PDA

View Full Version : How to strip?



Sebastiani
11-29-2003, 01:24 PM
Put your clothes on, son, this is a science question. :D

My question is this:

What would be the easiest way to degrade an element to the next size down? I thought maybe it would be to first free a neutron, then take this isotope and blast it with a proton beam to free the proton. Is that feasable?

Jeremy G
11-29-2003, 02:18 PM
element->degrade(1.0);







common, who didnt see that one commin?

Silvercord
11-29-2003, 03:28 PM
adrian, clyde and confuted would know, they're all science/chemistry buffs.

Clyde
11-30-2003, 07:22 AM
My grasp of radioactivity is very rusty but

I think you can make an atom decay by hitting it with neutrons (maybe protons too?) but it won't neccesarily decay to the next element.

There are different forms of radiation, beta-radiation is where a neutron in the nucleus decays to a proton and spits out an electron.

alpha radiation is where the nucleus spits out a hellium nucleus: two protons and two neutrons.

So presumeably you could add a proton/neutron producing an unstable nucleus that would then decay via alpha/beta/a combination of the two, or instead split into two smaller nuclei and a bunch of neutrons (thats fission).

But getting from say Chlorine to Sulphur, i don't think is likely to be feasable (though as i say i'm pretty rusty, so i may have made gargantuan errors :)).

Zach L.
11-30-2003, 09:48 AM
Unless the target element happens to be in the decay series of what you have, I really can't see any easy way of doing it.

Ken Fitlike
11-30-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Clyde
summary of radiochemistry

There's also k-capture: absorption of a k-shell electron with the same effect as beta-plus(positron) emission ie a reduction in nuclear charge.

Silvercord
11-30-2003, 05:51 PM
i find it wildly amazing that i actually have a clue about what you guys are talking about. chemistry was hell for me.

golfinguy4
11-30-2003, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by Ken Fitlike
There's also k-capture: absorption of a k-shell electron with the same effect as beta-plus(positron) emission ie a reduction in nuclear charge.

Wow Mr. Fitlike... Could this possibly be related to your profession?

Sebastiani
11-30-2003, 11:55 PM
>> There's also k-capture: absorption of a k-shell electron with the same effect as beta-plus(positron) emission ie a reduction in nuclear charge.

Ken?? Is...that...you? :D

I'm just trying to work out a theory here. I would prefer a straightforword method (ie: blasting atoms with neutron beams or similar) Anyone ever heard of this actually being achieved - that is: degrading (stable) elements in this way?

Zach L.
12-01-2003, 12:02 AM
Look at the field of alchemy. ;)

Ken Fitlike
12-01-2003, 06:16 AM
>>Anyone ever heard of this actually being achieved<<

neutron-proton (n,p) reactions (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=n%2Cp+reactions&btnG=Google+Search), examples include oxygen (http://www.triumf.ca/safety/rpt/rpt_2/node29.html) and nitrogen (http://www.plus2physics.com/nucleus_and_radioactivity/study_material.asp?chapter=3&page=2)

If you're looking for a more rigorous approach perhaps take a look at capture cross section (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=capture+cross+section+neutron+flux&btnG=Google+Search); I don't think there's any formal, predictive maths for systematic elemental transmutations; as far as I know radio/nuclear chemistry is still very much an empirical science.

RoD
12-02-2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Sebastiani
Put your clothes on, son, this is a science question. :D


Damn. Ok, then.