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joeyzt
10-02-2003, 05:02 PM
A bit OT bit you guys are the experts. What are the implications of this ?

halflife2.net

bennyandthejets
10-02-2003, 06:01 PM
I don't think this is a good thing. Surely this will be bad for game sales. Dodgy versions of the game will be out soon for sure, provided enough of the source code is there. Damn whoever leaked the code!!!

I briefly considered finding the code and having a look. Briefly was about 3 milliseconds before my programmer's sympathy kicked in. The HalfLife2 team have put in so much effort to make game, and any good programmer would do everything in his/her power to make that worth it for them. So I hope no posts go up on these forums condoning the use of this source code. If anyone finds out anything about the leak, do the right thing and send the information to Valve, there is an address at www.halflife2.net where you can send it.

Cat
10-02-2003, 07:07 PM
Well, it's JUST the source -- no graphics, sounds, etc. as I understand it, so someone could only build the engine, not the game.

glUser3f
10-02-2003, 07:20 PM
this will be heaven for cheaters, the engine source code is the best thing they can dream of to create cheats.

HybridM
10-02-2003, 11:23 PM
I feel so sorry for them, this is really a horrible thing to do. There has been tonnes of interest in their engine (perhaps ironically called Source), I just really hope this doesn't somehow effect licence sales.

Maybe nvidia will be able to use the code to get some semi-cridble performance from their cards in HL2, which would be cheating as HL2 is also going to be a benchmark, but it will be good for the suckers who bought FXs.

bennyandthejets
10-02-2003, 11:28 PM
Jawib, whoever posted that message is an idiot.
Up yours. That source code represents years of work by good people. Is it a crime to care?

Jeremy G
10-03-2003, 12:33 AM
It should be clarified that ther will be NO DODGY versions of hl2 released - source code that was leaked is not the ENGINE source. You see, the source code compiles into vms, dlls or what ever mechanism to be loaded as Libraries for the actual hl ENGINE. The engine is what contains things like rendering routines, windows and graphic modes, input capturing etc. With out the actual hl2.EXE , the source code is of no use. The only use the source code WILL have is to HL2 Mod teams- how are getting a sneak peak (warranted or unwarranted - as it seems a ploy of marketing to me to pass over the delay they DENIED until 2 days after..) at game play source. How ever, no mod will be testable until hl2 is released.

HybridM
10-03-2003, 12:56 AM
I don't know any details but I can't imagine Gabe himself would make a public appeal if it was just gameplay code and not the engine.

Jeremy G
10-03-2003, 01:02 AM
Well think about it for a moment- every one was phyched about hl2 coming out september 30, and gabe himself denied it being delayed, practically the day of estimated release finaly admits it will be delayed "hoping" for a holiday release... People were really ........ed about it.

The greatest thing for a company is hype, it makes the publishers more agreeable and forth coming with the money that pays for the development. I dunno about you, but when the delay was announced, I noticed a lot of people just stop talking about hl2. Sure, Not at hl2.net, but other community sites.

If you think about it, the source code is released to the public any ways so modders can contribute to the game (what made and makes quake and half life so populer and ever evovling). I highly doubt releasing it early (before the game is released) will have any actual negative effect. I really think it was a manuever to get every one buzzing about half life 2 again.

nickname_changed
10-03-2003, 01:43 AM
Its strange, in a way I always wished all programs were open source, but for people to put soo much effort into something like that and then have it stolen makes you feel really bad for them. Maybe its just because its the gaming industry and they're a lot closer to their users than others. Personally I've never even played halflife, but poor gabe :(

