PDA

View Full Version : World War II



ZakkWylde969
09-11-2003, 07:54 PM
Since the 9-11 thread was talking about WWII and all and its out of place I figured I would continue it here. Didn't the Pearl Harbor attack happen before they declared war? And wasn't it a mix between a military and civilian place? Also if you want a story on some of the horrors of what happened on the Jap side of the war a book I would recommend is Ghost Soldiers by Hampton Sides. It's a true story about what happened to the survivors of the (spell check)Battan Death March and how they were rescued. I've read that book at least 7 times.

Ok and for the 2 WWII nuclear bombings of the cities. I agree that yeah it probably did save more lives. It definatly was NOT something that we should have done however. As far as I know those attacks were not of military targets and should never have happened. But towards the person with the yellow avatar why should we be ashamed of something our country did so long ago? Every country has shamed itself at least once. Do you blame all Germans for Hitler? Do you blame Japanese for torturing POWS? And stealing someone elses point, do you blame all British people for slavery and all that junk? Our ancestors did it NOT us. I hope this doesn't turn into an arguement. I was just posting some ideas I had.

major_small
09-11-2003, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by ZakkWylde969
And wasn't it a mix between a military and civilian place?it was a military base with military families living on it... and most of the bombing happened in the water, where there were mostly military ships...

confuted
09-11-2003, 08:14 PM
>>Didn't the Pearl Harbor attack happen before they declared war?<<
Technically, they declared war several hours before hand. However, due to some beauracratic inefficiencies or something like that, the declaration of war got hung up in some office and never made it to the President's desk in time. I don't remember the details, but I'm sure they're easy to find.

ZakkWylde969
09-11-2003, 08:19 PM
Oh really a couple HOURS before they attacked? Well of course thats sufficient time to gather an army ready for a war... It nearly takes the police an hour to respond to calls here. And aren't military families just families with the dad happening to be in the Navy so technically it was inhabited by civilians?

mart_man00
09-11-2003, 08:50 PM
And aren't military families just families with the dad happening to be in the Navy so technically it was inhabited by civilians?
Who cares? Would you prefer our guys dead instead?

Get real, we didnt aim for a daycare center.

Thantos
09-11-2003, 09:01 PM
As I understand it:

Japan sent a declaration of war to their embassy before any bombing took place. This was of course encrypted and in Japanese. So in the time it took to decrypt and translate it the attack was over.
This isn't what really ........ed off. It was the fact that the whole time they were acting like they wanted to find a peaceful resolution to the tension between the US and Japan.

Of course since my mother wasn't even alive at the time I don't know for sure.


And aren't military families just families with the dad happening to be in the Navy so technically it was inhabited by civilians?
At the time it was the dad, now it could be either. However, military bases and "war" factories are considered to be "ok" targets even if they do include civilians. Its just one of the risks the people (or their parents) take.

novacain
09-11-2003, 09:59 PM
>>Japan sent a declaration of war to their embassy before any bombing took place.

A Japanese mini sub was sunk off Pearl Harbour days before it was attacked. This evidence of Japans intentions was ignored.

>>Every country has shamed itself at least once.

You have to remember and acknowledge your countries mistakes.

Here in Australia we remember more the 10,000 ANZAC's that lost horribly at Gallipoli than the few hundred who saved Australia from the 10,000 of Japanese at Kokoda in WW2.


Does the US remember its mistakes?

ie Does it stop or reduce the aid, including intrest free military loans, it sends Israel? (40% of all US aid goes to the 16 richest country in the world)

confuted
09-11-2003, 10:06 PM
Novacain, we're allied with Israel. That's why we send them aid. Without our aid, it's likely that the arab nations surrounding Israel would (once again) try to obliterate Israel, either through terrorism or straight out attack, like when Israel declared independence and in 1968.

I mean, sure, maybe you're anti-semetic and side with the arabs on this one, and would like to see Israel destroyed, but I disagree. Aid to Israel is one of the few things this country does right.

adrianxw
09-12-2003, 02:20 AM
>>> Oh really a couple HOURS before they attacked?

Nothing unusual about that.

>>> you're anti-semetic

Rolled out on que. Happens every time. Someone says they don't like seeing Palestinians throwing stones at the Israeli tanks smashing down their houses, "oh - you must be anti-semitic".

novacain
09-12-2003, 03:30 AM
>> I mean, sure, maybe you're anti-semetic and side with the arabs on this one, and would like to see Israel destroyed, but I disagree. Aid to Israel is one of the few things this country does right.<<

So a tax break if you send cash for Israel to buy arms with is all right.

Why is there not one if you send the aid to the starving in Africa?

Is that 'anti semetic'?

The US taxpayer is giving interest free loans to Israel on the condition they buy US arms. This has given Israel the second largest fleet of F18s outside the US.
Israel has nukes, chemical weapons and biological weapons.
For over thirty years it has been in violation of UN resolutions.
The only reason it is not in violation of more is because the US uses its veto to stop any investigation.
Check what the last use of the US veto was for.
Nah, I'll tell you. Stopping an investigation into Israel killing UN aid workers.

Are not they the exact same reasons the US used went it went to war with Iraq?

Were the UN aid workers 'anti semetic'?



By the way, what is 'anti semetic'?

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

I suggest you learn how to spell when you grow up.

Fountain
09-12-2003, 03:36 AM
Always happens. Talk about something and it always goes back to the middle east issue.

Ho-hum, WW2 could have been a very interesting thread. It is a fascinating/sad/joyful/painful etc subject.

:rolleyes:

adrianxw
09-12-2003, 04:30 AM
>>> always goes back to the middle east issue.

I know what you mean, but, the middle East issue was pretty much created by the second world war, and is one of the very few "parts" of the second world war that is still active.

Most people are to old now to relate directly to the war in Europe or the far East, however, poor, downtrodden and often destitute Palestinians can be seen on the TV every day being oppressed by Israeli armour/planes/helicopter gunships etc.

ZakkWylde969
09-12-2003, 05:05 AM
Well this thread IS off topic to the usual. I had a couple questions regarding the bombing of Pearl Harbor and it turned towards a totally different conflict.

adrianxw
09-12-2003, 05:54 AM
The topic of your post is "World War II". Since world wars have a habit of spanning more than just a local area, discussion of other aspects of WWII is inevitable.

However, as you believe it to have gone off topic, I'll close it, and you can start another thread more specific to Pearl Harbour, (but I can't guarantee it will stay on that topic either).

Govtcheez
09-12-2003, 08:51 AM
> Ghost Soldiers by Hampton Sides.

Just replying to say that this is a really good read.