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Perspective
12-16-2004, 02:04 PM
Did anyone else get their name in the add? Im in there :)

http://www.mozilla.org/images/nyt_ad_large_2004.png
http://www.mozilla.org/press/nytimes-firefox-final.pdf

axon
12-16-2004, 02:08 PM
thats pretty cool - I'm not there though :(

Govtcheez
12-16-2004, 02:17 PM
I'm not in it, but Jeremy Cook is. I'm going to pretend I'm him :(

anonytmouse
12-16-2004, 02:51 PM
Definition of ironic: I had to fire up IE to view that image as nothing showed up in Firefox!

axon
12-16-2004, 02:52 PM
everything showed up fine for me in FF

anonytmouse
12-16-2004, 02:58 PM
The problem is that, at least on XP, FF leaks memory like a popped balloon leaks air. As a result, after a while, things start failing. Currently FF is using 270MB of virtual memory, of which about 200MB is physical. Last time it got to 570MB virtual with over 400MB physical before uncermoniously crashing (not surprising on a machine with 512MB of physical memory).

I downloaded the tabbed browser extension so that I could save the session and restart the browser more often, but this is slightly annoying for a product that is supposed to be out of beta.

Aerie
12-16-2004, 03:17 PM
Lotta' bugs in FF.

It seriously is NOT a release quality product, no idea what the devs were smoking when they pushed it out the door like that...

It's still my fav. browser, has been since version .3, but it's still a beta, if you get down to it.

kermi3
12-16-2004, 03:36 PM
I love "The Funk Family." Anyone else find cool names?

RoD
12-16-2004, 04:07 PM
i dont like browsers that come prebundled with spyware. I'll keep my opera.

axon
12-16-2004, 04:36 PM
>>i dont like browsers that come prebundled with spyware.<<

:roleyes:



The problem is that, at least on XP, FF leaks memory like a popped balloon leaks air. As a result, after a while, things start failing. Currently FF is using 270MB of virtual memory, of which about 200MB is physical. Last time it got to 570MB virtual with over 400MB physical before uncermoniously crashing (not surprising on a machine with 512MB of physical memory).

I downloaded the tabbed browser extension so that I could save the session and restart the browser more often, but this is slightly annoying for a product that is supposed to be out of beta.


I've never had such problems - FF never crushed on me

Zach L.
12-16-2004, 04:51 PM
I love "The Funk Family." Anyone else find cool names?
There is a 'DATE Ken'.

gcn_zelda
12-16-2004, 07:24 PM
Say How can you tell?

7smurfs
12-16-2004, 08:00 PM
Can anybody tell me why Firefox is better than Mozilla for web browsing?

Lurker
12-16-2004, 08:11 PM
i dont like browsers that come prebundled with spyware. I'll keep my opera.

:) :) :)

adrianxw
12-17-2004, 04:52 AM
There are too many sites that don't display properly in FF. I know that is not the fault of FF per se, it is non-compliant coding at the sites, but the sites work with IE, and they aren't going to change for a minority browser.

sand_man
12-17-2004, 05:44 AM
>> and they aren't going to change for a minority browser

they will if more people use other browsers.

and i dont have any mem problems with FF or crash problems. (and my computer hasnt been rebooted in 2wks 5days 7hrs 31mins 30secs

gcn_zelda
12-17-2004, 02:18 PM
I've never had any problems with FF, although, I reboot every time I get off.

alphaoide
12-17-2004, 03:49 PM
I thought the memory leak only existed in release before 1.0PR. I used to have the leak in 0.9 I believe, but not in 1.0 currently

>> they aren't going to change for a minority browser.
Firefox has gained more respect from more web designers than IE. Most would also start designing for firefox first and then hack it to work in IE. Things will change. Not because firefox is the minority, because it's more standard compliant. If web designers could make sites look good in IE, they sure can make them look as good (if not better) in firefox

B0bDole
12-17-2004, 04:07 PM
IE is the minority when it comes to standards compliance

so I second alphaoide

adrianxw
12-18-2004, 04:09 AM
Alpha and Bob,

I quite agree that IE allows many non-standards to work and FF does not. I also know that IE has 90% of the browser market.

Now, suppose I am the boss of a company with a vast website. My IT people come to me and say they need $n,000,000 to rewrite the whole thing so that users of FF can see it. I have a shareholders meeting tomorrow, they want dividends increasing. What am I going to tell the IT man?

