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ZakkWylde969
10-20-2003, 06:02 PM
Ugh. Alrighty. I'm doing ap chem and we are in the middle of memorizing just about every ion and its charge. (also a lot of ionic compounds) I've been studying allot from the worksheet, but I keep failing these things. I swear I can't find a ogod way to study them because most ions have more than one charge (IE gold, lead, mercury) and its a little hard for flash cards. So if anyone here actually learned them what was your thing for learning. It's really hard, as I have little motivation of learning these other than making a good grade.

confuted
10-20-2003, 06:31 PM
I know most of them. Well, the important ones at least. But our AP Chem class is moving a lot faster than yours, it seems. That was... a day. Literally. We've covered solubility rules (more memorization), titrations, and we're well into redox reactions. You'll also get to memorize the list of strong acids and strong bases at some point. Anyway, it helps to just do problems with the stuff, and keep your sheet with the ions in a binder so it takes work to look stuff up. Then you'll memorize it just to make it easier.

ZakkWylde969
10-20-2003, 06:45 PM
Yeah we went over binary acids and ionic acids (Such as bromic acid and the such). Its a lot of memorization and I have the worst time with it. We did a worksheet over basic swap an' drop compounds that we were supposted to know about a month ago and I got maybe 11/200. It was really sad. I just have problems with the stuff with variable charges and also things like perchlorate and all. I want to drop out of AP for a lower class, but I need this AP credit. It sucks.

axon
10-20-2003, 06:46 PM
A few years back, in my chem AP class I did a similar thing to what confuted did. I just kept a sheet with all the ions heandy. There is no easier way to memorize them, then by doing problems like confuted said.

Sadly, or not, I don't remember much from my chem class these days. I'm sure if I had a quick refresher it would come back.

unanimous
10-20-2003, 07:20 PM
Just go get a TI calculator and the Periodic Table app for it, then use that to cheat. :)

ZakkWylde969
10-20-2003, 07:25 PM
Best answer yet. Great idea.

axon
10-20-2003, 07:44 PM
Only great if the teacher doesn't check your calc before test. All my teachers in high school did, and all because one kid got caught at the beginning of the semester.

I'm glad that at my university calculators really don't matter. There is too much material to put everything in the calculator.

ZakkWylde969
10-20-2003, 07:55 PM
Our teachers aren't the brightest. Half of them can't figure out how to get their computer working. A pretty funny story is that a new teacher came in and got on his computer for the first time, he was messing around on it for a while and when I got up he called me to the front to help him with his monitor problem as he could not see anything.

Problem: No monitor
Solution: Plugging in the cord to the computer.

Funniest thing I ever saw happen.

confuted
10-21-2003, 03:44 PM
I used some flash cards when memorizing functional groups. Of course... I only knew them for about five minutes, and then forgot them. I still remember alcohol, because that was easy. As for the rest... whoops. I'll learn it late-April.

Clyde
10-21-2003, 04:13 PM
I hate memorisation, but it is often possible to substitute some of it for principles:

Off the top my head you could probably deduce most anions (negatively charged ions) thrown at you using:

The octet rule: All atoms want full outer shells.

Remembering that

Halides form -1 ions and that
Oxygen almost always forms a -2 oxidation state

and
Looking for sensible values (values that aren't too big, i doubt any ions you see will have more than a +/-3 charge on them)

E.g. SO4

Both S and O are in group 6, therefore to get full outer shells they both either need to gain 2 electrons or lose 6, oxygen almost always gains 2.

If S also gains 2 we have an overall charge of 10-

If it loses 6, we have an overall charge 2-

we choose 2- because 10- is not reasonable.

E.g. NO3

Oxygen will again have a -2 charge, nitrogen can either have a -3 or a +5, and an overall charge of -1 is more reasonable than -9, so you conclude its charge is -1.

Now there are exceptions, but memorising the exceptions is still less memorising than learning them all by rote.

For cations the octet rule will work for non transition metals.

Dalren
10-21-2003, 05:22 PM
See this is why you should have taken AP Physics instead of chem, physics is better and no memorizing.

