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Dalren
07-24-2003, 09:45 AM
First off I will start by saying that networking is the one computer topic I never really learned about, not sure why just never did.

Here is my situation, I basicly have a single thick cable that provides my house with phone, cable, digital conectionfor my alarm system, and most importantly my 100 mb/s internet connection. when the cable enters my house in the basement it is split and cable tv is sent to the cable jacks, phone to phone jacks, etc. The 'net connection is fed into what is an off the shelf netgear switch (FS 108) which then connects to all the network jacks in my house. This is a nice system because In theory all of my computers are networked together without having to do any of my own wiring (read wire hanging out windows or running across the hall). The problem is that the network traffic looks like internet traffic to zone alarm thus the computers can't be networked with zone alarm on. My question is what would be the best / easiest / cheapest way to allow the computers to be networked without having to rely on the windows built in firewall (shudder).

FillYourBrain
07-24-2003, 09:50 AM
I'm no networking expert myself but I do mine a bit differently. I have a single machine that is my server. It has two nics, one for internet, one for internal network. It essentially does the job of a router with DHCP etc. It would seem that with your setup there is no firewall between your network and the internet which is why zone alarm does this. I say, either do what I did or buy a router that has a firewall built in. My way is cheaper as hubs are very inexpensive.

FillYourBrain
07-24-2003, 09:51 AM
actually, if you already have a switch, you don't need a hub. use the switch internally.

Clyde
07-24-2003, 09:52 AM
Could he not buy a cheap single socket router with a firewall and then connect that to his switch?

RoD
07-24-2003, 09:53 AM
What version of ZA? Did u try the "setup ZA for home network" option?

FillYourBrain
07-24-2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by Clyde
Could he not buy a cheap single socket router with a firewall and then connect that to his switch? I imagine so. I don't know how much that would cost him though. If he were to do it the way I did, he wouldn't have to buy anything except maybe another network card. I think he's looking for something cheap.

Brian
07-24-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by Dalren
, I basicly have a single thick cable that provides my house with phone, cable, digital conectionfor my alarm system, and most importantly my 100 mb/s internet connection.

HUH? Is that a typo?

FillYourBrain
07-24-2003, 11:26 AM
I was guessing its an apartment complex with a LAN. So I just took his word as gospel.:D

edit:
that would be 100 mb/s LAN with an internet connection that is slower no doubt. I've seen dorms that have these type of set ups.

VirtualAce
07-24-2003, 11:30 AM
Not sure what you are after, but maybe a router would help. The cable modem (I'm assuming you have a cable connection to the net - I'm somewhat confused by your post) plugs into the WAN port and the computers plug into the other ports. This way each computer can use the cable modem as long as the router is on. Problem here is that each computer must have a 10/100 network card (I recommend LinkSys) in it with RJ45 cable connecting the card to the router.

The really good part is that the router already has a firewall (again LinkSys router) so there is little need for a firewall on each system. But if you insist on having a redundant firewall, I've used ZoneAlarm with LinkSys routers and they do not conflict. Each computer will be assigned its own IP and the router will have one as well - which is the gateway to the net.

As well each computer is hidden behind the router's IP, so you can't even as much as play a game over the net w/o specifically opening ports on the router, forwarding IPs, or changing the DMZ address.

Granted the more people that are accessing the NET on the LAN, the slower the access becomes. The only way to avoid this is a far more expensive and extensive setup.

If you want more information, let me know. I'm an A+ certified technician and work on this stuff quite a bit. Perhaps I could come up with a better solution if you clearly explained exactly what you need and why.

Xei
07-24-2003, 11:32 AM
You can still network the computers, even if you have ZoneAlarm. When using a switch your computers can still send and receive datagrams over the network, which is much faster than a network through a VPN over your internet connection(which it sounds like you are doing). Remember that if you are using WindowsXP then either all computers have to be Windows XP or have a patch installed before the network can be configured properly. You just need to configure ZoneAlarm to allow traffic to connect to your PC. ZoneAlarm also has security presets, and one of them should allow you to set up your network properly.

Remember: When networking you DO NOT use the computers internet-IP's, you use reserved IP's or the computer names.

VirtualAce
07-24-2003, 11:39 AM
Remember that if you are using WindowsXP then either all computers have to be Windows XP or have a patch installed before the network can be configured properly


You simply need to run the network wizard on each non-XP computer to set-up the network. Setup the network first on XP and follow the on-screen directions for the rest. Note that the network tables do not update very quick so clicking on My Network Connections may show faulty information.

To really test whether or not the LAN is setup, access each computer by Start->Run and typing:

\\<computer_name or IP>

and hitting enter.

Also you can Start->Run: cmd

ipconfig /all

which will show all IP information, including the router

tracert <desired IP or name>

which will show a trace from your IP to the desired IP.

If the net still does not work then you can do this:

ipconfig /release - releases all IPs
ipconfig /renew - attempts to renew all IPs

All of these 'DOS-like' commands should be run in full-screen mode or you will not see the results of ipconfig. Windows XP will close the window after ipconfig executes which will not allow you to see the info.