Don't get me wrong, I applaud standards. I also live in todays world though, not some future paradise. Things hopefully will change, but if FF wants to be a major player, it has to "work" for the simple Joe Public, fr the sites he wants to look at, and right now, it does not.

alphaoide
12-18-2004, 10:39 AM
Okay, not everybody will have the fund, but quite few major websites have redesigned and most importantly any new websites will likely to be compatible with firefox (and also IE) because of the increasing awareness of web designers for cross-browser design.
I kinda follow the web-designing business, they don't take the small share of firefox lightly. Many (if not all) respectable names in web-designing industry express their suppport toward firefox.

DeepFyre
12-21-2004, 07:20 PM
Arrggghhh .... Firefox is such a good browser, but it is pretty buggy, at least lately its been. 1.0 seemed a lot buggier than .9 for some reason. and yes, also get those memory crashes sometimes too ... but thats only if i leave my computer on for like a month. :)



i dont like browsers that come prebundled with spyware. I'll keep my opera.


i dont like browsers that come prebundled with ads. I'll keep my firefox.

:) :) :)

Spitball
12-21-2004, 08:08 PM
Yeah. Firefox is pretty good, but when I set my computer on fire it crashed!

Scribbler
12-21-2004, 08:58 PM
IE lost it's 90% share status months ago. Average statistical comparisons show it to recently average between 70-80%.

Keep in mind too, it's not just a browser statistic to watch anymore. Windows itself is rapidly losing ground as OS of choice. *nix and Mac are showing an intimidating presence as well (and still growing), which makes IE a moot issue altogether. Even KDE developers have broken ground on incorprating Mozilla's gecko engine into Konqueror.

Not to mention HP's recent endorsement of Firefox. That'll be a serious blow to MS when HP machines are packaged with Firefox pre installed. Recent studies have also shown other PC manufacturers are wasting an obscene amount of resources on tech support calls due adware/spyware, and are contemplating bundling Firefox as well.

Mozilla's impact has been a long time coming, but the snowball effect has recently accelerated to a noticeable level.

B0bDole
12-21-2004, 09:06 PM
>My IT people come to me and say they need $n,000,000 to rewrite the whole thing so that users of FF can see it. I have a shareholders meeting tomorrow, they want dividends increasing. What am I going to tell the IT man?


You're write. Though, very wrong.... Big companies with IT "men" build their site right the first time. Using the standards, not FrontPage extensions, IFrames, and countless other IE specific crap. Good try though.

edit: I challenge you, and anyone else for that matter, to show me a website of a "big" company that doesn't display correctly in FF and only works correctly in IE.

CompiledMonkey
12-21-2004, 10:15 PM
Lotta' bugs in FF.

It seriously is NOT a release quality product, no idea what the devs were smoking when they pushed it out the door like that...

It's still my fav. browser, has been since version .3, but it's still a beta, if you get down to it.

:rolleyes:

sean
12-21-2004, 10:20 PM
I too liked version 0.9 better than 1.0. Just a few little things that bug me. I never noticed too many bugs in the beta either.

Kleid-0
12-21-2004, 11:53 PM
*sigh* Only if there was IE for Linux, I am sillyI am sillyI am sillyI am silly... :(

B0bDole
12-22-2004, 02:10 AM
IE is wetardud

edit: on a side note, PC manufacturers (hp, dell, etc) are thinking about bundling FF with their PCs to eliviate the tech support needed for spyware/adware problems from their users using IE. :)

adrianxw
12-22-2004, 03:16 AM
Scribbler, your argument would carry more weight if instead of "Average statistical comparisons" and "Recent studies", you provided links to independent verifiable sources. If you browse anti MS sites the worlkd over you find unsubstantiated claims like that.

Bobdole, I tried to post a link from FF to the BBC which didn't work, it demostrates a fault I have already posted on the FF forums, it was showing a film of the David Blunkett saga, but before I could do so, I happened to try adjusting the sound level, which wiped out the picture and a few seconds later froze completely...

Nyda
12-22-2004, 05:11 AM
Bobdole, I tried to post a link from FF to the BBC which didn't work, it demostrates a fault I have already posted on the FF forums,

Mozilla.org uses their own Bugzilla product to track bugs. I don't think the forum is the right place to report them.


it was showing a film of the David Blunkett saga, but before I could do so, I happened to try adjusting the sound level, which wiped out the picture and a few seconds later froze completely...

Isn't this more of a plugin issue? I don't have a windows machine available, but on Linux you have to install some plugin to watch videos in the browser. The choice there is up to you, but I think most people use the mplayerplug-in.

adrianxw
12-22-2004, 06:03 AM
>>> don't think the forum is the right place

One of the forums is for reporting problems and getting technical support. I had no wish to spend half an hour filling in the on screen forms giving a load of personal details out simply to do them a favour by reporting my observations.

