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Lurker
12-06-2004, 09:50 PM
This is like some philosophical ****, or something.

Some people have found that in the Torah, you can make a matrix of phrases and search within them to make codes (The Bible Code on the history channel or discovery, I forgot). Anyway it had stuff from ancient to very recent times. Anyway what the bible said is that earth will be annihilated in 2012 by the comet. Just think about this - if this is true (bible predicting future, not just comet), how much knowledge would have to be put into this? Not only is it a story of people in the past, but an encrypted book of the future? Holy sh!t, it makes you dizzy. Anyway, what do you think?

sean
12-06-2004, 09:58 PM
First of all, it's really annoying when people add punctuation into cuss words to get by the filter, so please stop that.

Second, I was interested by the date: 2012. That's the same year the Mayan religious calendar predicts as well. December 13th IIRC.

Third, while I do believe the Bible to be true, and that some of this Bible Code stuff is probably legitimate, in a text that big, you can always find patterns, so I wouldn't read much into it. For one, few of the "original language" manuscripts are reliable IMO because errors could have made even between those manuscripts and the true originals, not to mention intentional damage done during the crusades. Moreover, the Bible claims that no one knows that date but God (with one exception to be found in one interpretation of the book of Revelation).

Interesting, but I'm afraid I find myself suspicious of this particular one.

edit:

Also, you comment the possibilities that would exist if the Bible was a prediction of the future. What do you think Mark 13 is? And many other chapters - that's just one that came to mind. While I do believe that rarely are things as "coincidental" as we think, I will again state that it is easy to read too much into this, especially when many times the same book warns us of spending too much time in a discussion just like this.

quzah
12-06-2004, 10:00 PM
You can make matrix codes from virtually any book you feel like. Monkeys with typewriters.

Quzah.

-KEN-
12-06-2004, 10:03 PM
You can make matrix codes from virtually any book you feel like. Monkeys with typewriters.

Quzah.

Right. Didn't some people get bored once and get Moby Dick to 'predict' various things? Talk about your load of BS.

edit: Here you go. http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

axon
12-06-2004, 10:05 PM
.....this thread has major flame potential, I suggest everyone is careful (somewhat) with what they say.

Biblical codes, and general searching for something in scripture is not a new thing - not a new thing at all. Most of the things I've read about seem nothing but over hyped zelot conspiracy theories - many might seem as ridicilous as someone telling you that 2pac is alive (shut up cheez!:p ). Anyways, its a cool topic...and its even more fun if you, yourself start looking at this stuff. Even though what you might be looking for is probably not there, reading some of the most important texts ever written in our history is a good side effect :)

Lurker, don't be smitten with colorful words which say something that might be comlpetely out od this world. I can't call scripture "just another text", but it is a text, and therefore could be interpreted in a platora of different ways - and some of these interpretations might be very far fetched. :)

Hey, you should watch the movie, "PI"

quzah
12-06-2004, 10:08 PM
Right. Didn't some people get bored once and get Moby Dick to 'predict' various things? Talk about your load of BS.

edit: Here you go. http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.htmlYou beat me to it with your edit. :D I was going to post the link. Had to have my fiancée look it up, because she had mentioned it the other day.

Quzah.

anonytmouse
12-06-2004, 10:09 PM
The assassinations of no less than ten world leaders is foretold in Moby Dick (http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html) (edit: same link as above). Be skeptical.

The Straight Dope: What's up with the "Bible Code"? (http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbiblecode.html)

How about getting these people who predict the end of the world to sign away all their assets on the day after? That would sort out those who believe their prediction from those who are just out to make a buck. How many times was the world supposed to end in the last decade anyway?

axon
12-06-2004, 10:10 PM
weird stuff...I wanted to mention Moby Dick in my post as well - that proves it, Melville must be in heaven and he is hooked on cboard like the rest of us.

-KEN-
12-06-2004, 10:14 PM
You beat me to it with your edit. :D I was going to post the link. Had to have my fiancée look it up, because she had mentioned it the other day.

Quzah.

Hooray, I beat Quzah! Do I gain super-coding abilities as a result?:p (ps: congrats on the fiancee)


Anyhow, on a lighter note, the possibility of getting struck by an Earth-crossing comet or asteroid isn't too far-fetched. The Earth (and moon, and just about every other solar body) has been struck by them tons of times before, and we obviously can't watch the whole sky at any given time, so it's not too far out. Interesting to entertain the thought that the whole of human existence could be wiped out in a matter of hours.

