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View Full Version : Farewell to 'C'



Witch_King
08-29-2001, 12:29 AM
I've met the College requirements for 'C', therefore I'm going to only write 'C++' programs from now on. I might make a few mistakes when I try to answer some questions, because I am not used to OOP, however someone can correct me. As you all know, I have no ego.

I have heard people, including teachers say that the STL is not used very much in business applications. I don't care, I'm still going to learn the STL because I have great references that I have pruchased, infact I have the best C++ books anyone can buy. I do feel however that a plan is in order to make sure that studying the C++ language and STL is a good choice. I've glossed over some C++ documents already, infact for the last month or so I've been looking over C++, albeit with many interruptions. I've discovered that OOP will definately make a programmers life much easier and infact richer. When the average programmer finally gets around to looking at VS.NET some months from now, he will notice that OOP plays a much larger part in programming than it ever has. I also believe that the next logical step is for the programmer to work with a managed language. For some people, this is a big step, but I think that it is safe to say that most programmers will end up going this route because it offers the programmer a chance to work with more complex and more powerful programs easier, and with less error. It is an exciting time to learn how to program. I would have liked to jump right into C# but the fact is that I can't do this for two reasons. First of all, I need some experience working with OOP, and the second reason is because there isn't all that much literature out there yet because VS.NET is still just a beta. I do have the SDK though. I have started reading pieces of it and noticed that this environment requires a great deal of knowledge in accessories to programming languages that extend the capabilities of the types of programs one can write.

Anyways this is my farewell to 'C'. I might not ever use it again, but I did find that is was a very good first language and a perfect console langauge. Now I know that people will say that you can do anything in 'C' but I don't want to, not when higher level languages are designed for this.

Cheeze-It
08-29-2001, 01:01 AM
What are programming classes like?

Witch_King
08-29-2001, 01:17 AM
What are programming classes like?


Programming classes are okay but they do not get into many details, just basics about classes, operator overloading, inheritance, etc. This is not the problem. In College you are on a schedule and you very often have to study things that you don't really want to. If I had a choice I would do nothing but program and learn the computer operating system. I have to study for a statistics course all night because I have an exam tommorow morning. Stuff like that makes it hard to dive into programming.

Fool
08-29-2001, 09:37 AM
I'm kind of glad the courses just skim the top of C. It should be easier for me to understand fully what's going on.

-Fool

-KEN-
08-29-2001, 03:07 PM
>>I have no ego.

must...contain...laughter....oh, who'm I kidding? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

*wipes a tear from his cheek*

Ok, I'm all good now...

Witch_King
08-29-2001, 03:25 PM
I have no ego.


Yes this is a fact because I'm willing to ask questions and take criticism. I'm not one of those type that swoop in every 10 days and search for any way possible to criticize a persons code. Not only do those types have an ego but they also need to get a life. I'm not giving any names but if I ever see one of these people in the street I'll kick their ass.

-KEN-
08-29-2001, 03:37 PM
I'm guessing you're thinking along the lines of our deceased (board-wise, that is) "sunny" (ouch! bad pun!) friend?

Witch_King
08-29-2001, 03:39 PM
Not really. I was actually talking about you, j/k.

-KEN-
08-29-2001, 03:41 PM
hey hey. let's not get into personal attacks here :) . You know I have nothing against you.

gamegod3001
08-29-2001, 07:08 PM
>I've met the College requirements for 'C', therefore I'm going to only write 'C++' programs from now on. <

Witch_Craft you do relize that the entire windows API is in C. Even if you choose to use mfc, you will most lickly need to use the api at some point.

mithrandir
08-29-2001, 07:37 PM
Forget C++, all the jobs are with Java.

Wan Valdez
08-29-2001, 09:11 PM
relize that the entire windows API is in C.


/* deleted by doubleanti for foul language */



Forget C++, all the jobs are with Java


Java can eat my shorts.

Nick
08-29-2001, 10:07 PM
WINAPI A black box you got to be joking. More like a opened toy box! This last post should be deleted!

no-one
08-29-2001, 10:54 PM
>I've met the College requirements for 'C',

Congratulations.
these a minimal... and as Fool stated only skim the top...

>therefore I'm going to only write 'C++' programs from now on.

cool beans, but you'll fail... everything is built on in now days so you always be using it in truth(with the syntax,types,libs,ect...)