I would agree, it is probably a plugin problem, but the point I KEEP making is that the average Joe doesn't give a damn what the problem is, he clicks a link on the BBC's website. If he uses IE it works, if he uses FF it doesn't. Now is Joe going to spend time trying to find out what the problem is, bearing in mind that 90% of the "Joe's" out there are not computer types, simply users, or is he going to use IE because there, it works?

I realise that by criticising an OS product, all the MS haters, the OS fans and uncle Tom Cobbly will regard me as the spawn of the devil, but until projects like FF realise that they have to get the "Joe's" onboard, not just the nerds, they won't make an impact.

Govtcheez
12-22-2004, 06:34 AM
> which makes IE a moot issue altogether

Yeah, that 80% market share makes it a moot point. Get real. Just because *nix and Mac are taking fractions of a point away doesn't make IE any less important. Like adrian says, I think your numbers are bull anyway, until I see an unbiased study.

> i dont like browsers that come prebundled with ads. I'll keep my firefox.

There's a small banner in the upper right that I don't even notice unless I look straight at it.

> all the MS haters,

Dude, you misspelled "M$"

adrianxw
12-22-2004, 08:47 AM
>>> small banner in the upper right

There is? I just loaded FF and can't see it.

Perspective
12-22-2004, 10:10 AM
>>> small banner in the upper right

There is? I just loaded FF and can't see it.

he's refering to Opera. The free version ships with embeded adds in the toolbar.

Govtcheez
12-22-2004, 10:13 AM
> There is? I just loaded FF and can't see it.

Perspective's right - sorry, I should have clarified. The banner rarely changes and it's almost never distracting. I don't notice it at all, 95% of the time.

Nyda
12-22-2004, 10:33 AM
I had no wish to spend half an hour filling in the on screen forms giving a load of personal details out simply to do them a favour by reporting my observations.

I'd agree that bugzilla has a poor user-interface and I'd not expect any of the "Joes" out there to take the time and effort to find out how to use that thing -- but they don't ask any personal questions except for an email. And you're not an ordinary Joe either :-)


I would agree, it is probably a plugin problem, but the point I KEEP making is that the average Joe doesn't give a damn what the problem is, he clicks a link on the BBC's website.

Both the Realmedia versions as well as the Windows media versions work for me. I'm using Epiphany (which is using Mozillas Gecko engine) though, but I doubt there's any significant difference in the backend. Maybe it's a Windows specific problem or... you got unlucky.


I realise that by criticising an OS product, all the MS haters, the OS fans and uncle Tom Cobbly will regard me as the spawn of the devil,

Not quite. I noticed most of them revert to the "it's OS, you're free to fix it tactic" - which is of course just as stupid.

Scribbler
12-22-2004, 03:10 PM
Quibble all you wish about whether you find my findings different from yours. The point is, there is enough market share for other browsers to refute the "I'm not going to redesign my site for such a small demographic" argument.

You can find reports where IE still maintains 92% and higher, whereas some show it to be less than 80%. Arguments abound as to which reports are more reliable and why, however what can't be refuted is that in some cases IE usage dips much lower than what many claim (in many cases in the low 80s and lower).

Do you mean to point that because there are still regions with higher IE usage dictates the overall trend? That any studies which show IE usage lower are merely Anti IE studies? We're talking about a situation where 1-2% can represent over 20-30 million users. That's a lot of users to blithely discount because of complacency.

You want some links? I didn't just pull numbers out of my pants. Here's some, a mixture supporting each range of the spectrum. Which are accurate and which are not? And how will you determine which are "Unbiased."

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3409691
http://www.internetnews.com/xSP/article.php/3442841
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4037833.stm

B0bDole
12-22-2004, 06:13 PM
>Bobdole, I tried to post a link from FF to the BBC which didn't work, it demostrates a fault I have already posted on the FF forums, it was showing a film of the David Blunkett saga, but before I could do so, I happened to try adjusting the sound level, which wiped out the picture and a few seconds later froze completely...


Thats not a bug in FF that's a bug in WMP Plugin... talk to MS

adrianxw
12-23-2004, 03:31 AM
You see what I mean?

>>> Thats not a bug in FF that's a bug in WMP Plugin... talk to MS

Is Joe going to?

Perspective
12-23-2004, 12:42 PM
>>Is Joe going to?

lets hope Joe does. If we just bend over everytime something breaks the standard but "works" for MS, the situation isnt going to get any better.