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st1d
08-07-2003, 02:11 AM
Would you consider Linux? It seems to me that anytime a valuable feature is added to MS Windows, it's because someone else came up with the idea, and MS "borrowed" it.

adrianxw
08-07-2003, 02:48 AM
Can't answer. Don't have time to play with it at home. No customers ask for a Linux solution, but maybe one day one might, then sure, why not.

>>> anytime a valuable feature is added to MS Windows,

That's true of any OS, always has been.

st1d
08-07-2003, 02:58 AM
Very true.

Brian
08-07-2003, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by st1d
Would you consider Linux? It seems to me that anytime a valuable feature is added to MS Windows, it's because someone else came up with the idea, and MS "borrowed" it.

consider it? I would use it daily if it weren't for FreeBSD. I'm not a UNIX guru, but I'm learning, Linux was my first "unix". And I like it just as much as FreeBSD, except FreeBSD has a sort of inpenetrable charm to it.

Things I hate: The X Window System. It's ugly, old and needs to be replaced. GAIM, its the only usable (think: fonts) MSN client available for unix. and it sucks, not to mention it dies randomly for no apparent reason.

Govtcheez
08-07-2003, 06:27 AM
No, I heard Linux gives people herpes. I don't want herpes. Do you?

goran
08-07-2003, 07:28 AM
By the time I reach home, it is well into the evening. my system has become a piece of crap (because of lack of use). besides, windows hasn't given me any problem so far. i still live on win 98 !

Shogun
08-07-2003, 08:33 AM
I mostly use linux although I just started so I'm still learning it and I'm becoming very found of it gotta love the X terms...

RoD
08-07-2003, 09:45 AM
Mandrake 9.0

mart_man00
08-07-2003, 10:41 AM
The X Window System. It's ugly, old and needs to be replaced.
Yeah, i know. Try telling some gurus that, you will never hear the end of it.

Atleast there are some projets, i just wish there was some stable/decent ones out...

ZakkWylde969
08-07-2003, 11:38 AM
I finally got BSD put on my computer and I hate it. I guess I'm sticking with Windows since I'm the biggest newbie to 'nix systems.

ZerOrDie
08-07-2003, 11:41 AM
linux - > bsd means you will never go back

/me huggles freebsd

linux just feels like a cheap imitation once you spend any time using fbsd...

ygfperson
08-07-2003, 11:59 AM
What's the big difference?

nvoigt
08-07-2003, 12:46 PM
Windows is easy and has games. Exactly what I need when I come home. If I want to work... well, I go to work.

Shiro
08-07-2003, 12:55 PM
> Would you consider Linux?

On the current project at work I'm using Linux, since our customer has decided to put Linux in their device. I don't use it at home and I don't consider using it. Windows works fine for me.

mart_man00
08-07-2003, 04:47 PM
I finally got BSD put on my computer and I hate it. I guess I'm sticking with Windows since I'm the biggest newbie to 'nix systems.
Unless you have some serious work todo(like a server) it is kinf od pain for a desktop.

Redhat/Mandrake/Gentoo do make it pretty easy, but its not perfect since MS has more control. Its still a great home OS.


linux - > bsd means you will never go back
Not really.

It does have better networking and at times it seems like it has better people behind, but the number of linux people is huge. More stuff and more help. But some people really dont care about that...



linux just feels like a cheap imitation once you spend any time using fbsd...
What makes you say that?

I never really played with Free(only had it for a couple of days, But I had Net for awhile(I might bring it back actually), it was good but i didnt really notice much difference.

Ben_Robotics
08-07-2003, 06:03 PM
Linux Rules!!! it has everything that I need and I learn something new everytime I use it. Mind you, I havent seen too many errors and have not used Linux for very important projects or "real-time" applications. But so far for school projects, its been teaching me a lot!

zahid
08-09-2003, 02:05 AM
No doubt. I'm already done. There are lots of reason. Not going to argue about it.

codingmaster
08-09-2003, 02:44 AM
there are a lot of good s reasons to use Linux, cause it rocks...
there are so many tools, which are free available and programming on linux platforms is fun...