>Anyways this is my farewell to 'C'. I might not ever use it again,

you will its impossible to seperate from C++

>Now I know that people will say that you can do anything in 'C'

and their right...

>not when higher level languages are designed for this.

higher level usually comprimises speed

i use a mix of C and C++ for a very nice blend of OOP and Speed works out real nice...

if you have no C++/OOP exp especially C++ exp
a warning C++ is a whole new ball game. trust me. Its way different than C. If you don't have an excellent teacher the hammering is gonna kill you, or you might be the kind of person that will adapt well...

good luck...

>This last post should be deleted!<

Wan your response is quite unneccessary...and will be reported...

Unregistered
08-30-2001, 04:01 AM
I won't have any problem with C++. It's easy as pie, and I also have the best compiler for the job, VS.NET. Fool didn't state what you say he did because he has not even started College. One again no-one you prove that you are a retard. Maybe you should change you name to no-nothing. Anyway, I have 5 free days and I'll read 'Accelerated C++' cover to cover. I read through a few chapters about two months ago but had some difficulty running the code in VC++6.

Fool
08-30-2001, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by Unregistered
Fool didn't state what you say he did because he has not even started College.

Yep.

I was saying I'm glad college just skims the top at first and doesn't completly dive in. Skiming is easier to learn the first time around:D

-Fool

no-one
08-30-2001, 01:15 PM
>I won't have any problem with C++. It's easy as pie, and I also have the best compiler for the job, VS.NET.<

C++ is not as easy as pie yo umay have no trouble with it but others might.

>Anyway, I have 5 free days and I'll read 'Accelerated C++' cover to cover. <

try that with The C++ Programming Language by Bjarne Stroustrup, id like to see if you could make it past the Preface.

>I read through a few chapters about two months ago but had some difficulty running the code in VC++6.<

VC does not meet the ANSI/ISO standard so... this can be expected.

>>Fool:I'm kind of glad the courses just skim the top of C<<
>>no-one:... and as Fool stated only skim the top...

>Fool didn't state what you say he did because he has not even started College. One again no-one you prove that you are a retard. <
+
>I was saying I'm glad college just skims the top at first and doesn't completly dive in. Skiming is easier to learn the first time around <

Unregistered,

reguardless even he can realize the FACT IT ONLY SKIMS THE TOP YOU RETARD. SO MY STATEMENT IS JUST AS VALID AS IF HE HAD GONE TO COLLEGE FOR 10 YEARS!!!!

>.Maybe you should change you name to no-nothing.

maybe you should use your brain before calling someone a retard.

Aran
08-30-2001, 02:05 PM
Alright, look, don't go flaming eachother over something simple such as this.

Use your heads please, i don't see anything here that 's worth flaming. (maybe the namecalling qualifies, but i don't remember when that was).

Witch_King
08-30-2001, 02:55 PM
try that with The C++ Programming Language by Bjarne Stroustrup, id like to see if you could make it past the Preface.


I have the special edition of this book. No problem. I'll read it after I finish Accelerated C++ and C++ Primer. By the end of November I'll have it read cover to cover and I'll understand it all.

Ofcourse VC meets the standard you dumb bastard.

no-one
08-30-2001, 05:36 PM
>I have the special edition of this book. No problem.

good...

>Ofcourse VC meets the standard you dumb bastard.

be calm no reason for this at all...
it doesn't meet the standard completely, all the reports ive read say othrewise,and it doesn't adhere to the standard either... it strays from the standard and gives no warning this is bad for compatability...

no reason for flaming here just discuss...

Witch_King
08-30-2001, 05:47 PM
VC works perfectly fine, there is no problem. I fault the authors of the book because they did the odd stupid thing with their code samples. I use VS.NET now, in other words I'm using the best compiler there is. There have been upgrades to VS.NET for doing special work with templates and generic programming, but some of this work is not part of the standard. The standard itself is fully supported.

gamegod3001
08-30-2001, 05:59 PM
One thing VS.net is still in beta so most people are not refering to that. Visual Stuido 6 does not comply to the standerds.