DeepBlackMagic
10-03-2003, 03:44 AM
On one level, yes i feel sorry for the coders that dedicated their lives to writing that software, however about 3 seconds after that i feel like valve got what they deserved. They recently disposed of the WON (For any of you that are farmilliar with their products, and online gameplay, im sure you know what this is, and why i think valve should pay for what they have done / are going to do) and implimented some stupid buggy naziware called STEAM. <Insert favorite joke involving STEAMing heap of bullcrud here> With the source there are bits and pieces to other valve projects, and its rather apparent that steam will in the future support monthly billing. Thats whats got alot of gamers mad and scared, having to pay every month, to play a game you already bought and own. That billing style is amazingly stupid. Most gamers are children, and dont have credit cards. And who would honestly trust their credit cards and other IDENTIFYING information to some company that cant even protect the source code to their game. Im sorry that the coders got screwed, but they should know better than to write naziware. If your out there writing code thats for DRM, or other subversive perposes for big business to control MY PC, your doing something ethically wrong, and any company paying coders to write that code deserves to have their source stolen, credibility ruined, and products shunned. I understand that many of you have no interest in games, or STEAM or any of these politics, and your looking at it strictly from a coders point of view and thats fine, just consider though that a MAJORITY of people who USE THEIR SOFTWARE would find something ethically wrong with whats being writen, and thats why this is not a tragity. Imagine if the full source code to windows 2003 (whatever they call it these days) were stolen? It undoubtably contains DRM code (For those of you that dont know what this is, google or visit www.NOTCPA.org) that would operate on peoples computers and tell them what they can and can not do with hardware and software they legally own, and limit their freedoms. Would it be bad if all of their code were disclosed? Im sure there would be some serious revisions to security, as well as evidence against them and their evil ways. It would open up the door for competition.... Anyways its late and im rambling again, thanks for your time.

kermi3
10-03-2003, 05:43 AM
Note: If anyone posts a link or any other information pertaining to obtaining the illegal code it will be promptly deleted, and they could risk banning or other punitive actions.


This is absolutely incredable. I can't believe that someone would leak something like this. May God have mercy on the fool who stole the code.....cause accident or not Valve won't!

Valve's official statement. (http://halflife2.homelan.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=5)

BMJ
10-03-2003, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by bennyandthejets
Up yours. That source code represents years of work by good people. Is it a crime to care? No it's not a crime to care.

And I didn't say that it's not a shame someone had to do this to make a statement.

I implied that there are not going to be "dodgy versions" of HL2 sprouting up because of this. I assumed RoD wouldn't take a quote like that out of another post rather than posting in that thread, I assumed wrong.

kermi3
10-03-2003, 06:42 AM
It should be clarified that ther will be NO DODGY versions of hl2 released - source code that was leaked is not the ENGINE source. You see, the source code compiles into vms, dlls or what ever mechanism to be loaded as Libraries for the actual hl ENGINE.

I can't find it anymore, but I saw a file list. It included a large directory named "Engine" with several hundred .h and .C++ files. That and everything else I've heard leads me to believe that the engine was indeed stolen.

maes
10-03-2003, 07:51 AM
BMJ, this guy stole your avatar (or you from him :p
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10591&perpage=15&pagenumber=12
or is it you?

Brian
10-03-2003, 08:34 AM
Just to clarify. It is a huge amount of source code, It does include the engine, and this is a bad thing.



//=========== (C) Copyright 1999 Valve, L.L.C. All rights reserved. ===========
//
// The copyright to the contents herein is the property of Valve, L.L.C.
// The contents may be used and/or copied only with the written permission of
// Valve, L.L.C., or in accordance with the terms and conditions stipulated in
// the agreement/contract under which the contents have been supplied.
//
// $Header: $
// $NoKeywords: $
//
// Implementation of a material
//================================================== ===========================


and some disclaimers say copyright 2003. I was really looking forward to this game, and I hope this does not have a negative impact on the game itself (but hey, maybe this means someone will compile it for linux :))

RoD
10-03-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by BMJ
No it's not a crime to care.

And I didn't say that it's not a shame someone had to do this to make a statement.

I implied that there are not going to be "dodgy versions" of HL2 sprouting up because of this. I assumed RoD wouldn't take a quote like that out of another post rather than posting in that thread, I assumed wrong.

I didnt post any quotes BMJ, what are you talking about?

HybridM
10-03-2003, 11:16 AM
however about 3 seconds after that i feel like valve got what they deserved. No one deserves this.
This is the game industry people, I can't remember any games that weren't delayed, everyone knew half-life2 was gonna be delayed, perhaps Gabe was hopeful that whatever it was would be easily resolved, you don't know.

I wish people would stop all this open source talk, you're like modern day hippies! There are times when open source doesn't work, and I think that's here. Companies need to make money, if their source code is freely available, why would anyone bother paying for licences? Licences will probably make up more money for valve than sales.