I'm using windows too, cause M$ has more than 95% of their operating systems in the house holds of normal computer users (damn m$, I hate them)... so I write stuff for windows and for linux

Linux is much better, but it seems hard to use it, because it's not as popular as windows.

My server is running OpenBSD - *BSD* ROCKS

BSD ROCKS MORE, WHEN ITS OPEN AND SECURE: http://www.openbsd.org/

On the other computers, I have Windows and Linux (Mandrake, Redhat, Gentoo)

FloatingPoint
08-09-2003, 03:01 AM
Quad boot here.

Win98, XP, RHL 8 and Mandrake 9 :D

Seriously tho, can someone make a copy of FreeBSD 4.8 for me?

mart_man00
08-09-2003, 11:20 AM
Why cant you just download it FloatingPoint?

DarkViper
08-09-2003, 11:52 AM
id lvoe to have a linux, however the fact it dont support alot of games kinda makes me steer away from it being my main.

mart_man00
08-09-2003, 11:59 AM
There are a couple of good emulators.

Wine is supposed to be good for games and Winex to be good for games. Winix costs, but there ways around it :D

DarkViper
08-09-2003, 12:01 PM
hehehe

Wine is apparently still very unstable when it coes to games and even small time windows applications (or so i hear).

this winex....this sounds interesting... ;)

Fountain
08-09-2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by codingmaster
there are a lot of good s reasons to use Linux, cause it rocks...
there are so many tools, which are free available and programming on linux platforms is fun...

I'm using windows too, cause M$ has more than 95% of their operating systems in the house holds of normal computer users (damn m$, I hate them)... so I write stuff for windows and for linux

Linux is much better, but it seems hard to use it, because it's not as popular as windows.

My server is running OpenBSD - *BSD* ROCKS

BSD ROCKS MORE, WHEN ITS OPEN AND SECURE: http://www.openbsd.org/

On the other computers, I have Windows and Linux (Mandrake, Redhat, Gentoo)


Jesus-again?

You seriously cant hate something that has got itself into 95% of households...what the hell were the alternatives?

Linux is hard to use because it is not as popular as windows--oh and it is not actually as good as windows -you forgot to add this bit.

How come I have to write this every few weeks. Let the people who get the job DONE on time with Windows use it. And if you have a bit more time for faffing around at home, by all means use Linux.

Fountain
08-09-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by codingmaster
there are a lot of good s reasons to use Linux, cause it rocks...
there are so many tools, which are free available and programming on linux platforms is fun...

I'm using windows too, cause M$ has more than 95% of their operating systems in the house holds of normal computer users (damn m$, I hate them)... so I write stuff for windows and for linux

Linux is much better, but it seems hard to use it, because it's not as popular as windows.

My server is running OpenBSD - *BSD* ROCKS

BSD ROCKS MORE, WHEN ITS OPEN AND SECURE: http://www.openbsd.org/

On the other computers, I have Windows and Linux (Mandrake, Redhat, Gentoo)








Jesus-again?

You seriously cant hate something that has got itself into 95% of households...what the hell were the alternatives?

Linux is hard to use because it is not as popular as windows--oh and it is not actually as good as windows -you forgot to add this bit.

How come I have to write this every few weeks. Let the people who get the job DONE on time with Windows use it. And if you have a bit more time for faffing around at home, by all means use Linux.

GSLR
08-09-2003, 04:47 PM
just installed it configured internet and am online with it..
I think this rulzzzzzzzzzzzzz
there is really so much you can do with linux , its great!!
Learning real stuff about your pc is kool but if you arnt interested in all the technical stuff ms is for you.

Brian
08-09-2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by Fountain

Linux is hard to use because it is not as popular as windows--oh and it is not actually as good as windows -you forgot to add this bit.

