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Russell
05-23-2004, 10:18 AM
There are numerous compilers available for C++ programming. One of the easiest compilers to use is the Bloodshed Dev compiler.
I am under the impression Bloodshed Dev-C++ is an IDE that implements external GCC-based compilers.

Thantos
05-23-2004, 10:35 AM
Dev-C++ uses the MingW ports of GCC and G++ by default but that you could change it if you so wished.

However what was said is not incorrect because most feel that the IDE is apart of the compiler when packaged as such.

Russell
05-23-2004, 10:55 AM
I feel it's a misleading statement since, as the name suggests, an IDE is much, much more than a `compiler' and for a new programmer who knows no better, it may give them a false representation regarding the necessary tools for programming.

Lurker
05-23-2004, 11:08 AM
an IDE is much, much more than a `compiler'

In my opinion, a compiler is a lot more impressive than an IDE, but that's just an opinion :) .

Russell
05-23-2004, 11:10 AM
My point is: an IDE is, in addition to a compiler, an editor, project manager, debugger, etc., therefore calling an IDE a compiler is false.

Thantos
05-23-2004, 11:21 AM
A new programmer really doesn't need to know the difference between a compiler, and IDE, projects, debugger, etc. Trying to learn all that in the beginning is a bit of an overload. Most know they need a compiler, Dev has a compiler and all the tools they need. So they can start off learning the language and as the learn more they'll learn the differences between all the tools and how to use them. But that comes with time.

I can't think of a single program that is an IDE and compiler. Most are broken up into the IDE and the compiler (though ones like Borland and VS don't allow you to change the compiler they use) but do it in a seemless fashion so the user doesn't notice that there are infact multiple programs working in the background.

Russell
05-23-2004, 11:21 AM
http://www.cprogramming.com/other.html

Bloodshed Dev 4.0 Don't be fooled by the name, this is a wonderful compiler. It is easy to set up, and it runs in windows. It can still create DOS programs, however. At six megabytes, it is not an excessively long download. If you want an easy to use free compiler (unless you want to donate $20, which is not required), try this one. For information on using this compiler, go here.
Should read:

Bloodshed Dev 4.0 Don't be fooled by the name, this is a wonderful IDE (Integrated Development Environment). It is easy to set up, and it runs in windows. It can still create DOS programs, however. At six megabytes, it is not an excessively long download. If you want an easy to use free IDE (unless you want to donate $20, which is not required), try this one. For information on using this IDE, go here.

Thantos
05-23-2004, 11:24 AM
But it is MORE then a simple IDE, it is an IDE, compiler, debugger, project manager, and linker (you do know there is a difference between a compiler and a linker right? ) all rolled into one.

Russell
05-23-2004, 11:28 AM
A new programmer really doesn't need to know the difference between a compiler, and IDE, projects, debugger, etc. Trying to learn all that in the beginning is a bit of an overload.

Without learning the tools, how can one be expected to learn a trade that implements the tools?

Russell
05-23-2004, 11:30 AM
But it is MORE then a simple IDE, it is an IDE, compiler, debugger, project manager, and linker (you do know there is a difference between a compiler and a linker right? ) all rolled into one.
My point entirely. Thank you. =)

Ken Fitlike
05-23-2004, 11:46 AM
http://www.cprogramming.com/other.html

Should read:

Bloodshed Dev 4.0 Don't be fooled by the name, this is a wonderful IDE (Integrated Development Environment). It is easy to set up, and it runs in windows. It can still create DOS programs, however. At six megabytes, it is not an excessively long download. If you want an easy to use free IDE (unless you want to donate $20, which is not required), try this one. For information on using this IDE, go here.

Check out the faq (http://faq.cprogramming.com/cgi-bin/smartfaq.cgi?answer=1043633846&id=1031248558). For Dev-Cpp (listed in "Editors & IDE's") it reads:
This is a very popular, open source (delphi) IDE for MinGW....
I'm inclined to agree with Thantos, however: for those starting out minimizing confusion between what different toolset are is arguably simpler. There are also precedents for such inaccuracies carrying forward in other disciplines for similarly utilitarian purposes. However, I think that documentation, such as that on cprog, should, where possible, resolve any such ambiguities in the interests of accuracy.

