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Aerie
01-06-2005, 03:49 PM
Does anyone know of any good alternatives to Firefox?

I'm looking for something with the same basic featureset, but more streamlined, and that won't end up cluttered with too many features it doesn't need, as FF is starting to do.

Looking for open source programs only, just wondering if anyone here would know...

-KEN-
01-06-2005, 03:56 PM
You won't find anything that fits the bill better than Opera. Greatest browser ever, who cares if it's not OSS? It implements lots of features natively (and much better, I might add) that FireFox plugins try to tack-on. It's got tabs, gestures, etc, etc: and everything works nearly flawlessly. IMHO, Opera is both snappier and renders faster than FF, too.

Aerie
01-06-2005, 03:57 PM
Does Opera still cost money for the "full" version?

Edit: looks like it does.

Scribbler
01-06-2005, 03:58 PM
Which OS?

If you're using Windows, I think FF is still the only way to go. Without any extensions installed it's still pretty streamlined compared to the other browsers available for windows. However I know what you mean about features being added that it doesn't need. The initial premise behind Firefox is slowly being forgotten as too many users of FF are screaming for default features to be added.

If you're using *nix, I think Konqueror has made great strides if you're using the KDE desktop. If not KDE, then probably Epiphany or Galeon.

Aerie
01-06-2005, 04:03 PM
I use Windows and Linux.

And yes, "slowly," if you define lightspeed to be slow.

Edit: I'm looking at K-Meleon, but my hopes aren't high.

Thantos
01-06-2005, 04:04 PM
Opera doesn't cost anything for the full version. It just costs to remove the ads.

-KEN-
01-06-2005, 04:05 PM
Does Opera still cost money for the "full" version?

Edit: looks like it does.
Eh, you get google's text ads at the top. There's really no other way to go, though. Sure, you could use something like Maxthon, but that's just an IE Wrapper. Same security holes and all.

Aerie
01-06-2005, 04:21 PM
I'm starting to like K-Meleon. It's FOUR TIMES AS FAST as Firefox on my(non spyware/virus encumbered) system running a gig of RAM and an Athlon XP 2500.

NO browser should be as slow as FF is once I leave it running for an hour or so.

Some improvements need to be made(weird tab behavior, etc), but it's very much closer to my dream browser than FF now is.

I haven't seen a page render this fast since Phoenix 0.3.

Edit: I consider the presence of ads to be an inexcusable flaw in a product... I'd like Opera otherwise, I think, but charging for software(as an intrinsic product, it's reasonable to charge for service and support) in this day and age is archaic and only really reasonable for specialized programs.

-KEN-
01-06-2005, 04:29 PM
Should the rendering time in K-Meleon be all that much different than using FF? They're both gecko-based. The interface in K-M looks pretty clunky, but I guess it's worth a try.

gcn_zelda
01-06-2005, 04:31 PM
With Firefox and IE so largely used, I don't see how Opera makes money.

Aerie
01-06-2005, 04:38 PM
From all the ads they serve on their free version, theoretically.

K-Meleon is definitely a bit clunky, but it's better than FF, I think.

And yeah, it made a lot of difference. Not sure why, but I think it's because FF's executable is way compressed(instead of just written efficiently) and so FF takes an inordinate amount of RAM: With 6 tabs open in FF, with mostly text pages loaded, FF is using 74 MB of RAM. That's crazy. With 9 layers open in KM, mostly heavily graphical pages, I'm at just over 30 megs of RAM. Either FF is grossly inefficient, or it's not releasing RAM properly.

Aerie
01-06-2005, 04:50 PM
Oh, did I mention that FF now interferes with some 3d games?

It seems to, under certain circumstances, assume control of the video card, which means, at those times, that launching a hardware-accelerated 3d game will fail.

cerin
01-06-2005, 04:59 PM
Sbc-yahoo dsl is good I have it but I use firefox instead. It has a pop-up blocker. I just got ........ed at it for some reason......

Govtcheez
01-06-2005, 05:02 PM
> Sbc-yahoo dsl is good I have it

Wait, this is a browser now?

Thantos
01-06-2005, 05:05 PM
They have their own browser like AOL. I only use sbc for the DSL. I refused to install their crap (like the connection manager and stuff like that).

cerin
01-06-2005, 05:07 PM
I installed their "crap" but I don't use it anymore.

Govtcheez
01-06-2005, 05:16 PM
Is AOL's browser still just IE integrated into it? I'm pretty sure that's what it used to be, at least.

Sean! Answer me!

cerin
01-06-2005, 05:19 PM
I dispise AOL. DDDDDDDDDDDDDIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Thantos
01-06-2005, 05:32 PM
Dang it I just wasted my 3700 post on this thread:

I'm not sure Govt, last time I had AOHell is before I was in HS. Heck Prodigy was still going strong at the time.

