jesus didn't write the bible, nor was it originally in English.

Govtcheez
06-27-2005, 07:59 PM
For someone who's trying so hard to sound smart you're having a hell of a time with obvious sarcasm.

Lurker
06-28-2005, 10:04 AM
If you don't see my posts as sarcasm as well you need to re-read them :) .

BobMcGee123
06-28-2005, 10:42 AM
The united states is eventually going to take over the world anyway, so english for everything makes the most sense.

heil bush as mein fuhrer