One more thing if IE is at version 6 why does hotmail sugest I get version 5. (I get this page as a result from using proxomtrion)

Witch_King
08-30-2001, 06:11 PM
I can't help it if you guys are poor, come on. Well I'm sure about 75% of you will all be using VS.NET sometime in 2002. It's an awesome compiler. You are all using junk right now.

gamegod3001
08-30-2001, 06:29 PM
>I can't help it if you guys are poor, come on. Well I'm sure about 75% of you will all be using VS.NET sometime in 2002. It's an awesome compiler. You are all using junk right now.<

VS.net is free so why do you think we are poor. Also the year is 2001 not 2002. and I use borland's command line with vide. I belive it is the best free compiler.

Why
[list=1]
Complies to the standard (unlike vs 6 into)
no editor
[/list=1]
[list=a]
since there is no code formating (or very poor using vide) so I learn to format my code properly.
[/list=a]

Also if you can't set it up, I see no way for you to program.

Witch_King
08-30-2001, 06:33 PM
No kidding its 2001. You don't have any common sense now? Do you have a disease or something? I didn't even vote on that thread you made which asked people which compiler they used and still VC won by a large majority, around 75%

Invisible or not, you are still a foul begger.

gamegod3001
08-30-2001, 06:48 PM
>No kidding its 2001. You don't have any common sense now? Do you have a disease or something? I didn't even vote on that thread you made which asked people which compiler they used and still VC won by a large majority, around 75%<
Yea, ever one decide that since the visual C++ editor make your code nice and pretty it was the best compier (go figure).

>Invisible or not, you are still a foul begger.
NO I am Game God 3001.

Witch_King
08-30-2001, 06:53 PM
Yea, ever one decide that since the visual C++ editor make your code nice and pretty it was the best compier (go figure).


No, that's what you think that other people believe however this is not true in the slightest bit (and you even know it). Have you even looked into .NET? Microsoft has implimented large scale changes in order to bring the programmer the best possible environment to work in.

gamegod3001
08-30-2001, 07:17 PM
>No, that's what you think that other people believe however this is not true in the slightest bit (and you even know it). Have you even looked into .NET? Microsoft has implimented large scale changes in order to bring the programmer the best possible environment to work in.<

You have got to stop traveling between 2002 and today. .net is still in development so stop using them. Microsoft is at the brink of releasing software that will revolion the software industry, so you are comparing ultra to normal. Comon you got to give us a chance.

Witch_King
08-30-2001, 07:34 PM
I have VC++6 still installed. I'm working with VS.NET beta 2 because it is very stable. I used VC++6 to run a program today and was surprised just how plain VC6 was compared to VS.NET. I almost puked on my keyboard. And you can imagine because VC6 is not a bad compiler at all, yet it is nowhere near as helpful to the programmer as VS.NET. If you had a good professional operating system like Win2k and a decent CPU and HD (7200 rpm) than you should use VS.NET beta 2. Also there is a significant amount of learning that needs to be acquired in order to understand .NET. I can write my 'unmanaged' C/C++ programs easy enough as Win32 console, but VS.NET offers much more. It's even frustrating not knowing how to use all that potential but I'm still learning the C/C++ language definitions. If you know some MFC than you would be able to tap into some of the power. VS.NET offers MFC/ATL but the .NET Framework Class Library is there too, and this thing is cross language, something liike 5000 classes waiting to be used. I don't even think is runs through the Win32 API because it is built right into the operating system, I'm not 100% clear about that though.

gamegod3001
08-30-2001, 08:02 PM
>I have VC++6 still installed. I'm working with VS.NET beta 2 because it is very stable. I used VC++6 to run a program today and was surprised just how plain VC6 was compared to VS.NET. I almost puked on my keyboard. And you can imagine because VC6 is not a bad compiler at all, yet it is nowhere near as helpful to the programmer as VS.NET. <

Good you relize that vs.net is a major improvment, over VS.net VC++ 6

>If you had a good professional operating system like Win2k and a decent CPU and HD (7200 rpm) than you should use VS.NET beta 2. <
I plan to buid/buy a new computer in about a year. (why do I need such a large rpm for my hard drive I have a 5400 rpm on my computer now that I was going to keep)

>Also there is a significant amount of learning that needs to be acquired in order to understand .NET. I can write my 'unmanaged' C/C++ programs easy enough as Win32 console, but VS.NET offers much more. It's even frustrating not knowing how to use all that potential but I'm still learning the C/C++ language definitions. If you know some MFC than you would be able to tap into some of the power. VS.NET offers MFC/ATL but the .NET Framework Class Library is there too, and this thing is cross language, something liike 5000 classes waiting to be used. I don't even think is runs through the Win32 API because it is built right into the operating system, I'm not 100% clear about that though.<
First what is the diffrence betwwen 'unmanaged' and 'managed' C/C++.
Second I don't know mfc (or care to currantly since my aim is to create games so knowing the basic windows api is good enough for me at this time)
Third isn't xp profesional a 64 bit OS. So wount there be a win64 api.