Govtcheez
01-06-2005, 05:45 PM
I dispise AOL. DDDDDDDDDDDDDIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
That's an enlightened opinion coming from someone who used SBC's browser.

cerin
01-06-2005, 05:47 PM
Evidently you missed my other posts..........
Sbc-yahoo dsl is good I have it but I use firefox instead.


I installed their "crap" but I don't use it anymore.

Pay more attention :D

B0bDole
01-06-2005, 06:01 PM
AOL I belieave is still using IE wrapper, but IIRC are dev. a new one

Kleid-0
01-06-2005, 06:14 PM
You could always go with Lynx, a very powerful text-based browser! If there isn't one for Windows, you could easily get one of those handy programs that emulate Linux programs in Windows ;) *slides card across desk* Next question! hehe
------------------
Edit:
OMG I can't believe I forgot about Avant. I used that ALL of the time in Windows, before I deleted my C drive and switched to linux because my Mom came in with a shotgun and said "YO BETTA PUT THE HOT DOG IN THE MICROWAVE AND ...INSTALL LINUX", and I was like "AIIGHT", and that's the story behind that.

But back to Avant, the browser is really sweet-ass, I mean we're talkin' Omega Super Man IE here! Get Avant HERE (http://www.avantbrowser.com/), it's freeeeeee, like a bird!

B0bDole
01-06-2005, 06:42 PM
IE Wrappers are stupid

Zach L.
01-06-2005, 07:41 PM
>> it's freeeeeee, like a bird!
Beware of anti-aircraft fire.

Kleid-0
01-06-2005, 10:03 PM
It's anti-aircraft missile protected ;)

gcn_zelda
01-06-2005, 10:09 PM
But I have anti-anti-aircraft missile missiles.

They'll take out your anti-aircraft missiles like a grape in a microwave.

Kleid-0
01-06-2005, 10:15 PM
I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you ...............................
--------------
[Edit]
My posts are starting not to make sense again, no more kidnegarten jokes for Kleid! *writes down for self*

gcn_zelda
01-06-2005, 10:18 PM
My mommy can kick your mommy's butt.

Kleid-0
01-06-2005, 10:21 PM
:( Mommy jokes are bad

ober
01-07-2005, 12:16 PM
I'm an Opera fan too. And I bought it as a student so it only cost me $15 bucks, but I love it so much I'd pay full price again for it if I had to. It really is the best browser I've ever used bar-none.

RoD
01-07-2005, 12:28 PM
i paid full rpice for opera, and ill do it again if needed

Salem
01-07-2005, 12:53 PM
Mmm, does this help you firefox'ers?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1748707,00.asp

B0bDole
01-07-2005, 03:00 PM
>Mmm, does this help you firefox'ers?

I just tried it, and I see a very noticable difference. :)

CornedBee
01-11-2005, 05:17 AM
Activated it in Mozilla (but a friendly 4 parallel connections max) and I must say, it's really, really nice for messageboards such as this, with their countless little buttons and avatars and all these images.

BMJ
01-11-2005, 02:34 PM
I recently switched back to Opera from Firefox.

Firefox has some nice features (extensions), but Opera is so fast, I <3 Opera. :) Opera flips and scrolls through tabs/pages faster than Firefox (even tweaked) which makes it "feel" quicker.

Firefox and Opera are both nice, but Opera really does live up to the title "Fastest Browser on Earth." :cool:

Kleid-0
01-11-2005, 06:18 PM
I recently switched back to Opera from Firefox.
You gotta give it a couple more days! Let it soak in a little, at first it's foreign and you're on autohate, but just a couple more days and you'll be a native firefoxer browserer! :)

MadCow257
01-11-2005, 06:21 PM
The firefox tweak is so wierd. Blank page...bam. Screen fully loaded. I can't tell if it's really faster or not. Normally, it doesnt stay on the blank page very long but you can see the refresh lines going down the page as it loads. Does anyone know anymore FF tweaks?

axon
01-11-2005, 06:41 PM
The firefox tweak is so wierd. Blank page...bam. Screen fully loaded. I can't tell if it's really faster or not. Normally, it doesnt stay on the blank page very long but you can see the refresh lines going down the page as it loads. Does anyone know anymore FF tweaks?


you can try: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c2coff=1&q=firefox+tuning&spell=1

or this (tuning is often misspelled) : http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=firefox+tunning&btnG=Search

ober
01-12-2005, 10:39 AM
You gotta give it a couple more days! Let it soak in a little, at first it's foreign and you're on autohate, but just a couple more days and you'll be a native firefoxer browserer! :)
Have you tried Opera? Can you make a true comparison? I challenge anyone to try both for an extended period and tell me that FF is better. I dare you.

BMJ
01-12-2005, 11:23 AM
You gotta give it a couple more days! Let it soak in a little, at first it's foreign and you're on autohate, but just a couple more days and you'll be a native firefoxer browserer! :)I used Firefox for a little over a month before I decided to switch back to Opera.

