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Driver
09-10-2004, 10:54 AM
:(

I'll be frank here. I'm very disappointed with these forums.

I discovered them from a link on another site as a result of wanting to know the answer to some Win API questions, and have also discovered myself helping with a few other posts as well, questions that others have made.

This, to me, is what forum activity is all about. Mutual helping of each others technical problems.

It would seem that the knowledge and expertise here is excellent. That's not the problem.

The problem is with certain members attitudes. What's with these people? Why is it that when browsing threads, either looking for answers or for interest, you get a lot of people posting along the lines of, "I haven't got a clue but why don't you try reading the documentation?"?

That to me seems a pretty pointless, useless, and wasteful exercise. Anyone who indulges in that sort of stuff needs to get a life. If you don't know the answer to a question, don't bother bumping your posts count with worthless remarks - they're not wanted. Not by me anyway.

If a newbie asks a question that's pretty basic to you, answer it, pointing to documentation if necessary. Remember: you were once a newbie yourself, and how would you like to receive flames as the answer to a question you have asked? Probably not a lot is my guess, unless you go fishing for that sort of treatment.

If you don't know the answer to someone's question, don't bother pointing it out. Not worth it. You're wasting your time and the questioner's time.

If someone asks a question that's unclear, ask for further clarification rather than shooting the person down for not being able to express themselves clearly. English might not be their first language, after all.

I'm very surprised the moderators don't jump on this behaviour, or is it encouraged here? I post on other boards where the attitude, "The only silly question is an unasked one" is adopted, and it works well. Anybody asking basic questions get treated with the same respect as those asking trickier ones. Newbies are treated with the same respect as longer-standing ones. It creates a friendlier "atmosphere" where people come back time and again, both for help and to contribute.

Reading some of the remarks made after posts where I've tried to help indicates that any help I've offered - sacrificed time to do so - has not been wanted or appreciated. I'm too busy to waste time under those circumstances.

OK, I'm new here ... not a mod, don't know anyone here, but if the first impression to new people is, "This board sucks" then I'm afraid that reputation is going to precede this board, unfortunately. People won't come here ... they'll say, "Don't post there - the people are rude".

Is this what you want? Is the desired effect to create a closed community, closed to fresh blood? If not, then I'd suggest putting a few rules in place to help root out worthless posts, and enforce them!!

My twopence anyway - I guess I expect to get either flamed or ignored. We shall see.

Vicious
09-10-2004, 11:03 AM
First off, show me a board without these kinds of people and I'll give you a dollar.

:)

Second, actually, it is alot of time mods themselves that point to documentation. I guess they just get tired of answering the same question over and over when its right in front of the posters nose.

I tend to answer a noobie question in a way that they are looking for, because I am a recent noob myself

Also, as far as programming boards go, this is the friendlyest one ive found... (except quzah... :p j/k bro)

If people come on here, see a few rude (to the point) members and leave, thats their loss. You cant get a little dirt on your pants and go home.. you have to take it and move on with life. ;)

prog-bman
09-10-2004, 11:09 AM
Well I understand what you are trying to say. I also remeber being new. But when you hear the same freaking question all the time it just gets annoying. I am in no way discouraging new people to come to these boards I think it is awesome. I love helping new people out seeing problems that i havn't encountered yet and seeing the solutions to them. But when you have in place a FAQ that no one reads and people get upset when you ask a question in the FAQ well im sorry you deserved the yelling. I would be sad if this place became a closed community. Anyways Im sorry you feel we are mean to new people but when I was new here no one was mean to me.
On a side note wouldn't double spacing be nicer to read?

Govtcheez
09-10-2004, 11:15 AM
:(

I'll be frank here. I'm very disappointed with these forums.You could always, y'know, leave.

RoD
09-10-2004, 11:17 AM
I choose to quote you.


You're wasting your time

prog-bman
09-10-2004, 11:17 AM
Dude govt i knew as soon as i saw you online. I knew you were going to post that :)

Vicious
09-10-2004, 11:19 AM
Im sure your know saying, "yep, they are rude" but really, if you come on to this board being a relatively new person, being here no longer than a week or so, and make a post on how bad the board is, surely you knew you were asking to get flamed.

Prelude
09-10-2004, 11:26 AM
>I'll be frank here. I'm very disappointed with these forums.
I'll be equally frank. Cry us a river and see how much we care.

>The problem is with certain members attitudes.
In my experience on these boards (and I like to think that I do have a smidge), attitude is tolerated when deserved. If you ask a question that can be found with ease by searching the forums, the web, the documentation, etc., not only do we allow someone to forcefully show you the light, we encourage it.

>Mutual helping of each others technical problems.
Yes, but not mutual spoonfeeding. If it's obvious that you didn't put any time or effort into finding your answer, I'm not going to put any time or effort into giving it to you.

>and how would you like to receive flames as the answer to a question you have asked?
I would be hurt, but then grateful for the implicit help hidden in the flames. Gratuitous flaming is frowned upon and stopped immediately. If you take the time off from your pointless ranting and actually read the replies and try to understand the reasoning behind them, you'll find that the poster actually is helping. Just because you are too narrow-minded and quick to judge to see this doesn't mean this is a poor community.

>If someone asks a question that's unclear, ask for further clarification
We do when we're trying to help them.

>English might not be their first language, after all.
There are forums and newsgroups that use other languages. Here we use English. If you can't communicate well in English then go to one of the forums that uses a language you understand better.