BMJ
10-03-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by RoD
I didnt post any quotes BMJ, what are you talking about? Er, I meant JaWib... I haven't slept in over a day :(
It should be clarified that ther will be NO DODGY versions of hl2 released - source code that was leaked is not the ENGINE source. You see, the source code compiles into vms, dlls or what ever mechanism to be loaded as Libraries for the actual hl ENGINE.The entire engine's source was leaked... er, don't hate me for being curious and looking myself. I was actually quite blown away to be looking HL2's engine source. The leak contained batch build files/notes that no SDK would have, and even contained the "to-be" released public SDK directory. :( But yes, the entire engine was leaked.

BMJ
10-03-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by HybridM
I wish people would stop all this open source talk, you're like modern day hippies! There are times when open source doesn't workYes, retail games should not be open-source, IMHO.

the Wookie
10-03-2003, 02:36 PM
whered you get the SS from brian?

confuted
10-03-2003, 02:56 PM
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11913



While the source code does not include the full game, the source code of the engine can be examined to create exploits in the game.

I just looked around for a few minutes to see how hard it was to find the source. I didn't try very hard, because I don't want it, but I didn't see it anywhere. Hopefully it's hard to find.

Brian
10-03-2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by the Wookie
whered you get the SS from brian?

Uhhh...a friend :)

DeepBlackMagic
10-03-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by HybridM
No one deserves this.
This is the game industry people, I can't remember any games that weren't delayed, everyone knew half-life2 was gonna be delayed, perhaps Gabe was hopeful that whatever it was would be easily resolved, you don't know.

I wish people would stop all this open source talk, you're like modern day hippies! There are times when open source doesn't work, and I think that's here. Companies need to make money, if their source code is freely available, why would anyone bother paying for licences? Licences will probably make up more money for valve than sales.

This has nothing to do with delays, or open source. They were up to no good with a new billing model and BACK DOORED PRODUCTS. Read the partial source from steam. Ask people that know about steam. They can remotely install, delete, edit, and control your pooter. It is DRM and DRM is wrong.

BMJ
10-03-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by maes
BMJ, this guy stole your avatar (or you from him :p
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10591&perpage=15&pagenumber=12
or is it you? Nope, not me... they stole Hillbillie's avatar @ FD too ;D

Silvercord
10-03-2003, 11:52 PM
i found it on kazaa in about five minutes. i dont' know if i am going to download it...would it really be wrong just to look at it? I'm a coder and could actually appreciate their work, as long as I don't use it to cheat (which I wouldn't, because I hate playing multiplayer games anyway)

bennyandthejets
10-04-2003, 01:19 AM
The source code will come out legally eventually anyway. I think, as a token of appreciation, it would be better to wait until then. For now, buy the game (when it comes out) and have some fun.

Silvercord
10-04-2003, 01:29 AM
What makes you think the source will ever be released legally to non licensees?

BMJ
10-04-2003, 01:34 AM
No, some people are confused...

Valve's SDK is not their complete engine source. Which btw, is lisenced from ID software (it's still using a Quake base apparently :))

bennyandthejets
10-04-2003, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by Silvercord
What makes you think the source will ever be released legally to non licensees?
They usually do don't they? Like, Q2 source came out recently. Although, it did take quite a while.

Silvercord
10-04-2003, 02:12 AM
so because id releases their stuff you think everyone does? that's like saying just because bmj is gay and just because I have sex with him you assume that I too am gay...wow benny stop being so gay...wow that post i just made was really gay...yay...

bennyandthejets
10-04-2003, 03:06 AM
What are you, 5 years old? All I said was I thought people usually release source code. I never said I was sure. Grow up.

nvoigt
10-04-2003, 08:19 AM
The sources that are eventually released are so old that the games aren't played anymore.

I haven't looked at the source yet, although I will. Just imagine if the networking part was stolen. Any good coder could code a proxy server so he can run his (client side detectable) cheats on one computer and have his (checked) gaming client on another. Absolutely undetectable cheats. Happy gaming... not !

RoD
10-04-2003, 10:11 AM
The SDK would have been released just like Hal Life's was, but that doesnt include the engine. As for quake, that has been out for a long time.