Windows 98SE and Windows XP will network together with no problems. I've not tried this on Windows 95 yet.

damonbrinkley
07-24-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Xei
..snip.. Remember that if you are using WindowsXP then either all computers have to be Windows XP or have a patch installed before the network can be configured properly. ..snip..

Umm, that couldn't be more wrong...... I've had PCs with XP setup in a Novell, NT, and Linux environment and it worked like a charm. Please explain.

damonbrinkley
07-24-2003, 11:51 AM
Dalren, could you please explain what type of internet connection you have? Is it cable, DSL, through a complex? That will help us help you.

Here's my setup.




INTERNET->Cable modem->Cable router w/ built in switch->PC1
|
->PC2


The cable router acts as NAT so that my PCs can access the Internet at the same.

Xei
07-24-2003, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by damonbrinkley
Umm, that couldn't be more wrong...... I've had PCs with XP setup in a Novell, NT, and Linux environment and it worked like a charm. Please explain.

Last time I set up a network where a Windows XP machine would act as a proxy for the others (all Win98 machines) so they could all have access to the internet, Windows XP prompted me to create a Diskette which would need to be installed on each machine before they would be able to interact with Windows XP. I'm guessing that they required the updates because XP uses a different NetBIOS than 9x machines. This is likely only specific to 9x machines, as there are many different ways of creating a network. I believe MSDN has this documented.

Here is a link:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/reskit/prcg_cnd_pqrs.asp?frame=true

damonbrinkley
07-24-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Xei
Last time I set up a network where a Windows XP machine would act as a proxy for the others (all Win98 machines) so they could all have access to the internet, Windows XP prompted me to create a Diskette which would need to be installed on each machine before they would be able to interact with Windows XP. I'm guessing that they required the updates because XP uses a different NetBIOS than 9x machines. This is likely only specific to 9x machines, as there are many different ways of creating a network. I believe MSDN has this documented.

You're talking about two completely different things. You're talking about setting up XP with ICS (internet connection sharing) for internal LAN PCs so they can access the Internet. That's is networking but that's not the end-all be-all of networking. Networking is just hooking up two PCs and having them communicate with each other. You can do that right out of the box with XP, Linux, 9x, etc. The diskette you created I believe was just used to set the TCP/IP settings to DHCP and use the XP machine as a gateway. I don't believe it had anything to do with updating the PCs. Your internet connection has absolutely nothing to do with Netbios either, it's all TCP/IP.

FillYourBrain
07-24-2003, 12:25 PM
I didn't need that diskette. Windows 98 and windows 2000 were both able to see the DHCP server and get a connection just fine from my XP server.

VirtualAce
07-24-2003, 04:38 PM
You're talking about two completely different things. You're talking about setting up XP with ICS (internet connection sharing) for internal LAN PCs so they can access the Internet. That's is networking but that's not the end-all be-all of networking. Networking is just hooking up two PCs and having them communicate with each other. You can do that right out of the box with XP, Linux, 9x, etc. The diskette you created I believe was just used to set the TCP/IP settings to DHCP and use the XP machine as a gateway. I don't believe it had anything to do with updating the PCs. Your internet connection has absolutely nothing to do with Netbios either, it's all TCP/IP.


It's quite obvious that few of us, including me, really understand what you want to do. So before this turns into a you do this I do this rant, let's start from square one. What do you want to do?

Dalren
07-25-2003, 09:01 AM
Thanks for the help guys, I wasn't expecting so many responses. Im going to try RoD suggestion and see if I can get Zone Alarm to work. And if not just go find a router with a built in firewall.

To answer the questions about my connection, it really is a 100 mbs connection, its not cable, or DSL, it is fiber straight to the house, so far my fastest single conection download was about 4.35 mB a second, it took longer for windows to write the file to the HD from the temp folder than it did to download the file.
here is the slashdot and washinton post articles that are based on the people that wired my neighborhood.


Slashdot Article (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/01/1417224&mode=thread&tid=95)

Washington Post Article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A16815-2002Aug30&notFound=true)

damonbrinkley
07-25-2003, 09:13 AM
Do you have fiber running into your PCs or is there some point where it's switched to copper? If it switches, what does it run into to switch to copper?

VirtualAce
07-25-2003, 11:48 AM
So you've got one of them new-fangled fiber optic neighborhoods I've read about? Cool.

A router would definitely help you and since you are fiber optic - there would be nearly 0 slow down.

Last night I played CFS2 online while my dad did something else online from his system. He was running 98 and mine was XP. No problems and no slow down and that was on a cable modem. So yours wouldn't even flinch with that kind of setup.

The beauty of the router is that you need not rely on one computer to be the 'server' for the LAN. You access the router through your system.

Clyde
07-25-2003, 03:24 PM
Does your bog standard router cope with a 100mb wan connection?