I still shudder at the thought of taking AP Chem, sadly might have to take a chem class next semester :(

ZakkWylde969
10-21-2003, 06:57 PM
I'm pretty sure chemestry is a required. At least I think. My mom decided to go with AP. It sucks because I spend all my time trying to learn the stuff and I can't do the important stuff like get my Linux working again and all that stuff. Its annoying. I think I'm just going to shoot for a low B or high C and try to bring my GPA up with Zero period (sorta like summer school but optional).

axon
10-21-2003, 08:04 PM
Hey, its better to take chem in high school and get a good grade on the AP exam, than taking chem in a university. Unfortunately, chem is one of the drop/fail courses, where students are simply "weeded" out. Man, if I was in hs again, I would take as many AP courses as possible, instead of wasting my time on them at a university.

By wasting time I don't mean that they are unimportant, but quite tough; much tougher than hs.

confuted
10-21-2003, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Dalren
See this is why you should have taken AP Physics instead of chem, physics is better and no memorizing.

I still shudder at the thought of taking AP Chem, sadly might have to take a chem class next semester :(

I learned the AP Physics B curriculum on my own in April (yes, just April and a week of May) last year, thankyouverymuch. No, my Honors Physics class was NO preparation, and I'm serious about that. I scored a 5.

Now it's time for AP Chem...no doubt with some AP Physics C studying on the side.

axon
10-22-2003, 12:22 AM
Hey confuted, I never took Phys AP in high school...is it calculus based, or algebra? Because I'm hearing both answers from different people. Some had calc some had alg...my school in the college of engineering only accepts calc based phys AP exam, but some schools accept either or

confuted
10-22-2003, 06:14 AM
Originally posted by axon
Hey confuted, I never took Phys AP in high school...is it calculus based, or algebra? Because I'm hearing both answers from different people. Some had calc some had alg...my school in the college of engineering only accepts calc based phys AP exam, but some schools accept either or
The B exam is the equivalent of a full year of algebra based physics.

There are two C exams - E&M and Mechanics. Each is considered the equivalent of a semester of calculus based physics.

Clyde
10-22-2003, 08:42 AM
physics is better and no memorizing


You still have to memorise a lot of equations since in many instances it is impractical to derive them from base principles.

axon
10-22-2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Clyde
You still have to memorise a lot of equations since in many instances it is impractical to derive them from base principles.

thats true...but at least allmost everything makes sense...and if you do forget an equation, it is a sintch to derive it! Thats why I will take any physics over any chemistry all the time.

EvBladeRunnervE
10-22-2003, 11:24 AM
Well, on the purpose of memorization, have you tried chanting? no, not the religious kind, i mean chanting the terms/ions/molecules/etc. and then the definition/answer/etc.. It has done wonders for me in college, as instead of having to reread the book at mid-term/finals time, i can look at just a list that has the terms and recite the definitions from them by heart(now, understanding things is different, and requires actual solving problems based on them, as well understanding how different things work together).

Clyde
10-22-2003, 11:46 AM
thats true...but at least allmost everything makes sense...and if you do forget an equation, it is a sintch to derive it! Thats why I will take any physics over any chemistry all the time.


Well i'd say that chemistry makes sense too, it's just that you don't get taught much of the reasoning behind stuff untill later (or unless you go looking).

In terms of physics it depends what level your at i guess, it gets harder and harder and longer and longer to derive equations from base principles as the equations get more complex, what that means is that in practice you need to know the equations because you cannot afford to waste time in exams deriving them.

axon
10-22-2003, 12:12 PM
Well, I'm only on Phys 2; E&M calculus based, and it is fairly simple still. Mechanics calc based, was a joke really...but that is probably because I like physics, because it is one of the drop courses. There were 4 sections with about 100 students each in mechanics, and about 300 got a 'D' or lower. But the physics program at my school is quite famous in being extra difficult. It is worth 4 credit hours, yet I'm in class 8 hours a week!!! Next semester its Phys 3 ' modern physics', this is the outline: "Special theory of relativity. Particle-wave duality. Uncertainty principle. Bohr model Introduction to quantum mechanics. Schroedinger equation. Hydrogen atom. Many-electron atoms. Introduction to nuclear and particle physics." - looks interesting.

The professors are trully horrible, but this is done on purpose in courses such as Calc 1 - 3, Chem 1 -2, and Phys 1 - 2. School's simply don't have space for all the engineering students in the more major based technical courses so they eliminate weak links, so to speak.