Shoemaker-Levey (http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/sl9/), anyone? Wowweee.

anonytmouse
12-06-2004, 10:33 PM
Meteorites that could cause major damage if they hit a city are relatively common on a geological time frame. Fortunately a large meteorite has a good chance of hitting somewhere on the 95% of the earth's surface that isn't covered by a city. Meteorites that could wipe out human life on earth are much much rarer.

>> Interesting to entertain the thought that the whole of human existence could be wiped out in a matter of hours. <<

Unfortunately, this is many times more likely to be caused by a full scale nuclear conflict than a mega-meteorite.

-KEN-
12-06-2004, 10:41 PM
Meteorites that could cause major damage if they hit a city are relatively common on a geological time frame. Fortunately a large meteorite has a good chance of hitting somewhere on the 95% of the earth's surface that isn't covered by a city. Meteorites that could wipe out human life on earth are much much rarer.

>> Interesting to entertain the thought that the whole of human existence could be wiped out in a matter of hours. <<

Unfortunately, this is many times more likely to be caused by a full scale nuclear conflict than a mega-meteorite.

Well that's comforting; at least it's something that could be avoided! Even though my Astronomy teacher insists that we could "probably" deflecting an Earth-crossing object if we maybe almost sort of kinda hit it when it was way the hell out there.

edit: Also, wouldn't striking the oceans cause significant environmental impacts as well? Maybe not as cataclysmic as hitting land, but certainly there would be massive tidal waves at the least.

PS: Shoemaker-Levy striking Jupiter. I think these images are awesome.

Draco
12-06-2004, 10:50 PM
I have done some internet reading through mostly scientific resources on the topic and a meteor crashing would destroy the ability to inhabit somewhere between 25% and 50%(it was a long time ago) of the world's currently populated land through mainly tidal waves and rise of the ocean through various possible causes.

neandrake
12-06-2004, 10:55 PM
In my opinion, I think that most biblical texts are written in a generic way, like US constitution, such that it can keep being interpreted differently through time, and adjusting to new times.

quzah
12-06-2004, 10:55 PM
I donno. Look at the size of these craters (http://exobio.ucsd.edu/Space_Sciences/earth_impact_craters.htm). I suspect that were we to get hit with something that can leave a crater 26km in diameter, it would cause just a few problems. And that's the smallest one listed there. Now try something that leaves a crater 300km in diameter.

Quzah.

anonytmouse
12-06-2004, 10:58 PM
>> Also, wouldn't striking the oceans cause significant environmental impacts as well? Maybe not as cataclysmic as hitting land, but certainly there would be massive tidal waves at the least. <<

Yep, good point. You also have to consider collapsing islands (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/956280.stm) (or not (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3963563.stm)) and volcanos (http://www.google.com/search?q=volcanic+winter). This is a fun thread.

Philandrew
12-06-2004, 11:15 PM
edit: Also, wouldn't striking the oceans cause significant environmental impacts as well? Maybe not as cataclysmic as hitting land, but certainly there would be massive tidal waves at the least.
Many major cities are built on the coast, so yes. Pull out a map of the US or Canada. There are many many many cities built on/near the coast. Take a peak at a map of Europe, same thing. Historically, access to the sea has always had advantages (read: military), so therefore...many major cities... :)
In addition, thats why some people are worried about polar ice caps melting. Because if the sea level keeps rising then many coastal cities will be flooded.

exluddite
12-06-2004, 11:33 PM
So should I start buying land in the Poconos now in hopes that it will be ocean front real estate after the meteor?

axon
12-07-2004, 12:00 AM
wow...this thread went off topic :) :p

novacain
12-07-2004, 02:37 AM
If I was a god,
and was going to hide the secrets of the universe in mans' sight, I would pick a place he could not loose the code,
nor find it until he was ready....

DNA, the fundamental binary code.......

-KEN-
12-07-2004, 06:56 AM
Well, all discussion is really moot, since, IIRC:

Alpha Centauri will crash into the Milky Way
The Moon will crash into the Earth
and, of course
the Sun will go Red Giant and probably either swallow us whole or fry us.


Cheery :) As my English teacher always says, all stories eventually end with "John and Mary die"

Govtcheez
12-07-2004, 07:07 AM
I prefer to believe John Titor will prove to be correct.

Driver
12-07-2004, 07:24 AM
Biblical prophecy is often fulfilled at multiple levels - you see a small fulfillment followed by a much bigger one later in history.

When you read Matthew 24 and 25, you see that Jesus does not give a date and time of His Second Coming; however he clearly states that nobody knows the day or hour.

However, He does give some very clear signs, many of which are being fulfilled right here and now in our lifetimes. For example:

"Nations will rise against nations" - sure, there have always been wars, but the wars of the 20th Century have been more bloody than ever before, thanks to the advances of technology. Just look at both worlsd wars, including the Holocaust and what went on at such places as Auschwitz.