Linux is better than Windows. Linux makes the Windows NT, XP, 3.x, 95, 98 and ME kernels look like sour milk. GNU/Linux is a generally better, more secure, more responsive operating environment than Windows. GNU/Linux is free, meaning you can do anything with it. Rather than wait for a patch, if you know a thing or two about programming, you can open up the source code to that program, and fix that annoying bug. If your /home directory gets filled up. You can add a new hard drive and configure it so that /home is now your new hard drive and all your other stuff has been copied across. You download, install and configure any program you want on your computer, whilst youre not even there, from an SSH terminal at school for example.

You can check how your download is doing, or whether a process has finished yet. Whilst youre on holiday in Florida.

GNU/Linux gives you the power to do anything the hell you want. After all, it's your computer, not microsoft's.

What games? Ever heard of WineX? XFree86 may suck. But so does explorer, at least if your taskbar crashes in an X session, all your web browser windows don't go with it.

Servers? There's no question about it, Open source is the #1 way to go if you want to host something. The Apache project, the web's premier server, saved HTTP from Microsofts Proprietary web of doom.

Afraid of viruses, trojans, spyware and other nasties? Because everybody and his uncle uses Windows XP, nobody bothers writing these for Linux. And because of the user-based nature of linux, a virus, piece of spyware, or trojan that has infected one user, will not affect any other (unless you are root).

If, in the near future, you want to pay for every time you play your favourite game. Every time you watch a movie, listen to a song, read a book. Then stick with Microsoft. I dare you. But if you want freedom, away from the bane of Palladium, closed source systems trapping developers and consumers and all these other infectious Microsoft $$$$ups, just GNU it.

</preach>

confuted
08-09-2003, 07:48 PM
Most of us learned Windows as it came out, and already use it "fluently." Linux is a completely different ballpark, and it's hard to know where to start.

Plus, my Gateway OEM Soundblaster Live Value! card doesn't work with any versions of Linux or any of the drivers, because Gateway uses a slightly different version of the soundblaster chip. (I was told this by the OSS tech support guy)

Oh, and my video card works like crap with OpenGL. Tux Racer, a pretty simple game as far as 3d graphics go, ran at 2 or 3 frames per second, sometimes worse. I can play Morrowind smoothly.

Yes, I've used Linux. I have Mandrake 9.1 on my computer right now. I've also tried Redhat 8.0, and a few days ago, downloaded Knoppix at the suggestion of someone on this thread. Knoppix runs really slowly, but that's becaue it's off the CD, so I forgive that.

Brian, if you can fix the drivers for my soundcard and improve OpenGL's performance on my video card, and get this incorporated into Linux wherever it needs to get incorporated so it will work automatically, without me recompiling the kernel or anything like that, I'd be more likely to use Linux for more than a few hours a month.

mart_man00
08-09-2003, 08:39 PM
While recompiling the kernel isnt that bad man, its almost like the control panel.

We migh not be screwed with sound cards, its supposed to be like a Audigy. It may work one day. If you really want to, pay. OSS will work. Theres a free version, but you have to reset it every hour. But the point is it will work if you pay.

You might want to look into your vid card too, that sounds too funny to be right.



Like i said before the biggest problem with all the modern unix*s is the people.

You have people that go out of there way to make it hard for you. You have people that that thinks guis are evil and all people should completly master the art of assembly, even then your cheating in their eyes.

There the people that can code dam well, instead of actually doing there jobs(yes jobs, they wanted the responsibility) and makeing things alittle nice there poke fun of the guy that cant live on the command line.

You cant live on the command line, that is not for a desktop and never was. There is a place or it, but its not every where.

The only problem is the 'gurus', they can easily fix all of this but they choose not too. Its supposed to keep the group more pure.


As for the more productive part, only if you time your brakes when it crashes. It cost alot of money with all the crap ms pulls with companies. Open Office is just as good as MS Office. Kword is great too. For a basic (and i mean basic) desktop Linux is fine. Games on the other hand are evil, they all use API/DirectX.

Plus this will be a huge flame since Fountain, way to go....