-KEN-
01-12-2005, 01:21 PM
Honestly, I've tried using FF, but I think it's probably the XUL interface that drives me up the walls the most. It's even worse when I'm on OSX. I have tons of issues with the browser, though. Extensions are nice, and rendering's pretty good, too.

Opera, as has been said, is just overall "faster,", and a nicer product.

Shakti
01-12-2005, 01:42 PM
I used Opera for 6+ months, now I use FF. I dont know what is better really, just that it feels better for some reason.

algi
01-12-2005, 03:01 PM
Opera takes up too much of the screen. It's fancy but has too much junk on the page. Fire fox is nice and basic

-KEN-
01-12-2005, 03:56 PM
Opera takes up too much of the screen. It's fancy but has too much junk on the page. Fire fox is nice and basic

Agreed that by default there's too much crud, but it's none too bad. My firefox is set up the exact same, yet takes up slightly MORE space! Here's Opera:

Zach L.
01-12-2005, 04:33 PM
Honestly, I've tried using FF, but I think it's probably the XUL interface that drives me up the walls the most. It's even worse when I'm on OSX. I have tons of issues with the browser, though. Extensions are nice, and rendering's pretty good, too.

Opera, as has been said, is just overall "faster,", and a nicer product.
I've had no trouble with FF on OSX. Then again, I haven't added any extensions to it either.

I used Opera for a while, and, to be honest, for what I do, I do not see a whole lot of difference between the two.

Scribbler
01-12-2005, 05:49 PM
I challenge anyone to try both for an extended period and tell me that FF is better. I dare you.
I've already done this, and I personally find FF to be better.

I personally prefer the UI of Firefox over Opera. I also choose not to use a product which promotes adware. I also prefer a browser without feature bloat, allowing me to have only those features I want.

I also find that Firefox's Gecko engine lays out websites better than Opera. Additionally I find far fewer websites break with FF than Opera. I also find FF's rendering speed to be comparable to Operas (I really don't know why so many people claim Opera is faster, if it is, it's so miniscule it's imperceptable to me).

I also reject Opera's claims that all the neato features in browsers today are all complements of Opera. While some of them were Opera designed features, by far not a majority of them. Opera as well also has features other browsers implemented first.

I also reject Opera users finding fault in having to install extensions to get all the features of Opera. After all, that was the general point of FF to begin with, to only install those features you want. I find this as a bonus, not a fault.

I could also go on and on about specific FF features and UI issues which I find preferrable over Opera, however that would be personal preferences and not faults in Opera.

Despite all that, there is one issue alone that makes FF preferable to me over Opera. I find the FF community more mature and level headed when I frequent their support forums. FF users tend to let Opera users be, let them judge for themselves which browser they use, and be content with it. Opera communities are entirely different though. Just mentioning FF in an Opera forum begins a rapid chain of angry accusations of being 'FF Fanboys', and rabid comments debunking FF.

The Mozilla group focuses on promoting it's products. Opera focuses on debunking other products (and not always accurately). Many of Operas claims against FF are based on problems during a very popular and widely utilized beta period where too many users seemed to forget they were using a beta product, and grumbled when they pretty much had to place a lot of effort into installing each upgrade (otherwise problems abound everywhere). Now that FF is at a stable release, many/most of those claims are obsolete, or untrue.

Kleid-0
01-12-2005, 05:53 PM
I tried Opera for a small amount of time, and I didn't like it. If I would've spent more time with the browser I probably would've liked it a lot! When I was on Microsoft Windows, I used Avant (an IE wrapper), a GREAT browser. On Linux I use Mozilla, mainly because it's really all I need to view webpages, and I'm too lazy to try the others :)

-KEN-
01-12-2005, 06:14 PM
I've had no trouble with FF on OSX. Then again, I haven't added any extensions to it either.

I used Opera for a while, and, to be honest, for what I do, I do not see a whole lot of difference between the two.

I use it on OSX exclusively (I would love to use Safari, but it refuses to stay in a single window :(), and the non-native interface bugs me. It also seems a little slow to me, but I don't know. It doesn't bug me all that much. It could also just be angering me that the FF theme I use on Windows sometimes messes up on OSX, even though it seems like it was designed for it.

>>Everything that Scribbler said.

Woah there buddy, calm down. Way to reverse the elitism that you feel from the Opera community into FireFox elitism. They're both great browsers, and some people prefer one over the other. We can agree to disagree.

Scribbler
01-12-2005, 08:04 PM
Way to reverse the elitism that you feel from the Opera community into FireFox elitism. They're both great browsers, and some people prefer one over the other. We can agree to disagree.
You're absolutely correct. I do recognize that Opera is a very good browser. I am embarrassed to admit that I fell prey to the recent influx of Opera vs FF debates I seem to see everywhere lately. And for that I apologize.