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no-one
04-19-2004, 01:36 PM
theres to little of it here... what do programmers need more than discussions of various topics by experts in the field... like do's dont's, whys and why nots, hows, etc... not tutorials not books... just discussions... reasoning... things of this nature... right now everythings just one big circle... big stagnant pool of the same questios we've answered a thousand times...

no more syntax... give them technique!!!! no more simple answers... give them ideas!!!no more tutorials... give them inspiration!!!! we must create a programmers republic!!!! a programmers utopia!!!! a board not for the newbies but for the programmers!!!!

JOIN ME COMRADES AND LET US BRING ABOUT OUR GOAL OF A PRORAMMERS UTOPIAN DREAM! i will end the tyranny of the modrators that quash anything not in accordance with their newbieist viewpoint! we must bring an end to newbies ruling what was once ours and bringing all discussion to a level of their minimal understanding!!! we must once again rule the inernet as our fathers once did!!!

ok, seriously though...

Glirk Dient
04-19-2004, 01:57 PM
RAWR!!! Fire the moderators and elect 1 person to watch over us! Of course, history has proven this method to be best of all!

Prelude
04-19-2004, 01:59 PM
As much as I would love a forum for programmer's mind melding, I honestly don't think it would be very active. Most of our members are either not capable of handling discussions at that level or are unwilling to look at the art of programming past their current syntax issues. Those that are both capable and willing are in the minority, so such discussions would be slow and infrequent I imagine.

gcn_zelda
04-19-2004, 02:10 PM
But you have to know not to do something before you can know why.

Before you have a discussion on why or why not to use void main(), you have to know what it does and that you shouldn't use it.

Give the newbies why's/why nots, and they will eventually become programmers.

Set the rules before you explain and debate them.

Glirk Dient
04-19-2004, 02:15 PM
I think the discussions of why and why not help the programming community. First off new members will learn what to do and what not to do so we dont have to answer it many times a day. Second it serves as a reference incase we need to polish after not programming for a year. We dont need another forum for high level discussions...all forums contain higher end members and n00bs that tell you void main() is what real programmers use. Anyways, you get the point...go start a topic yourself and see how it goes.

whackaxe
04-19-2004, 02:18 PM
you can't do that for two reasons
1) that would mean kicking me out, and that isn't happening :D
2) what would you have done if you when you were a newbie and had joined this board? given up and gone to learn java (see other thread).

on www.sitepoint.com they have a sub forum, in some forums, for advanced techniques. maybe c board needs that?

Govtcheez
04-19-2004, 02:33 PM
What the hell? I thought you were dead?

-KEN-
04-19-2004, 04:25 PM
I was hoping.

Lurker
04-19-2004, 04:30 PM
Heh. Heh heh.

DavidP
04-19-2004, 05:16 PM
JOIN ME COMRADES AND LET US BRING ABOUT OUR GOAL OF A PRORAMMERS UTOPIAN DREAM! i will end the tyranny of the modrators that quash anything not in accordance with their newbieist viewpoint! we must bring an end to newbies ruling what was once ours and bringing all discussion to a level of their minimal understanding!!! we must once again rule the inernet as our fathers once did!!!


Woohoo! Rebellion!!! Let's all blindly join the ranks and fight for a cause that our generals tell us nothing about!!!

no-one
04-19-2004, 07:09 PM
prelude, i was starting to like you, dont go down with the old school... haha, ok, well still, there's like no place on the internet like that, well at least worth the time it takes to download the text... 99% of the programming internet is targeted toward the new programmers, the 1% is well hidden leaving intermediate and advanced, etc... with nothing... even if it is slow... its still worth it, it would at least be minimally productive, it actually would teach something beyond syntax, something with some substance or value...

>What the hell? I thought you were dead?

i get that a lot... wait no i was but i've risen to lead you all to a new era in... uh... programming boards for the programmers!!!

>I was hoping.

for me to return and once again return you to your I am sillyI am sillyI am sillyI am sillyI am sillydom, to govtcheez and ober.

lurker, govt. gets you too if he will become one of my lieutenants...

>Woohoo! Rebellion!!! Let's all blindly join the ranks and fight for a cause that our generals tell us nothing about!!!

Obviously a spy brainwashed by the moderators.

excellent idea Glirk you can be an honorary lieutenant untill i decide on a purge...