Commander
08-09-2003, 10:47 PM
NOTHING beats linux...... the reason i use this damn windoze is because there;s some damn problems with my modem&ISP and i can only get on the internet quickly through windoze. for games, (i was told) wine or winix works great(though not perfect). GAIM is NOT the only MSN client for linux, try AMSN, supports filesharing and has a few cool features.

i can do 98% of my work through Linux and it works great. Never crashes(at least for me) and it's as secure as an OS can get. u can just download the softwares for it. if u have any probelms, u can just hop on a forum and be able to get the answers. the posibilities are endless!

and as of features of the two OSs as it was brought up quite a few times,"the question shouldn't be what can Linux do that windoze can't, but should be what can windoze do that Linux can't."

i still regret paying the extra 150 $ for the xp pro :mad:

FloatingPoint
08-10-2003, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by mart_man00
Why cant you just download it FloatingPoint?

I have access to this network here but they're using Win2000 to do the NAT works. After no more than 20 minutes of d/loading the ISO images, the server got reset. I've been trying for a few times, but always end up w/ the server being reset. Somebody told me that that's typical of having a Win2K do the 'masquerading' stuff.

FloatingPoint
08-10-2003, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by blackrat364

Oh, and my video card works like crap with OpenGL. Tux Racer, a pretty simple game as far as 3d graphics go, ran at 2 or 3 frames per second, sometimes worse. I can play Morrowind smoothly.


If you can already play Morrowind at good frame rates, then most likely there's nuthing wrong w/ your vid. It could be that Tuxracer needed a lil bit of tweaking(?).

The command glxinfo should say something like direct rendering support is on, and to get the frame rate readings, try glxgears.

Hope all is ok there.

codingmaster
08-10-2003, 04:51 AM
First to say, I totally agree with Brian :).



Jesus-again?


Yes....



You seriously cant hate something that has got itself into 95% of households...


NO, I CAN



what the hell were the alternatives?


Linux, BSD, Mac and others



Linux is hard to use


Don't talk, about stuff u don't know



because it is not as popular as windows


It's not as popular as windows, but it doesn't mean, that it's harder to use.
The most people think about the command line when they hear linux, but it's not true, there are lots of newbie distros out there, with very good working window managers, like KDE and Gnome.

But there are users, like me, who still prefer the command line :)



--oh and it is not actually as good as windows


That's absolutely not true. Look at:
http://www.mandrake.com
http://www.redhat.com
http://www.slackware.com
http://www.gentoo.org
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org

http://www.freebsd.org
http://www.openbsd.org
http://www.netbsd.org



-you forgot to add this bit.


I forgot nothing!!!



How come I have to write this every few weeks.

Damn, stop it.



Let the people who get the job DONE on time with Windows use it.


This thread is about considering Linux or not, and I wrote down, why it's good to use Linux. I don't say, that windows is the worst operating system. But people use windows and don't know about their policy and strategy on the computer market to kill all other companies. And you pay such a lot of money for Windows and there are still security bugs for months or years. Why not getting Linux or BSD, it's free and secure.



And if you have a bit more time for faffing around at home, by all means use Linux.

It's not your problem, what I do at home or else where and it doesn't matter, what I do in my free time.
So this is my opinion about Linux and don't tell everyone here crap, cause you don't like it or have some problems with computers, which run Linux or BSD.

confuted
08-10-2003, 12:51 PM
Ignoring the last post and moving on...

The Gateway version of SB Live won't work with OSS at all (with digital speakers, at least, which is what I think mine are...they're nice and I don't want to change). Here's the email I got from them.



enlightenedcouch@hotmail.com wrote:

> The following request for technical support was received:
> Name: Matt Hansen
> Company: none
> Title: n/a
> Address: 6782 East Fouch Road
> City: Traverse City State: MI Zip: 49684
> Phone: 231.946.3294 Fax:
> Email: enlightenedcouch@hotmail.com
> Origin: 24.236.240.148.gha.mi.chartermi.net
> OSS Version: 2.4.21
> Workstation Model: Gateway 1.9 GHz (intel) 256 mb RAM
> OS Version: Mandrake 9.1
> Audio Hardware: Soundblaster Live! Value
> ================================================== ========================
> Problem description:
> I initially installed OSS using Redhat 8.0 on the same system. However, I could
> not get it to function correctly, and decided to install Mandrake 9.1 in hopes of
> getting better luck. After installation of Mandrake 9.1, I installed OSS. The
> installation went smoothly, with no errors, however, when performing the audio
> self test, no sound came out of the speakers. This is the same thing that
> happened with Redhat 8.1. I am using KDE. The drivers are installed correctly,
> but the sound does not function. Thank you for any help that you are able to
> offer.
> ================================================== ========================

Hi,

What kind of speakers are you using?. Please try to connect Analog
speakers to the Gateway SBLive version because digital speakers don't
correctly with with the Gateway's OEM version of SBLive. We know that
there are some differences between the standard SBLive! card you get
from Compusa/etc and the Gateway's SBLive - however gateway doesn't
respond to our queries.


best regards
Dev Mazumdar


--
-----------------------------------------------------------
4Front Technologies
4035 Lafayette Place, Unit F, Culver City, CA 90232, USA.
Tel: (310) 202 8530 URL: www.opensound.com
Fax: (310) 202 0496 Email: info@opensound.com
-----------------------------------------------------------


I've read several places that OpenGL runs incredibly slowly on "bad" video cards, which is what I have. It's a GeForce 2 MX - not exactly good, but it can handle Morrowind and such, probably because my processor is fast enough to help it out.

As for the suggestions for fixing tuxracer - exactly what I was talking about ;) I don't have to tweak anything in Windows from the command prompt - including Apache. I don't have anything against the command prompt/terminal, but I don't want to use it ALL the time to do EVERYTHING when I'm just trying to get something in the GUI to work.

mart_man00
08-10-2003, 01:00 PM
blackrat364, digital speakers are buggy, but working. I think you might have to be brave and try the CVS. Justlinux had a guy talking about this a while ago(i was angry since i couldnt get sounds and this guy was going for perfection already), i think he did get it working.

By the way, are digital speakers that good? I havnt had a chance to check some out yet.

the whole opengl thing seems alittle weird under linux, not everything uses it. im sure there some people out there that can help you with it tho.

I know some on that couldnt het hardware acceleration working so he has his cpu doing the crunching, works well for him.

confuted
08-10-2003, 02:10 PM
>>try the CVS

What is the CVS?

>>digital speakers
They're pretty cool

mart_man00
08-10-2003, 02:13 PM
What is the CVS?
I guessing the emu10k1 one.

Like i said check out the other boards, they know this stuff.

confuted
08-10-2003, 02:26 PM
lol, I've posted this on several boards. Nobody's managed to solve it ;) Including justlinux. Oh well, I guess it really doesn't matter much. It works with Windows, which I use most of the time anyway.

Brian
08-10-2003, 03:20 PM
the command would be something along the lines of

modprobe emu10k1

on freebsd i think its
kldload sndemu10k1

(just look in the directory with the .ko's in it to find the real name)

slaveofthenet
08-10-2003, 03:48 PM
I had the same problem with Tux Racer until I got a new graphic card driver. I'm using a geforce2MX, the default linux drivers are alright for general use, just not for opengl. I installed the driver from nvidia and now I'm able to run Tux Racer and Enemy Territory at a nice FPS. Also, installing the driver was pretty easy, just exit out of X, sh nvidia-installer-xxx, click ok a few times, then edit a few lines in XF86Config.

LogicError
08-11-2003, 07:56 AM
No I wouldn't, I'm gonna stick with Windows.. 66.6% of the world use Windows operating systems, why bother even thinking about linux?

Brian
08-11-2003, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by LogicError
No I wouldn't, I'm gonna stick with Windows.. 66.6% of the world use Windows operating systems, why bother even thinking about linux?

Firstly, it's more like 99.6%. But your logic is stupid. AOL is the world's most popular ISP. Does that mean we should use AOL?