"Many will come in My Name" - again, there have always been false prophets and the like, but over the last century of so we've really seen an explosion in cults and Jesuses that beg to differ from the one in the Bible.

I don't think we'll ever fully understand Biblical prophecy as it pertains to events yet to come, and this is probably one reason why there are so many different eschatological viewpoints.

It was only 20 years ago that Reactor 4 at Chernobyl in the then USSR melted down, releasing radioactivity for thousands of miles. It has also been pointed out to me that the name "Chernobyl" means "bitter" in Ukrainian. If this is true, then what about the star in Revelation (8:13?) called called "wormwood" which fell to earth and turned 1/3 of the waters to wormwood (bitterness)?

As for the Bible code book referenced near the top of this thread, well, I read it some time ago and I do remain sceptical on that score for the same reason given up there.

VirtualAce
12-07-2004, 07:28 AM
The Bible code is a farse. There is no hidden meaning in the texts. It does not predict any future events save for Armageddon which again it does not give a date. Jesus also never gives a date for anything. I dunno how these morons come up with dates for stuff and say its in the Bible. Your taught not to do that like on the first day you go to college as a freshman or even the first day in Sunday School..........just morons. That be like trying to teach a science class out of the book of Genesis. It just can't be done....although some have tried....and failed miserably. The Bible code as its called is an incorrect interpretation because what it claims to come up with, it violates the long standing rule of hermenuetics:

A text can never mean to us what it could have never meant to its original audience..

I attempted to write a paper about the Bible code in one of my classes at college and the professor would not let me do it. It simply is not scholarly material and is not widely accepted as orthodox Christian theology...or any theology for that matter. It is hype that is cooked up and being broadcast by the Oral Roberts camp - but it is a farse much like half of what they attempt to 'sell' on their networks for the sake of getting people to watch and fund their mumbo jumbo. Just like God was gonna kill him if he didn't get a million. Thanks for playing.......

Prophecy is also not for predicting the future - but a lot of people have made a lot of money off of an abuse and misinterpretation of prophecy. It really all boils down to money and lots of it - read Jim Baker's book about how the people he got involved with knew what they were 'selling' in their messages and TV programs knew it was all a farse. TV usually only shows the most 'exciting' stuff and frankly not every sermon that every preacher ever preaches is exciting. So to sell the audience they only air stuff that grabs their attention. Unfortunately these things are rarely founded in good theology and it is a horrible trend because it all the more shows how money has twisted the message and the church as well.

The professor that rejected my paper was Dr. Oss from then CBC. He helped write and translate for the NLT or New Living Translation version of the Bible and AFAIK he also helped with 'The Message' which is a modern day translation of the King James Version.

Good books to pick up about good theology are Erickson Christian Theology, now in like it's 6th edition or something. and books by Bruce.

If you want to study about this stuff make sure you don't just go with what's cool right now or what the TV churches are 'into.' I stay away from all that garbage because it comes and goes and really just hurts the church as a whole. It's hideous.

You will probably find more biblically-based preaching and ethics at your local church there in your home town than you will ever find on TV. It's sad because most people judge by what they see on TV. But just as Hollywood rarely represents to the world what America really is.....TV rarely represents what really happens or what is taught inside of a local church on any given day. I, for one, never saw the stupid Bible code movie and frankly most religous based movies that attempt to make it big come up with a stupid story wrapped in a good message - but the movie normally sucks. The only exception to the rule is The Passion which actually from a techy movie standpoint was a pretty good flic - but I won't watch it again because it's ....well graphic and makes me cringe when they rip flesh off. Yuk.


Heck I could post my code here and some C wacko with too much time on their hands could probably come up with some hidden bit patterns that predicted how I'm going to take over the world in 2020.

;) Same thing. Exactly.

ober
12-07-2004, 07:46 AM
Go Bubba, it's yer birthday, Go bubba... ;)

VirtualAce
12-07-2004, 07:53 AM
LOL. :D

I rarely talk about anything on this GD board....but that stuff really agitates me.

It's probably akin to Quzah, Prelude, or Salem seeing someone abuse and misuse C/C++. After studying something in depth and then seeing someone just violate every kind of rule and misuse and abuse it when they themselves know better....its just awful.