>I'm very surprised the moderators don't jump on this behaviour, or is it encouraged here?
No, the moderators encourage helping people to help themselves. We won't always be here to give you the answer, so we teach you how to find your own answer.

>"The only silly question is an unasked one"
I go by the motto that there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

>indicates that any help I've offered - sacrificed time to do so - has not been wanted or appreciated.
I get that occasionally too. It feels bad, but at least you tried.

>then I'd suggest putting a few rules in place to help root out worthless posts, and enforce them!!
Ironically, our best weapons against these worthless posts are the members with attitudes. And extreme attitudes are tolerated because those members have been here for a long time and help far more people than they scare off.

GanglyLamb
09-10-2004, 11:55 AM
Actually what i feel is this:

Every board has different rules and regulations and even "unwritten rules"...
Me myself i knew that every board has something like that before i even joined this board...So at the time i joined i was already keeping an eye on this board for quite some time...
After some time i became member and because i had been watching the board and how ppl act, talk and walk on this board it was pretty easy for me to get "implemented" in the board...Never felt like somebody was rude ( or no i do once but that was my fault i was asking something really really dumb i guess, like usual ).

Anyway like vicious said you are new and you give us a thread like this...
IMHO this mens that you are just not supposed to "fly somwehere" on boards...

Itīs the same in every day life, when 2 cultures meet each other, discussions will exist but problems are here to be solved...In order to solve that kind of problem you dont need to do some difficult C,C++ or C# coding or whatsoever, no you need to "interprete" "process" and "act" on every situation that you encounter and at the same time stay humane that is be nice etc...
So what we are looking for is a point were all of us can connect to...

Hmm damn i lost my "wire" ( dont know the english expression ), anyways i hope you know what i mean.
For 2 people to co-operate it requires both people to sacrifice something because you know very well its almost impossible to find two persons that go hand in hand from the very first beginning...

Just my 99 cents (yes that is 1 cent of discount right now, if you purchase 3 ganglylambs you get a 4th one for free, just to make sure you can keep bugging that smelly stinky neighbour from upstairs...)

Greets,

Ganglylamb.

::edit::
for all the statistics freaks out there


Threads: 52,581, Posts: 375,898, Members: 12,018
Yes thats correct 12,018 Members and alot more threads, I have not done a search but the time that i have been here, which is already i think 1.5 year could be less could be more, Iīve never seen a complaint like this....
Make me wonder, what about you?
::edit2::
Yes yes yes its almost two years if my calculation is right...calculus was never one of my good subjects...

Brian
09-10-2004, 11:58 AM
i dont know i think these forums are quite good :confused:

GanglyLamb
09-10-2004, 12:03 PM
I'll be frank here.
Alright, then I will be Mark here.


---------
pretty original isnt it?:(

Vicious
09-10-2004, 12:07 PM
Cry us a river and see how much we care.


Ive always liked, Cry me a river, build a bridge and jump...



Alright, then I will be Mark here.


lol, that was funny.

Ken Fitlike
09-10-2004, 12:43 PM
Hiawatha visits cprog

So frankly frank is disappointed
Disappointed with these forums
Came to cprog wanting coding
All he found was messy foreplay
That didn't turn him on a little
That didn't turn him on a lot but
Made him feel all cold and surly
Truly not so big and burly but
Sort of like a little girly
With braided hair and spotty freckles.
Then came Cheez and on form Prelude,
Swiftly cogent in rebuttal,
Spoke of truth and how mechanics
Is more than oil and sweat and metal
Is more than toil and edge and power
But sort of like a squeaky cheez doll
That you only get with service
In the halls of cprogs boardlings
After posting after posting
Beyond all measure helping others
Calm and quiet but helping always.
Until one day a sad void mainer
Comes along and farts and squeaks much
Boasts of how he knows a great deal
How he built this huge computer
While servicing a thousand others
And hax0ring a couple of million
But he's come here seeking info
Info for to help his coding:
Honest, mum, it's not my homework.
And on and on and on you give him
On and on you seem to give in
Until that day you cry, "ENOUGH!"
"Search the web for easy stuff!"
And from that same day forward
You resolve to give help truly
Surely teach the lore of google (http://www.google.com/):
Mighty google (http://www.google.com/), searches for you
Finds the things you simply can find
Leaves you free to answer questions
On the stuff that's not so easy.
From that same day forward
You resolve to teach more surely
Show the faq (http://faq.cprogramming.com/cgi-bin/smartfaq.cgi) and all the others
In vain hope that some might read them
Read and learn a little wisdom
And in that learning gain some insight
That would help them learn some more than
They would know the month before when
You would always spoonfeed daily
Sometime twice or three times daily
But no more for they are now free
Free to learn and learn quite frankly. .... ;)

axon
09-10-2004, 01:14 PM
ROFLMAO @ Fitlike...haha. Fitlike, you crack me up old man - thanks. :)


::stabs Fitlike with Angoid::


Angoid,

stop whining; if you feel it is your duty to be a good civil servant - join the red cross or something.

Vicious
09-10-2004, 01:22 PM
Just the amount of time it took ken to type that... should say something to angoid..

That people arent "rude" just because they dont want to take the time to explain something.

You can have someone cut your wood for you, but cut it yourself and it warms you twice.

BMJ
09-10-2004, 01:24 PM
www.cprogramming.com - love it or leave it.

kermi3
09-10-2004, 01:25 PM
I think both sides have made their point clear. I'm closing this one to prevent flaming.

If you want to post more, PM me.

Kermi3