Govtcheez
08-11-2003, 08:02 AM
Because when you're trying to make money, it makes sense to be able to sell it to the largest group of people. Your AOL analogy fails in that sense.

FillYourBrain
08-11-2003, 08:05 AM
right, AOL vs Mindspring vs Roadrunner vs Earthlink vs whatever doesn't make much difference except for reliability and such. None of them prevent you from using a given software package with it.

FillYourBrain
08-11-2003, 08:07 AM
I think if you're willing to give up on using much of the popular software in favor of what is available in opensource then linux is a great way to go. I for one need to use what the masses use. Its a curse I guess. Much like the curse of the Cortes treasure plaguing the crew of the black pearl. :)

mart_man00
08-11-2003, 11:11 AM
As long as your not talking about games theres no real problem.

Most hardware works, but not alot of native games and most people would play with the wines that much.

Linux office can open up MS office stuff fine. Theres gui for the basics.

drdroid
08-11-2003, 12:16 PM
A little late in the game buuut... Slackware 9.0. As far as software goes theres something for everybody(as long as you have a pretty good internet connection) and everything(almost) is opensource/free... I'm subscribing to this magazine soon.. heh(linux magazine).. linux-mag.com... but theres an article about 3d enging coming along.. completely free and open source... someone made an mmo with it... and that free and open source as well.

mart_man00
08-11-2003, 01:18 PM
Instead of the engine id like to see a redisgn of X. Its still living in the 80s.

Its not really that slow(some one gave me a crash course on how things are loaded, it seems like a good system), but its not modern at all. Some basic API would be nice.

I wish all the programs/libraries would use OpenGL, then the devs would only have to make drivers for GL. It would have a video standard.

Plus OpenGL seems to be fairly popular.

I heard somethign about it would break the security model, but if your running games on a server you should be hacked, its not a problem.

ZerOrDie
08-11-2003, 02:31 PM
I heard somethign about it would break the security model, but if your running games on a server you should be hacked, its not a problem.


if you run x-windows on a server your a damn fool

Fountain
08-11-2003, 02:58 PM
found this (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9333)


and this (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/31804.html)


and this (http://www.computerwire.info/unigram.x/06418EBD2E28DBE480256D6E0038DAC8)


Now, this is really fun! (http://www.linuxsucks.com/TopSucks.htm)


Hehe (http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/user/view/cs_msg/12458)

http://www.mumbai-central.com/nukkad/jan2003/msg00461.html


See, I could go on for hours. My point to those boring $$$$s that pap on all day (especially at me) was that you should use whatever OS you wish to use.


So this is my opinion about Linux and don't tell everyone here crap, cause you don't like it or have some problems with computers, which run Linux or BSD.

If I was talking crap junior, you would be aware. I said nothing but the truth-ask 99.6% of the world (figures from Brian hehe)



Ignoring the last post and moving on...

Thanks blackrat-you are obviously like Brian and think MS are taking over the world. My prescription? Take 16 Stellas and get a life.

I still dont get why it seems (especially crappycoder?) that no one can appreciate the mastery it took to get a product into 95%of households. Jesus, none of you will ever succeed in business with your attitudes. You should be proud. (especially in the US!)



I think if you're willing to give up on using much of the popular software in favor of what is available in opensource then linux is a great way to go. I for one need to use what the masses use. Its a curse I guess. Much like the curse of the Cortes treasure plaguing the crew of the black pearl.


It is not a curse Bud, it is called being a normal person :)



Linux Rules!!! it has everything that I need and I learn something new everytime I use it. Mind you, I havent seen too many errors and have not used Linux for very important projects or "real-time" applications. But so far for school projects, its been teaching me a lot!

Rules what? Certainly not OS usage worldwide. Oh and definateley not the waves.

Bored now, the only reason I dont include you Brian is that

A) You are British
B) You are still off your head on some drug that Bill Gates gave you for saying he was trying to take over the world. Be realistic Brian and retract the world domination quote. Go on.