I bet I could make up some cool Bible code garbage and make lots of money on it as well. In fact I bet most people wouldn't even test it against what is really in the Bible. And anyways those who did go against me I would disprove them by saying they are being anti-spiritual or not open-minded enough. And if that didn't work then I'd probably resort to name bashing and making fun of them. Of course then I'd go right for their reputation or their past if they didn't stop going against me then. I'd be rich beyond my dreams. ;)

:)

novacain
12-07-2004, 07:58 AM
I thought the 'Da Vinci Code' was a novel?

>>I prefer to believe John Titor will prove to be correct.

Did he find his PC and go 'home'?

Govtcheez
12-07-2004, 08:15 AM
> Did he find his PC and go 'home'?

He came back to warn us of impending disaster. Do not mock him.

VirtualAce
12-07-2004, 09:16 AM
It was only 20 years ago that Reactor 4 at Chernobyl in the then USSR melted down, releasing radioactivity for thousands of miles. It has also been pointed out to me that the name "Chernobyl" means "bitter" in Ukrainian. If this is true, then what about the star in Revelation (8:13?) called called "wormwood" which fell to earth and turned 1/3 of the waters to wormwood (bitterness)?


Yes it does mean bitter. However I don't think the two are events can be compared because wormwood is supposed to make 1/3 of the water's bitter. To say that Chernobyl even made .013 % of the waters bittter or unusable would be an overestimation. There is a lot of water on the earth.

But you could say that Chernobyl might be a foreshadowing of a much grander event which is probably what John is talking about. Is the event Chernobyl...no....is it like Chernobyl - probably in some form.

BTW Angoid have you taken theology courses as well? Your statements sound more 'academic' than most I've read. Very good response.

Zach L.
12-07-2004, 10:34 AM
I wonder if the Bible predicts what I'll have for breakfast tomorrow. I must look into this... I'm quite curious (my stock of poppy seed muffins has run out, so I'll have to get creative).

axon
12-07-2004, 12:39 PM
>>I prefer to believe John Titor will prove to be correct.

hey 2004 is almost up, and still no civil war :D

-KEN-
12-07-2004, 01:46 PM
>>I prefer to believe John Titor will prove to be correct.

hey 2004 is almost up, and still no civil war :D

How bout I fire a rocket up your ass? :mad:

-KEN-
12-07-2004, 01:51 PM
Biblical prophecy is often fulfilled at multiple levels - you see a small fulfillment followed by a much bigger one later in history.

When you read Matthew 24 and 25, you see that Jesus does not give a date and time of His Second Coming; however he clearly states that nobody knows the day or hour.

However, He does give some very clear signs, many of which are being fulfilled right here and now in our lifetimes. For example:

"Nations will rise against nations" - sure, there have always been wars, but the wars of the 20th Century have been more bloody than ever before, thanks to the advances of technology. Just look at both worlsd wars, including the Holocaust and what went on at such places as Auschwitz.

"Many will come in My Name" - again, there have always been false prophets and the like, but over the last century of so we've really seen an explosion in cults and Jesuses that beg to differ from the one in the Bible.

I don't think we'll ever fully understand Biblical prophecy as it pertains to events yet to come, and this is probably one reason why there are so many different eschatological viewpoints.

It was only 20 years ago that Reactor 4 at Chernobyl in the then USSR melted down, releasing radioactivity for thousands of miles. It has also been pointed out to me that the name "Chernobyl" means "bitter" in Ukrainian. If this is true, then what about the star in Revelation (8:13?) called called "wormwood" which fell to earth and turned 1/3 of the waters to wormwood (bitterness)?

As for the Bible code book referenced near the top of this thread, well, I read it some time ago and I do remain sceptical on that score for the same reason given up there.


Oooh! Oooh! I know how to play this game!

Now, "wormwood" and "bitter" are two interesting words. You see, if you take the first two letters of each, what do you get? That's right, The WB! Therefore, I conclude that The WB is, in fact, the antichrist. That beast is destroying people! I mean, come on: Everwood?

THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING, PEOPLE! (Now all you have to do is make up some junk to have it "make sense")


Who else wants to play the "make crazy stuff up" game?

Thantos
12-07-2004, 01:58 PM
Hmm after watching some of the WB's shows it wouldn't surprise me -KEN-

Lurker
12-07-2004, 07:08 PM
If the bible truly did have the encrypted future, then it COULD predict the future besides armageddon (and 2012 isn't a date? I don't see too many other predictions that give actual years...). We just don't know what to search for - if we did, we could search for a specific event and find what happens, like the case of annihilation - we "know" what we think might happen. I don't necessarily believe all the things they say about it, the bigger matrices are less believable. But when you can search for a name or event and have a 4x4 matrix come up with info about it, that seems like more than just a coincidence.