I'm taking Linear Algebra now, with the same professor who tought me Calc 1; at first I was horrified to see him again, but what a different person he is! In calc 1 he simpy was terrible, he just did what he had to, to cover the material in the book, again about half the people failed. Now, he is great!

Clyde
10-22-2003, 04:10 PM
Next semester its Phys 3 ' modern physics', this is the outline: "Special theory of relativity. Particle-wave duality. Uncertainty principle. Bohr model Introduction to quantum mechanics. Schroedinger equation. Hydrogen atom. Many-electron atoms. Introduction to nuclear and particle physics." - looks interesting


I write the schrodinger equation wherever i find condensation, all the mirrors and windows of my house have multiple (albeit faded) copies on them. When i was living with a theology student he used to ask me what it meant... now that's a challenge: explain the S.E. to someone who hasn't taken science past school.

Still looks like some good stuff there, if you haven't come across Q.M. before it will blow your mind and redefine the way you think about how nature "ought" to behave.

So you're a 1st year undergraduate, and are going to major in physics?

axon
10-22-2003, 05:48 PM
No actually I'm a third year, undergrad, majoring in CS engineering, with math and physics minors. I wanted to get done with all of calculus before taking any physics; things just make more sense once you have a solid mathematical background.

>>I write the schrodinger equation wherever i find condensation,
>>all the mirrors and windows of my house have multiple (albeit
>>faded) copies on them.

how ironic..hehe. I used to be obssesed with fractals, and coming up with simple ways to draw then by hand.

Anyone ever obssesed with pi? has anyone seen the movie entitled "Pi". If not, it is worth a look see.

axon

confuted
10-22-2003, 07:13 PM
Answering both your questions:

from memory: 3.1415926535897932384626

And yes, I've seen the movie.

the Wookie
10-22-2003, 07:37 PM
im taking ap physics. its mostly algerbra. if you understand the concepts then the math comes easy.

axon
10-22-2003, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by the Wookie
im taking ap physics. its mostly algerbra. if you understand the concepts then the math comes easy.

Yes, but algebra based phys is nothing like calc based phys. You can't do the "cool" and interesting things without calc...maybe not so much in mechanics, but deffinately in E&M.

Hey confuted, if you liked 'pi', check out "Requiem for a dream"; it is by the same director, and it is freakin amazing. Marlin Waynes (sp?), is one of the actors in it...at first I thought the movie will be a joke if he is playing in it...but as it turns out, he gave a damn decent performance. Jennifer Conely (sp?) is also in the film as well. The movie is quite graphic; it tackles many themes that other directors would not dare touch. If you know anyone who does drugs, and you want to help them get over their habit...have them watch the movie - sober of course. It could change their life.

confuted
10-22-2003, 08:21 PM
I already watched that too ;) Good ol' heroin addicts. It was a bit strange, and actually rather disturbing.

Zach L.
10-22-2003, 09:07 PM
Hmm... I distinctly remember doing plenty of surface integrals and the like when I took AP Phys C. There wasn't anything nearly that nasty on the actual exam though.

In Newtonian mechanics and E&M, it is definitely not too bad (from a relative standpoint) to rederive things, but it can be a pain. I can't speak about quantum mechanics, but I do know that rederiving some equations for fluid dynamics would be a disaster on a test.

Chemistry, at least AP Chemistry is not that bad really. All you've really got to do to find your equations is use dimensional analysis, and make sure to remember the units of any constant. Some idea of the physics behind chemistry definitely helps, but is not strictly necessary to get the equations.

Now, if there was a nice formula for AP English Lit, I'd be set. ;)

axon
10-22-2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Zach L.
Hmm... I distinctly remember doing plenty of surface integrals and the like when I took AP Phys C. There wasn't anything nearly that nasty on the actual exam though.

thats the difference between taking Phys in hs vs college...in college the exams are "nastier"!

confuted: I really liked the way the director showed the whole process of the preparation and injection of the drug...really brilliant, and super effective! I saw many others try to do a similar thing in their movies, but no one comes close. I hope that the director, Darren Aronofsky, will make another movie. I really have to say that both of the movies we have been discussing are in my top ten best.

Zach L.
10-24-2003, 10:06 PM
I can imagine. The tests during the year were rather "nasty", but the AP itself wasn't. I can imagine college level would be pretty bad as well.