UnregdRegd
04-19-2004, 07:32 PM
This call to arms reminds me of the writings of a brash man named Karl Marx. We all know what happened because of his ideas.

I think it's better that we simply conserve the status quo because it works. Everything has its innate tendencies, and CProgramming.com's is to have similar questions asked often by the newbies. If we try to turn CProgramming.com into some sort of intellectual coders' paradise, we'll have ignored the essence of these boards. When you ignore the essence of something, you get an abomination (I won't cite specific examples here to avoid offending people).

no-one
04-19-2004, 08:18 PM
i hope your not serious... I SAID UTOPIA NOT PARADISE!!!!!

Today i announce my 5 day plan, to put cprogramming on the road to our utopia... much like Russia during the time of Marx we are backwards and weak compared to our western neighbors, to make us once again the greatest power in the world!!! this five day plan calls for the elimination of the supermoderators who withhold their knowledge and fail to meet the quotas set by our new totalitarian regime, and like the kulaks of Russia, they must be eliminated!!!!

MARX??!?! sure i guess but i was going more for Stalin... personally...

now enough silliness... i would love to see this, something worth reading, i mean no insult to the people who answer questions here, seriously some of the answers are quite enlightening, but its only so once... we need to concentrate it and put it in on place... have seriously informative discussion of topics relevant or whatever it doesnt matter, we need to learn how to program not how to spell or when to put semicolons...

i think Sayeh understood this read his posts... Sunlight got this... Salem... etc... even the webmaster at one point with the faq board tried something similar in some respect...
where these were insufficient or driven away by newbie insolence... we must succeed!!!

adrianxw
04-20-2004, 02:05 AM
The reason so much content is dedicated to newbies is because newbies usually do not know enough to be able to find their own answers.

They cease to become newbies when they suddenly realise that programming is about thinking out their own solutions and not just cutting and pasting what someone on a forum said to do.

At that point, most leave the forums, a few stick around and help the next crop of newbies do exactly the same. Always been like that, probably always will.

I could site a place such as the mod board where all are long serving/suffering members as a typical place for deep philosophical discussion, right kind of place, does it happen? No. Why? Because we have lives away from the board where we discuss, chat, argue and attempt to create a real utopia rather then an imaginary one in cyber space.

no-one
04-20-2004, 12:42 PM
you people take silliness way to seriously, and laugh at seriousness.

adrian your right, but programming is at a stagnant state, nothing is advancing or changing as fast as it should, theres a huge skill/knowledge deficit, all new programmers know is technical and syntactical bulI am sillyI am sillyI am sillyI am silly, they dont know how to program, learning anything worth a damn is hellish, even things that are simple and easy to teach... this may not be a solution to the problem but its a start! sure it may start slow, but once we have even as small base, the newbies will learn and grow, and once they have something to build on then maybe they will be capable of contributing rather than leaving or following our footsteps.

adrianxw
04-20-2004, 01:01 PM
>>> but programming is at a stagnant state

The global economy is in a stagnant state. When it is so, firms do not risk/invest in new systems, so software houses consolidate and cut back research.

>>> theres a huge skill/knowledge deficit,

There are a great many highly qualified, highly experienced IT professionals that are out of work at the moment because of the above.

no-one
04-20-2004, 01:14 PM
>The global economy is in a stagnant state. When it is so, firms do not risk/invest in new systems, so software houses consolidate and cut back research.

I realize that and that its part of the problem and nothing we can solve here...

>>> theres a huge skill/knowledge deficit,
>There are a great many highly qualified, highly experienced IT professionals that are out of work at the moment because of the above.

im not sure what you mean by this... it could be interpreted several ways, so i reserve response for further explaination.

adrianxw
04-20-2004, 01:26 PM
I see statements like...

>>> theres a huge skill/knowledge deficit,

... that very often. If this defecit is so great, why are there so many qualified and experienced software developers out of work?

no-one
04-20-2004, 02:10 PM
look, your missing the point entirely, i was refering to the raw knowledge defict between the old and new programmers, not how many proffesionals there are or arn't... but what they have to or do know as compared to 10 years ago, and what they can do with it... and not just professionals but bob the hobbiest programmer too...

but even thats really a side point to what im asking, we need progressive discussion of topics not just a glass of water and a pat on the head, whats needed is understanding not just do it this way or that its just dont like that... and of things most wont think to ask about or even realize that its important... the old school knows what the new school is no longer required to know or taught, but needs know anyway.

they need knowledge they can do something with not cool templess swaps... or crap like that.