And as far as buying it, i have had a preorder on my copy since the beginning of summer, was supposed to ship in september but now this crap :rolleyes:

HybridM
10-04-2003, 02:03 PM
I don't know anything about steam, I've never used it and I never will. To me Steam sounds like another of Valve's great initiatives, that new protocol (name escapes me).

But I loved half-life to death, that's all I care about.

Cat
10-04-2003, 02:16 PM
I think a lot of people are making mountains out of molehills -- Valve won't be hurt commercially, because no serious company will use a stolen version of the engine as opposed to licensing. Realistically, this is not nearly as bad as pirated copies of the final game, and we all know those are inevitable once release happens. This has the engine, but not the textures, etc. that would be needed for a production version.

About the only thing the source is good for is looking in awe at how a professional game is written.

ZerOrDie
10-04-2003, 02:34 PM
The sources that are eventually released are so old that the games aren't played anymore.


the number of people who still play quake 1-3 is impressive...

nvoigt
10-04-2003, 04:03 PM
About the only thing the source is good for is looking in awe at how a professional game is written.


When you look at the CS scene and how much work goes into developing cheats and anticheat tools, you will see that leaked source is about the worst that can happen to an online multiplayer game that has players waiting to build new cheats and bots...

Eric19
10-04-2003, 04:58 PM
The source code is also good for figuring out how the game works..Being able to develop cheats for it.. And also give Valves competitors a chance if they have no morals, to see what makes Halflife2 tick, and figure out how Valve pulled off alot of the stuff in the game like that really advanced ai... This has bad implications for Valve, cause now the game will have to be delayed so they can modify the code to make sure the cheats can be prevented... and also Valve might get sued, cause in the source was released the source for other things that they had licensed from other companys.. Which are going to be very ........ed about, and might blame Valve for the code getting out... Those companys life blood is in the sources they license to companys like Valve, and now that its out..Theyll want to be reimbursed.

BMJ
10-04-2003, 05:50 PM
Some of you belong on the Counter-Strike.net forums :rolleyes:

RoD
10-04-2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by BMJ
Some of you belong on the Counter-Strike.net forums :rolleyes:

LMAO hahaha burn

Brian
10-05-2003, 04:40 AM
Uhh...IT'S NOT THEIR SDK!. It was stolen from a developers computer using an Internet Explorer bug, from within an email message opened with Outlook Express.

Glirk Dient
10-05-2003, 07:54 AM
Hopefully Valve will find out who stole it, and everyon that downloaded it so they can sue everyone that has it to make more money and maybe hire a top notch mod team to make some sweet mods for HL2.

I wouldn't worry about this too much, there shouldn't be any cheating online, and offline, well there always is an who cares? It won't affect you.

It is a real shame that their code was stolen, I can only hope that the people that do download it either don't know what to do with it(Kids that get it for the sake of having it) or are people that won't use it to steal the code and implement into their own engine/game.

RoD
10-05-2003, 10:54 AM
Sue everyone who has it? What are you stupid? Everyone who cares about HL, within reason, has this source. So now your going to sue your market? Brilliance, why didnt i think of that!

SMurf
10-05-2003, 11:58 AM
If I were an evil lawyer type that would indeed be a brilliant idea. Why get $40 from each person in the market for buying Half-Life when you can get $40,000+ by suing them?

If I were an evil lawyer type. :p

RoD
10-05-2003, 12:29 PM
Yea, because that would be a smart move in the long run? So your going to sue the HL community over HL2 source, and ruin the driving and developmental force that HL2 carried with it? So you not only wreck HL2 but wreck the potential of community HL2 expansion and possibility of a HL3 because you killed the market.

Wrong, its a stupid idea.

Silvercord
10-05-2003, 02:42 PM
they will never find the people that stole it, and even if they do they will never eradicate it from the internet. On top of being on kazaa, it's already spreading like wildfire via underground transfer programs such as bit torrent.

DeepBlackMagic
10-05-2003, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Silvercord
...underground transfer programs such as bit torrent.

SSSHHHH!!!!! DONT TELL ANYBODY!!!

RoD
10-05-2003, 02:44 PM
yea cuz ppl dont already know :rolleyes:

DeepBlackMagic
10-05-2003, 02:53 PM
I am joking but im sure you of all people knew that =P