Personally, I used to get unconscionably irritated when I read someone refer to an 'ide' as a 'compiler' but i've since learned that pedantically correcting them is a wasted effort - they come to learn the difference in their own way and in their own time.

Thantos
05-23-2004, 12:01 PM
Without learning the tools, how can one be expected to learn a trade that implements the tools? They will learn them in time. You don't start teaching algebra to first graders, you teach them how to count and simple math, and from there you build on to it until they eventually learn calculas. Its the same process with programming and it's tools. You go "this is a compiler where you write your code and hit the button", and eventually they will learn the differences between the IDE, the preprocessor, the compiler, and the linker. But in the beginning they do not need to know those parts.


My point entirely. Thank you. =) I don't think you understand my point. The point is that the page was directed to new programers that do not know the differences between each of the tools. As such the term compiler was the most appropriate term to describe what Dev-C++ is. It is called writing for your audience.

Russell
05-23-2004, 12:35 PM
How can you call something, something it's not? But then again, you probably call youself a programmer. ;)

Thantos
05-23-2004, 12:38 PM
Ah I love it when people resort to personal attacks when they can't think of a rational rebuttal.

golfinguy4
05-23-2004, 01:31 PM
Russell, find something worthwhile to argue about. Else, STFU.

whackaxe
05-23-2004, 02:17 PM
In my opinion, a compiler is a lot more impressive than an IDE, but that's just an opinion :) .

course it is, DEV c++ (V4 at least) is written in delphi :D

gcn_zelda
05-23-2004, 03:01 PM
When I was newer, I was confused on whether Dev-C++ was an actual compiler or just a code editor.

I think that the webmaster should tell them exactly what Dev-C++ is.

jverkoey
05-23-2004, 08:59 PM
Having written my own language/compiler/interface, I have to say that it really does not matter what you call the thing. Eventually people will figure it out and call it what they choose, but that doesn't mean we should have a huge debate over the simple fact that bloodshed was called a compiler. I call my OpenScript compiler a compiler, just because I do, even though it is an IDE, it still compiles OpenScript code! People don't/shouldn't really care whether you call visual C++ a compiler or an IDE, because visual C++ is both.

I think this whole debate is kind of stupid/pointless honestly. Bloodshed compiles stuff, people call it a compiler, live with it.

Prelude
05-24-2004, 08:57 AM
>How can you call something, something it's not?
Because it helps newcomers to focus on more important things and experienced programmers to use simpler terminology to ease communication. For example:


Okay, I have an array of malloc'd strings but I don't know how to free them, can you help?

This question relies on a lot of inside knowledge based on calling things something that they aren't. If you want to be more accurate then it would be more like this:


Okay, I have a sequence of contiguous blocks of memory that represent addresses in C. Each of those blocks contains the address of unique chunks of contiguous memory returned by malloc that I'm using to simulate a sequence of contiguous blocks of memory that represent characters terminated by a character with the value of zero, but I don't know how to release the memory back to the process' memory pool so that it can be reused later in the execution of my program. Can you help?

Even that can be made more precise, but it completely hides the question being asked. We have quite a few people here who know the answer to the former question, but would be completely lost when asked the latter. I think you're being overly pedantic. ;)

ober
05-24-2004, 10:03 AM
0\/\/n3d HAHA.

I think Prelude makes the point the best. Honestly, when I started out programming, I didn't care what tools I was using. I was more interested in learning the language. I just wanted something that would compile it.... and at that point, I didn't care what it was (IDE, compiler, etc).

Thantos
05-24-2004, 10:11 AM
Its a good think Prelude is already taken...


pedantic
ACK RUN AWAY!!!!

major_small
05-24-2004, 10:19 AM
When I was newer, I was confused on whether Dev-C++ was an actual compiler or just a code editor.

I think that the webmaster should tell them exactly what Dev-C++ is.
no offense or anything, but how did you not know that? if you can edit your code, you're using a code editor... if you can compile your code, you're using a compiler... if you can do both you have to be using both...

gcn_zelda
05-24-2004, 05:14 PM
no offense or anything, but how did you not know that? if you can edit your code, you're using a code editor... if you can compile your code, you're using a compiler... if you can do both you have to be using both...
I was stupid, naive, and a wannabe back then...

Not that much has changed :P