UnregdRegd
04-20-2004, 06:50 PM
Honestly, the vulgar masses of programmers aren't ready for your utopia because they're not capable of such selfless sacrifice. The world is a dog-eat-dog world where you've got to look out for Number One. An idealistic, or delusional, few are all that are going to contribute to your socialist programmers' utopia. A lot of people like to talk about progress but progress towards what? I firmly believe that any "progress" is really just a step towards decadence.

lightatdawn
04-21-2004, 02:23 PM
Okay, I cant take it any more. Before we can continue with this proposed "enlightening discussion", I propose that we go over a few rules of the english language that a [number of] person(s) in this thread could seriously benefit from. Once these rules are followed in even a half-hearted manner, I'll hopefully be able to follow what in hell you're talking about. Thus I'll be able to enter into such a discussion without first having to mentally parse every paragraph.

com·ma n.

[Grammar] A punctuation mark ( , ) used to indicate a separation of ideas or of elements within the structure of a sentence.

pe·ri·od n.

[Grammar] A punctuation mark ( . ) indicating a full stop, placed at the end of declarative sentences and other statements thought to be complete, and after many abbreviations.

el·lip·sis n. pl. el·lip·ses (-sz)

[Grammar] A mark or series of marks (... or * * *, for example) used in writing or printing to indicate an omission, especially of letters or words.

cap·i·tal·i·za·tion n.

The use of capital letters in writing or printing.
[Added Note: Especially at the start of sentences. i.e. After a period.]


As an added bonus it would be nice to see only a single instance of punctuation per occurance. e.g. "Hello!" is preferred over "Hello!!!!!"

Steps:
1) Read
2) Practise
3) Repeat
4) Recieve my everlasting appreciation

Thanks! [ !!!!!!!!! ]

/* Edit */ Corrected: I should probably check for spelling, grammar, etc, in a post that is so blatantly derogatory towards those who don't, yes? ;)

UnregdRegd
04-21-2004, 04:51 PM
cap·i·tal·i·za·tion n.

The use of capital letters in writing or printing.
[Added Note: Especially at the start of sentances (emphasis added). i.e. After a period.]

Just between us pedants, remember that sentence is spelled s-e-n-t-e-n-c-e; that's with an e, not an a.

chrismiceli
04-21-2004, 04:58 PM
he also mispelled practice as practise.

Thantos
04-21-2004, 04:59 PM
Lightatdawn is Canadian so its ok :)

Govtcheez
04-21-2004, 05:02 PM
Being Canadian is not ok.

lightatdawn
04-21-2004, 05:12 PM
Just between us pedants, remember that sentence is spelled s-e-n-t-e-n-c-e; that's with an e, not an a.
Ooh! Shot down. :) I'm ashamed to say I do that on a fairly regular basis, actually. It's one of those words that comes out different on a keyboard when I'm typing madly away than if I think about it.


he also mispelled practice as practise.

As Thantos in all his oh-so-worldly-knowledge pointed out, thats how we spell it here in Canada, eh. ;)

>>Being Canadian is not ok.

LOL. We can always trust you for the quick wit govt. :p

Govtcheez
04-21-2004, 05:16 PM
Shut up, you dirty Canuckistani

Prelude
04-21-2004, 05:19 PM
>Shut up, you dirty Canuckistani
That fits so well with the thread title. :D

lightatdawn
04-21-2004, 06:29 PM
>>Shut up, you dirty Canuckistani

Thats it Govt, I'm reporting you to the mods for flaming. *click* ... *checks e-mail* ... Aw crap, now what?