I will have no plans of buying any profesinal development envorment's until I start collage. Unless microsoft release a truly free compier (no message boxes, or other things the Intoducty version has) I will probley never use .net. I will contiue to use borland command line since it the best free compiler.

Witch_King
08-30-2001, 09:09 PM
First what is the diffrence betwwen 'unmanaged' and 'managed' C/C++.


Managed C++ can be written but you have to turn this feature on. Anyway any language that takes advantage of the common language runtime (CLR) is managed code. You have a choice as far as C++ goes but all C# code is managed.



I have a 5400 rpm on my computer now that I was going to keep)


That would be a good secondary HD, you don't have to throw it away. I have an 8GB 3100rpm backup and I use it to store a lot of documents and video, but a main 7200rpm HD is hard to beat.



Third isn't xp profesional a 64 bit OS. So wount there be a win64 api.


There will be a 64 bit version but there will also be a 32 bit version. The 64 bit version will have a Win64 API.



I will have no plans of buying any profesinal development envorment's until I start collage.


No wonder you don't care much for Microsoft. If I had to run Win9X I'd hate it too. The only problem with staying with the existing compilers is that you won't be able to write programs that use Next Generation Windows Services. There is a lot to learn. A programmer is empowered by the new technology. It would be good if a person started to learn about it as soon as possible.

gamegod3001
08-31-2001, 06:56 PM
>That would be a good secondary HD, you don't have to throw it away. I have an 8GB 3100rpm backup and I use it to store a lot of documents and video, but a main 7200rpm HD is hard to beat. <

When I start looking I'll put a hard drive low on my list, since it is not needed but wanted. Should it out rank a cd burner?

>No wonder you don't care much for Microsoft. If I had to run Win9X I'd hate it too. The only problem with staying with the existing compilers is that you won't be able to write programs that use Next Generation Windows Services. There is a lot to learn. A programmer is empowered by the new technology. It would be good if a person started to learn about it as soon as possible.<

I don't care for any commpany I use what is best for me. (unless I have to use it) I use this computer since my dad gave it to me. When he brought a gateway, and windows 98 since it came with his computer. The same goes for microsoft office. When there is no real best as in opengl w/sdl or directx I will try both, detirming the best for me. I use borlands free command line w/vide since I it is the best free. If I were to choose between VC++ 6 and builder I would go for bulider, since I don't care if it makes your code pretty.

Witch_King
08-31-2001, 07:00 PM
Yes, a HD is much more important than a CD burner. But CD burners are not expensive. If you look at DVD burners, than that might cost significantly more, at least at the present time.

Both VC++6 and Borland builder are uselses.

no-one
08-31-2001, 08:19 PM
one point i must make Witch_King about VC is that the template support is greatly lacking in fact its so bad there almost impossible to use and this leads to a question will the support be better in VS.NET? it might make the C++ compiler part of it worth getting.

Witch_King
08-31-2001, 08:27 PM
No, you are not allowed to get VS.NET. You have to get something else. I don't think that Microsoft is going to allow you to purchase their software any more. I sent an email to Bill Gates about this.

no-one
08-31-2001, 08:33 PM
hahahahahaha ok then. thanks.

gamegod3001
08-31-2001, 08:45 PM
>Both VC++6 and Borland builder are uselses.<
It was hypothathical response I am not getting a profesial compier until collage. (unless I come into tons of monney)

>Yes, a HD is much more important than a CD burner. But CD burners are not expensive. If you look at DVD burners, than that might cost significantly more, at least at the present time. <

So do you agree with this optional list

1. New hard drive
2. Burner
3. Sound //card speakers everything
{equally ranked }
3. moniter
4. Keyboard
6 anything else.

Witch_King
08-31-2001, 09:11 PM
I don't know. I don't do it that way. I go out and buy whatever I need. I would think that a monitor would be quite important if you only have a 15 inch right now. I have a 17 inch and find it not too bad to work with.