Zach L.
12-07-2004, 07:11 PM
Hmm... Anyone have a digitized copy of the Bible (any language will do). I'm still wondering about my breakfast tomorrow.

-KEN-
12-07-2004, 07:17 PM
If the bible truly did have the encrypted future, then it COULD predict the future besides armageddon (and 2012 isn't a date? I don't see too many other predictions that give actual years...). We just don't know what to search for - if we did, we could search for a specific event and find what happens, like the case of annihilation - we "know" what we think might happen. I don't necessarily believe all the things they say about it, the bigger matrices are less believable. But when you can search for a name or event and have a 4x4 matrix come up with info about it, that seems like more than just a coincidence.

Obviously. You know those crossword puzzles they give in schools sometimes? My friends and I used to delight in finding silly and perverse words in them. It's quite obvious to me now that really these were planted there by Jesus. You see, they're a test! If you see the dirty words, your mind is full of filth and trash and dirty sinful thoughts and high-calorie fattening foods.

Either that or they contain some pretty racy predictions about what Argentina and Chile are up to :eek:

Zach L.
12-07-2004, 07:21 PM
Bah! It obviously wasn't Jesus who planted them... It was Brian.
"Always look on the bright side of life!!" :D

(For those of you who think I have lost it, I'm refering to Monty Python's Life of Brian.)

EvBladeRunnervE
12-07-2004, 07:50 PM
for a more indepth article on what quzah,bubba,etc. are talking about, Lurker, check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code

What I find indicative of the wrongness of the bible code is no one has used this code to predict events that happen in the future instead of the past, 20/20 hindsight is pretty great.

exluddite
12-07-2004, 08:21 PM
John Titor. What a crock! Not one person that I talked to at Ong's Hat ever even heard of the guy.

sean
12-07-2004, 09:56 PM
Angoid - it seems impossible to conatct you. I've bought several books on the Revalation of John and have seen some interesting interpretations of "Wormwood". Send me and email and I'll send you some of them - interesting stuff.

Driver
12-08-2004, 02:46 AM
I was going to reply again last night but got bogged down in a program I'm writing ....

Bubba, I did a one-year course some time ago that was one weekend a month each month for a year, and it covered some of this stuff. In addition, I've attended the odd occasional meeting or two, and it's very interesting. As you correctly point out though, one always has to be careful as there is always some "escahatological fad" doing the rounds that catch people out and they buy into it.

Ken, I've got .no idea. what you're talking about with respect to WB. Not even asking for enlightenment there either. The point you raise is valid, namely that one can make any text say whatever you want it to say if you try hard and long enough, and we must all be careful not to do this.

As for the Chernobyl / Wormwood scenario, I wasn't suggesting that this is the fulfillment of that verse in Revelation, but possibly a foreshadowing of it. As bad as that disaster was, and as much damage as it did, it didn't destroy nearly as much as 1/3 of the earth's waters as Revelation says it will.

The exact details escape me right now, but there was one ancient Roman Emperor who was commonly regarded as the Antichrist for the atrocities he committed at the time, and there is a school of prophetic thought that suggests that this was a foreshadowing of the real Antichrist.

Another thing that I've caught wind of really more than studying in-depth is the fact that modern-day Baghdad is supposedly built on the site of Babylon in the Bible, and wasn't Saddam Hussein trying to rebuild the ancient city?! But more reading / research is needed there - not going to throw out remarks I can't substantiate, even to myself!

The Message, which has been referenced, is a modern paraphrase-translation of the New Testament, although an Old Testament book is also available now (Psalms?). It was written by Eugene H. Petersen and has a readability to it that makes it more approachable than many other translations, although I'd always use it in conjunction with another translation.

A 'prophet' is one who forthtells the word of God. Not necessarily 'foretells', as prophecy does not have to be predictive. An old-fashioned use of the word simply meant to teach, or expound, the word of God. The Hebrew word (I haven't studied Hebrew!) is Narve, pronounced "nar-vay", I think, and meant 'a gusher' - one who 'gushes forth the word of God'.

Wow, that became a mini-sermon, didn't it?

anonytmouse
12-08-2004, 11:14 AM
Museum Of Hoaxes: End of World Causes Bank Failure (http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/end_of_world_bank/)

Numerous bad loans to a polygamist sect that believes the end of the world is nigh has caused the 99-year-old Bank of Ephraim in Utah to go under. The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (a small Mormon sect) was spending money like the end of the world was around the corner... because they thought the end of the world actually was around the corner. And happily funding this spending spree was the Bank of Ephraim. They approved loans for one bizarre project after another: a watermelon farm that didn't grow watermelons, a construction company that made a loss on everything it sold (materials, labor).

.END.