Which brings me to an interesting notion; If I "report to mod" a thread, would I then legally be able to turn around and delete it claiming a request from a user? :D j/k

So, um, ya. About that enlightening discussion... ? :p

no-one
04-21-2004, 10:44 PM
socialist canuckistani... propaganda!!!!!!,...

us msnt folow ways f teh old wrld,..!? i and thus mus caster wayaay ther evile.!!....! pnktuatin tis evile... elisp and totl captisation si teh mnew futr, spealng si fer teh wek confirmist mind.

britemrn'n:
red teh thunkens, c frsht... prahgraf, n frsht psht.
OOPSH I FERGOTS... TE CASHPITALISE ENUF.

cng: meh lubs hvn lutinets...

adrianxw
04-22-2004, 12:59 AM
I dropped out of this thread when the posts became incoherent, I see it never got better.

no-one
04-22-2004, 11:08 AM
well, nobody seems to be taking it seriously at all... so what the hell difference does it make...

i wanted to at least attempt to do something progressive here... but it has not been well recieved so... life goes on, the circle continues. till someone more persuasive comes along.

by the way this doesnt mean i've given up... by any means.

adrianxw
04-22-2004, 12:28 PM
>>> nobody seems to be taking it seriously at all

People bothered to tell you why your reasoning was flawed. There is nothing wrong with having a utopian dream, but you cannot assume that just because you see a vision of it, others will.

If your posts had been easier to read - you may have acheived more.

no-one
04-22-2004, 12:31 PM
the whole stalinist utopia thing was a joke people!!! uh, just read the first paragraph of the first post... pretty good generalized explaination...

there's still opportunity to make an actual discussion of this, i guess...

>People bothered to tell you why your reasoning was flawed.

not flawed, just unrealistic... still i wish to try... but i realize motivation for such a thing is understandably lacking.

Govtcheez
04-22-2004, 12:32 PM
> If your posts had been easier to read - you may have acheived more.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

breath

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAH HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHA

whackaxe
04-22-2004, 12:40 PM
in conclusion. i suggest you visit these sites (in that order preferably)

http://www.hostrocket.com/
https://registrar.godaddy.com/
http://www.invisionboard.com/

and coem back and note us when your utopia is online ;)

no-one
04-22-2004, 12:44 PM
uh... thanks...?...

major_small
04-23-2004, 10:30 AM
Today i announce my 5 day plan, to put cprogramming on the road to our utopia... now that we're in day 4...

much like Russia during the time of Marx we are backwards and weak compared to our western neighborswhich exit goes west on teh interweb?

no-one
04-23-2004, 12:28 PM
> now that we're in day 4...

jokes dead...

>which exit goes west on teh interweb?

the back button... foward would be east.

XSquared
04-23-2004, 12:36 PM
>the back button... foward would be east.
That is where you are wrong. I am facing south (PC facing north), so therefore the back button takes me to the east and the forward button takes me west.

Thantos
04-23-2004, 12:40 PM
But you are a hockey loving, beer guzzling, Canadian so your opinion doesn't count. I'm not sure why it just doesn't.

no-one
04-23-2004, 12:45 PM
left is always east when your reading a map! so it is with the screen... the top of the screen is north... etc... we're working in local coords... not world coords.... duh!

major_small
04-23-2004, 02:14 PM
left is always east when your reading a map! so it is with the screen... the top of the screen is north... etc... we're working in local coords... not world coords.... duh!last time I checked, right is east on a map...

Thantos
04-23-2004, 04:26 PM
Don't you remember: Never Eat Shredded Wheat

BTW anyone know where the hell that came from?

XSquared
04-23-2004, 04:29 PM
The coalition for the abolishment of breakfast cereals?

no-one
04-23-2004, 08:33 PM
>last time I checked, right is east on a map...

who asked you? your map is facing you, reverse it and you'll see that im right... jeez... hes like a small child, always looking for whats wrong so much he misses all of the right...

>Don't you remember: Never Eat Shredded Wheat

only if your going clockwise... read the above solution...

major_small
04-23-2004, 09:01 PM
reverse it and you'll see that im right... jeez... hes like a small child, always looking for whats wrong so much he misses all of the right...no, now your just in front of me and i'm looking at a big white piece of paper with listings of restaurants and tourist sites in my state...

btw, cardinal directions are, by definition, world coordinations... if you want to use local directions, you use your clock ;)

VirtualAce
04-24-2004, 09:54 AM
This thread is a perfect example of the flawed reasoning that started it.

no-one
04-24-2004, 03:27 PM
>major_small

see, your so blind to the truth you missed the entire fact that you need at least a partially transparent map!!! so you can see it properly from the other side!

>Bubba

thank you bubba this has been stated already...
second the reasoning is not flawed in the slightest, its just un realistic appearantly...

lack of sufficient motivation, or return!